Salam Ayman,
QuoteThose proper names London, John, etc. do not speak the truth about the entity being named. They are just meaningless labels. So if you say "he is John in the heavens and the earth" this is meaningless nonsense. On the other hand, if John was the only man alive then you can say "he is the man in the heavens and the earth".
You have it backwards, friend.
QuoteQuote from: Arnab on Yesterday at 09:21:14 PM
A proper noun has two distinctive features: 1) it will name a specific [usually a one-of-a-kind] item, and 2) it will begin with a capital letter no matter where it occurs in a sentence.
QuoteThe above features are actually false and thus it is not surprising that you mistakenly think that "allah" is a proper name.
First of all, let me reiterate that I believe that Allah is a verb but it is also accepted as a proper noun. It is a verb because the root in the Semitic language is a verb and there is an ancient meaning there. It is also a proper noun because it is what we call the Creator.
Therefore the above statement is
not false. I advise you to actually verify a statement before saying as such.
Here are some links on basic English grammar on the differences between common nouns and proper nouns.
http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/commonnoun.htmhttp://www.chompchomp.com/terms/propernoun.htmI will just list those two. If these are not satisfactory, I suggest performing a search using your favorite search engine. This is basic grammar that I learned in elementary school.
Quote1) A proper name doesn't name a specific or usually one of a kind item. How many people do you know named Mohamed? How many towns are called London? I am sure several. In fact, usually a proper name is not a one of a kind item nor even of a related kind. I have seen a clothing store named London so it is not even a city. The name John is used in street lingo as a name for a prostitute client. Since it is a meangless label, a proper name can pretty much be used to label anything. On the other hand, a common noun is a universal concept.
Again, you need to research what you are typing to verify what you are saying is true.
Also, please present evidence that anything that I wrote in my previous post is a false or inaccurate statement about English grammar (or anything else for that matter).
Quote2) Your second observation may be true in English but it is false in many other languages such as Arabic where there are no caps.
Yes, there is a HUGE difference between Arabic and English, but since you brought up the subject and made the comparison I thought I would point out some facts about English grammar that you seemed to be confused about. But I think this has just confused matters.
Quote3) In reality, what determines if something is a proper name or not is the context. If the meaning of a word fits in the context then it is a common noun. On the other hand, since proper names are just labels, their meaning often results in nonsense in the context.
This is not correct in English grammar.
QuoteThe meaning of "the god/allah/al-ilah" fits in all the occurrences of the word "allah" in the great reading.
That is your opinion.
Quote4) As a result of (3) above proper names are not translated between languages. This is a huge point that you miss. Hence, traditionalists who like you argue that ?allah? is a proper name don?t translate the word ?allah? and render it as Allah in English. At least they are consistent. If you take ?allah? to be a proper name then, like London or John or Oreos, you can?t translate it. So by translating it as God or whatever, you are contradicting your assessment that it is a proper name.
There are many instances where proper nouns are translated into English differently. One example that comes to mind is Misr=Egypt, Yaqb=Jacob etc.
Let me clarify that there is no contradiction.
QuoteQuote from: Arnab on Yesterday at 09:21:14 PM
A common noun names general items. The important thing to remember is that common nouns are general names. Thus, they are not capitalized unless they begin a sentence or are part of a title. Proper nouns, those that name specific things, do require capitalization.
QuoteExactly, the important thing to remember is that common nouns are universal concepts.
No, not exactly.
QuoteQuote from: Arnab on Yesterday at 09:21:14 PM
Here are some examples of the differences between proper nouns and common nouns:
Tina offered Antonio one of her mother's homemade oatmeal cookies but only an Oreo would satisfy his sweet tooth.
cookies = common noun; Oreo = proper noun.
QuoteOreo is a meaningless label.
No, Oreo is a very specific cookie. You would not give someone who asked for an Oreo an oatmeal cookie.
QuoteSo only in the mind of Antonio it has a meaning and it has nothing to do with what the word Oreo means. If the maker changes the name from Oreo to ABC then Antonio would still continue to like them.
Most likely
QuoteThe label Oreo is irrelevant and it doesn?t communicate uniqueness or universal truth.
I think I know what you are trying to say (forgive me if I?m wrong). What I think you are trying to say is that while Arabic words have a literal and figurative meaning and an etymological history. While, on the contrary English words are sometimes ?made up? as in the case of the word ?Oreo.? Also, the word Oreo does not have any deeper meaning than being a cookie.
QuoteI hope that you are not saying that the word ?allah? is equally irrelevant and we can substitute anything such as ABC for it and still get the same effect.
Since Arabic operates under different grammatical rules than English does then the two cannot compare on this issue. So, no, that would not be correct in Arabic. Allah has been the same word through out the Semitic languages as I mentioned before.
QuoteQuote from: Arnab on Yesterday at 09:21:14 PM
Charlie had wanted an easy teacher for his composition class, but he got Mrs. Hacket, whose short temper and unreasonable demands made the semester a torture.
teacher = common noun; Mrs. Hacket = proper noun.
QuoteAgain, the name Hacket has nothing to do with communicating universal truth or uniqueness. I am sure that there are many nice teachers named Mrs. Hasket. It is meaningless as far as the context goes. This is why it would not be translated to whatever ?hacket? means in another language if you were to translate the sentence.
I think the fact that you are operating under this ?universal truth? assumption that is giving you the problem. This is not an English grammar concept: the nouns are either common or proper.
QuoteQuote from: Arnab on Yesterday at 09:21:14 PM
The only way it would make a difference is if someone believes there is some other god the Quran is talking about as being the god of the Heavens and the Earth? Who else would the word "god" be referring to?
QuoteThe great reading does talk about people believing in other gods. Otherwise, what is the point of witnessing that there is no god except the god?
That was exactly my point in the rhetorical question posed above. I?m going to stop quoting and commenting on the English grammar subject. I feel its run its course.
QuoteQuote from: Arnab on Yesterday at 09:21:14 PM
While we're on the subject, lets look at another word used to refer to God. [size=20]رب[/size] ra-ba. I cannot find this word with the definite article in front it either. I am interested to find out if someone else can find a verse with alif-lam in front of ra-ba.
QuoteThe word رب ?rab? (lord) is indeed used to talk about other lords throughout the great reading.
Can you please show me a verse.
QuotePS: You also missed the main point that Nadeem was trying to make with the fact that the "li" proposition in Arabic modifies the definite common nouns by removing the A from "AL". Sister Samia summarized it very well. I suggest that you read her summary since all your examples actually support Nadeem's main point (for example, "al-amr" would be "lilamr" with the A gone from the definite AL with the "li" proposition added, etc.). On the other hand, the "li" proposition doesn't remove an Alif if it was not part of the definite article.
I absolutely
did not miss Nadeem?s main point and I absolutely
was agreeing with
Nadeem at times in my post.
Please understand: You will find when I post a comment or reply that sometimes I will agree with what someone says (and explain why) and disagree with other things they said (and explain why).
But I will try to qualify statements with a phrase like ?I agree? or ?I disagree? in the future. I did not realize that this could be confusing. I simply thought it was obvious when I agreed with what someone said.
Perhaps this has lead to some misunderstandings. There are times that I am agreeing with you as well in this post and the last. So, please keep that in mind.
Also, as I wrote before, my original intention was to correct some of your misunderstandings of English grammar. It is probably not wise to compare the English and the Arabic. After all, they are completely different language types with different rules of grammar.
Ultimately this is only an intellectual exercise. I don?t believe that anyone will change their concept of God or how they live their lives based on whether the definite article is in front of God?s name.
Salam,
Arnab