Was the Qur'an the Only Revelation That The Prophet Received From Allah

[dotty]

Please read my posts I too agree that GOD is the One who explains. God explain to prophet , Prophet explain to people

God explains to ALL mankind by way of the Quran.  You need to set it in your mind that the Quran is complete.  Anything not in the Quran God has given us the choice to use our brains and decide for ourselves... simple.  The only things that matter are detailed in the Quran.  Ask yourself why God would tell the prophet to explain it, then depend on humans to collect those explanations 200+ years later.

Peace,
dotty

[Albruni]

Peace "albruni",

JK- Yes BUT the Quran says that in A PARTICULAR CONTEXT WHICH CLEARLY REFERS TO PAST EVENTS. How acn Moses be a messenger now? If that is true then you hadithis followers should accept that Jesus, who according to you is still alive, is also a Prophet and a messenger still hence making Muhammad not the last of either and thus contradicting yourself.
As for me agreeing that Muhammad received other revelation from GOD that doesdnt mean GOD has MEANT THOSE for us. Those are logically only for his time OTHERWISE WHY DIDNT GOD PRESERVE THEM IN A SEPARATE PROTECTED SCRIPTURE OR EVEN INCLUDE THOSE IN THE QURAN? It is very easy for GOD to have done so and the fact that He didnt shows that it is of no significance to us. This is my basic qs to all sectarians. GOD Bless!

Salam Jonny,
If my father died it doesn?t mean that he is not my father , Though the Quran refers to past events it doesn?t mean that he will not be a messenger anymore... Of course we do agree Jesus was a messenger, is a messenger and will be remain as messenger ,Muhammad is the seal of Prophet so there are no more messenger but that doesn?t mean that a messenger before Muhammad will not be the messenger when he again come. Messenger is a person who comes with message from god since the religion is complete there is no need to bring any new message.
How can you say that those revelation are not meant for us It is protected in Scriptures (Hadhis), which god has done. Your basic qs are baseless. God Bless!

[ramzi]

Peace Albruni,

Ask yourself these questions....

How come the Islamic year is 354 days? Which is 11 days shorter than the solar year?

17:12
We appointed the night and the day as two signs. Then, We blotted out the sign of the night and made the sign of the day to see, so that you seek the bounty of your Lord and that you know the number of years and the reckoning. And We have clearly distinguished everything.

وَجَعَلْنَا اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ آيَتَيْنِ فَمَحَوْنَا آيَةَ اللَّيْلِ وَجَعَلْنَا آيَةَ النَّهَارِ مُبْصِرَةً لِتَبْتَغُواْ فَضْلاً مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَلِتَعْلَمُواْ عَدَدَ السِّنِينَ وَالْحِسَابَ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ فَصَّلْنَاهُ تَفْصِيلاً


Can Ramadan be in winter some years? (1996-1999)

And in the summer some years? (2008-2012)




Does the concept of different sects make sense? I believe they differ over who to follow? Sunnis idolize Muhammed, and the shiites do their 12 imams and the family of Muhammed.

Look at the state of the Islamic countries today!!?!?!?

No human rights,

Stone-age laws!

Racism!

Sexual Discrimintation!

Fighting between sunnis and shiites.

Shall I give you examples? I can cite examples that occur today, in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. I'm sure you are aware of them!

If muslims are indeed following the Straight Path, their state of living would by far exceed the excellence in Europe which is now one community. Working together to make better living conditions for their citizens.

Unfortunately, because Shaitan leads their (European Union) lives, they will cause their own destruction; like:

They do not pay Sadaqah (form of Zakat)

Giving homosexuals the rights to adopt kids.

Their corruption will come from inside their own community.





The Islamic counties' corruption has already started.

Hundreds of thousands are fleeing to Europe and States where they are treated like HUMAN BEINGS. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion.

I can go on and on.


Ask yourself those questions.





I hope you are not truly happy with the way things are running/going in Islamic countries these days, and especially the Arab counties.

The Straight Path is far from this.

The Straight Path does not ask us to choose what we follow (choose Sahih over Weak)

The Straight Path does not ask humans (scholars) to decide what we need to do

The Straight Path is detailed in the one Book of Guidance that we have.




I am not going to go into detail in the discussion because I know that if you open your mind you will come to the right conclusion!


