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This man died...and returned..Heaven and Hell are real

Started by Fadhli, March 12, 2008, 06:55:37 AM

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Fadhli

Just youtubing around and found this.

This man died...and returned..Heaven and Hell are real

Listen at 7:05. He said about a river flowing beneath.... What do you guys think? Wasn't that a God sign?

Peace
The truth is, there is no truth...


Fadhli

Can i know why you say he's a fraud? He looks convincing to me. And i think it is hard to describe that experience in words. Imagine describing things that is not in this world. This could leads to different interpretations of it. Even if he's fraudulent, i don't see the purpose of it.

Peace  :D
The truth is, there is no truth...

jonny_k

Peace "fashli",
If the guy is a Christian and has their understandings ingrained in his brain then this is no suprise. NDE have shown that the brain switches to plesant scenarios, OF WHATEVER IT HAS STORED, and the person then experiences that. This all depends on what the person has experiences. It never happened that a person coming back from an near death experience ever brought an externally verifiable proof such as stating that comet x would cross earth at such and such degree angle or that an earthquake of the order of 5.7 would occur in location y, all of which would then be considered real evidence. GOD Bless!
[19:19] He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

Fadhli

Peace JK

Quote from: jonny_k on March 14, 2008, 02:24:47 PM
Peace "fashli",
If the guy is a Christian and has their understandings ingrained in his brain then this is no suprise. NDE have shown that the brain switches to plesant scenarios, OF WHATEVER IT HAS STORED, and the person then experiences that. This all depends on what the person has experiences.

I agree with you on this statement.

Quote from: jonny_k on March 14, 2008, 02:24:47 PM
It never happened that a person coming back from an near death experience ever brought an externally verifiable proof such as stating that comet x would cross earth at such and such degree angle or that an earthquake of the order of 5.7 would occur in location y, all of which would then be considered real evidence. GOD Bless!

But i beg to differ on this. Since a person had experienced the that kind of unknown feeling in his NDE. Why would he want to find any evidence like future prophecies/events that could prove he is right? From that man words, it clearly shows that he is awed by what he sees. Not skeptic. And really asks for God's mercy since he had saw the truth. So i guess it's natural to ask forgiveness rather than being somewhat arrogant with an intention to tell others that he is right. Remember about what Quran says about worldly desires. If what he sees is heaven, then he would automatically forget or don't care anymore about this worldly desires which includes finding proofs to tell to others. If it was me i would  :).

In the end i guess it's either to believe that NDE is illusion/imagination or the reality/truth. If you believe the latter surely you'd agree with me.  ;D

Peace  :handshake:
The truth is, there is no truth...

Tay

Peace Fadhli, all,

Thanks for the link - it was moving.
It's always nice to hear people's spiritual accounts. What it means or whether or not it's a sign is really unknowable. It did seem to me that this guy believed what he was saying, though.

Peace,
Tay
And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. [27:88]

jonny_k

Peace "Fadhli",
For anything to be true you have to present evidence. This is the most important thing of all otherwise everyone is right since Christans, Muslims(hadith followers), jews etc all make similar claims of loving GOD. BUT THOSE ARE JUST THAT, CLAIMS. Yet most of them commit idol worship in one form or another and that is the greatest sin of all. Messengers came with clear proof/evidence(bayaana) which others could compare with the real world and see if it was applicable. This is absolutely necessary otherwise the whole message remains a mere claim and vague.
Anyone can experience similar events under stres, magnetic ressonace, NDE inducing drugs, etc. It does not prove the paranormal at all ince there are perfectly natural explanations for such. To claim however that GOD communicated with one and gave a certain message/info without evidence would be arrogant. Infact thts what charlatans like Uri Geller, Peter Popoff and other frauds do. They all claim to have a direct contact wth GOD and they exploit people thereby. GOD Bless!
[19:19] He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

Tay

Peace Jonny,

QuoteFor anything to be true you have to present evidence.

Eyewitness testimony is enough evidence to convict a murderer to death. It's also enough to invoke God's curse according to 11:18. So, tell me, if you weren't behind this guy's 'eyes' when he experienced whatever he experienced, how can you say it's not true?

You can argue that it's not proven scientifically - and you would be right. But you can't say it's not true. Unless you have some evidence. Also, please provide some evidence that you're not a figment of my imagination.  ;)

Peace,
Tay
And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. [27:88]

Amin74

Salaam,

What I found most interesting about this mans experience is what he perceived as hell. in the clip he mentioned hell as being a void of anything or non-existence. This agrees completely with Al Quran when it says that even hell will not exist forever. I read an article, I believe by Edip Yuksel on this subject. I will have to find it again. He said that according to Al Quran hell is not eternal which debnunks the whole burning in hell eternally theory. He also said, which I agree with, that eternal damnation does not fit the concept of a just and fair God, as infinite punishment for a finite existence is not just. However, if hell itself is not eternal than those who are sent their would in the end simply cease to exist.

I find this more just than eternal punishment. If a man commits many large sins, perhaps repeted unforgivable idolatry and is sentenced to hell, invitably he, along with hell will cease to exist. For eternal punishment would be unfair. Further, it would also be unjust to not punish such a man while many others, who have tirelessly lived a righteous life of worshiping God and helping others have done so to avoid such punishment. What would be the purpose of this existence if evil deeds remained unpunished? The righteous would be equal to the evil.

It was also interesting how the man in the video described his feeling of being conscious of possible non-existence. He said that he wouldn't wish that feeling on the most evil person alive. In the end, I believe the most fitting punishment of the most evil people would be non-existence. They wouldn't suffer forever. Their only suffering would be the foreknowledge of later becoming non-existant. How horrible would it be for a conscious being to suddenly be faced with and aware of the impending and utter annialation of his consciousness? However, once his non-existence began, his suffering would cease and it would be as if he never was.

The hypocrites and idolaters will not burn in hell forever but instead simply cease to exist.

Peace and Justice to all
Comfort lost is opportunity gained.

OPF

It does seem strange. But I think our fear comes from losing consciousness but retaining the sense of time passing.