Regards

Ramzi

[jonny_k]

Peace "albruni",

Salam Jonny,
If my father died it doesn?t mean that he is not my father , Though the Quran refers to past events it doesn?t mean that he will not be a messenger anymore... Of course we do agree Jesus was a messenger, is a messenger and will be remain as messenger ,Muhammad is the seal of Prophet so there are no more messenger but that doesn?t mean that a messenger before Muhammad will not be the messenger when he again come.[/u] Messenger is a person who comes with message from god since the religion is complete there is no need to bring any new message.
How can you say that those revelation are not meant for us It is protected in Scriptures (Hadhis), which god has done. Your basic qs are baseless. God Bless!

JK- The example of the title "father" is very different from the title "messenger". Muhammad wasnt even a messenger 24/7 as can be seen in 33:37. If he had been a messenger at tht point then Zeid mustve obeyed that statement but obviously it was not meant to be so.
ALSO dont you believe that Muhammad was the last messenger? Because here you are saying that messengers before Muhammad will be messengers when he they come again as in Jesus. So youve just spoken against one of the basic dogmas in hadith "islam".
LAST but not least if hadith are protected then there should be a COMPLETE scripture containing only sahih hadith preserved by GOD so we dont have to pick and choose. THAT IS NOT THE CASE as i can point out a bunch of absurd and scientifically inaccurate hadith from Sahih Bukhari and Muslim allegedly the two most authentic collections. GOD Bless!

[Albruni]

Peace Albruni,

Ask yourself these questions....

How come the Islamic year is 354 days? Which is 11 days shorter than the solar year?

17:12
We appointed the night and the day as two signs. Then, We blotted out the sign of the night and made the sign of the day to see, so that you seek the bounty of your Lord and that you know the number of years and the reckoning. And We have clearly distinguished everything.

وَجَعَلْنَا اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ آيَتَيْنِ فَمَحَوْنَا آيَةَ اللَّيْلِ وَجَعَلْنَا آيَةَ النَّهَارِ مُبْصِرَةً لِتَبْتَغُواْ فَضْلاً مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَلِتَعْلَمُواْ عَدَدَ السِّنِينَ وَالْحِسَابَ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ فَصَّلْنَاهُ تَفْصِيلاً


Can Ramadan be in winter some years? (1996-1999)

And in the summer some years? (2008-2012)

Peace Ramzi,

The following Quranic verse entails the use of the lunar calendar as the calendar to be followed by Muslims:

"He it is who appointed the sun a splendor and the moon a light and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning." (Surah10 Verse 5)

"They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs to make fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage." (Surah 2 Verse 189)

The number of months in each year as directed by Allah was to be 12 as shown in the following verse:

"Lo! The number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth." (Surah 9 Verse 36)

The Qur'an,states that time should be reckoned by the moon,Thus we do the same.

Moreover the solar year is not 365.25 days long but 365.2422 days long. This tiny extra fraction of .0078 days a year adds up to approximately three days every four centuries.On timescales of thousands of years, the Gregorian calendar falls behind the seasons drastically because the slowing down of the Earth's rotation makes each day slightly longer over time while the year maintains a more uniform duration. The equinox will occur earlier than now by a number of days approximately equal to [years into future/5000]^2. This is a problem that the Gregorian calendar shares with any rule-based calendar.

Does the concept of different sects make sense? I believe they differ over who to follow? Sunnis idolize Muhammed, and the shiites do their 12 imams and the family of Muhammed.

Look at the state of the Islamic countries today!!?!?!?

No human rights,

Stone-age laws!

Racism!

Sexual Discrimintation!

Fighting between sunnis and shiites.

Shall I give you examples? I can cite examples that occur today, in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. I'm sure you are aware of them!

If muslims are indeed following the Straight Path, their state of living would by far exceed the excellence in Europe which is now one community. Working together to make better living conditions for their citizens.

Unfortunately, because Shaitan leads their (European Union) lives, they will cause their own destruction; like:

They do not pay Sadaqah (form of Zakat)

Giving homosexuals the rights to adopt kids.

Their corruption will come from inside their own community.

The Islamic counties' corruption has already started.

Hundreds of thousands are fleeing to Europe and States where they are treated like HUMAN BEINGS. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion.

I can go on and on.


Ask yourself those questions.

I hope you are not truly happy with the way things are running/going in Islamic countries these days, and especially the Arab counties.

The Straight Path is far from this.

The Straight Path does not ask us to choose what we follow (choose Sahih over Weak)

The Straight Path does not ask humans (scholars) to decide what we need to do

The Straight Path is detailed in the one Book of Guidance that we have.

I am not going to go into detail in the discussion because I know that if you open your mind you will come to the right conclusion!

Well, What you have said is right..... But it doesn?t mean that following the hadhis has made this sects even the Quran alone followers have different of opinion ...Thing is that what we have follow is to decide be almighty god and as he have clearly mentioned to follow the word of god (Quran) and the explanation given to Quran by the messenger(Not by his own will but a separate revelation by god apart from Quran) (Hadhis)

(25:27)The day will come when the transgressor will bite his hands (in anguish) and say, "Alas, I wish I had followed the path with the messenger.

4:61 -- When it is said to them: "Come to what God hath revealed, and to the Apostle": Thou seest the Hypocrites avert their faces from thee in disgust.

4:150-151 -- Those who disbelieve in All?h and His Messengers, and desire to make separation between All?h and His Messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in some," desiring to adopt a way in between this and that? those are the unbelievers in truth; and We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

Ask yourself these questions

Do you want to make separation between Allaha and his messenger by saying you believe in Quran and disbelieve in Hadhis ?

and for your question the answer is :- Those who idolize Muhammad or following there own desire they are indeed in a wrong path and they will face hell.

I follow the word of god (Quran) and follow the teachings of the messenger of God (Hadhis) which is preserved in a scientific way.

"Allah did confer a great favour on the Believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs (Verses) of Allah, purifying them, instructing them in Scripture, and teaching them Wisdom. While before that they were in manifest error." [A'ale Imran 3:164].

May God Guide us in the right path...

[Albruni]

Peace "albruni",

JK- The example of the title "father" is very different from the title "messenger". Muhammad wasnt even a messenger 24/7 as can be seen in 33:37. If he had been a messenger at tht point then Zeid mustve obeyed that statement but obviously it was not meant to be so.
ALSO dont you believe that Muhammad was the last messenger? Because here you are saying that messengers before Muhammad will be messengers when he they come again as in Jesus. So youve just spoken against one of the basic dogmas in hadith "islam".
LAST but not least if hadith are protected then there should be a COMPLETE scripture containing only sahih hadith preserved by GOD so we dont have to pick and choose. THAT IS NOT THE CASE as i can point out a bunch of absurd and scientifically inaccurate hadith from Sahih Bukhari and Muslim allegedly the two most authentic collections. GOD Bless!

Salam Brother,

father is a person who is blessed with a child and as a human being is blessed with  prophet hood is a messenger.

33:37 being a messenger and humanbeing he did small mistakes which has been corrected by god - Its not that messengers will not do mistakes they did as all humanbeing but not major sins as they are protected by god otherwise there is no need of sending a human as a messenger, The messenger have no divine knowledge or they can do on there own, its god who teach them to deliver it to the mankind.

Not only Jesus all the messengers will remain messengers even in hereafter, Its a honor given by god to the messengers do believe that Muhammad was the last messenger as i stated before in my post and Jesus will also remain as a messenger but the difference is he will not deliver any new message as the religion is complete and there is no need to add in the religion.

Hadith - Its a way of preservation, if you only compile the truth then it will easy for anybody to add.
The scholars collected all the Hadith so that no body can blame that they have left some Hadith.

For the questions about the compilation of Quran you said you can prove with the  numerical pattern based on no.19 show me how its correct?

The Questions are :- Where does it say in the Quran that Surah Al Baqarah must come after Al Fatihah?
Where does it say in the Quran that Surah An Nas (Qulauzubirabinnas) must be the last Surah (chapter) in the Quran?
Where does it say in the Quran that ?alhamdulillahirabilalamin(01:01)? must come before ?Ar Rahman Ar Rahim(01:02)??
Where does it say in the Quran that there must be 114 Surah (Chapters) in the Quran?
Where does it say in the Quran that ?Qulhuwallahuahad (112:01) must come before ?Allahusamad(112:02)?

[ramzi]

Peace Albruni

Thanks for the reply!

Please read Layth's article on Calendars and Time. http://www.free-minds.org/articles/science/calendars.htm

Below is a summary of what has been explained above:

The year according to the Scripture is Luni-Solar (17:12, 10:5).

The months begin with the full moon (2:189, 36:39).

The solar year has 4 markers that can be measured (2 solstices, 2 equinoxes).

After a count of 12 lunar months, if a 13th full moon appears before the winter solstice, then such a month is to be ignored and counted as 'month zero'. This average occurrence of this extra month is 7 times every 19 solar years.

(I removed the part about Laylat AlQadr and Ramadhan because that is a different topic).

Ask yourself these questions

Do you want to make separation between Allaha and his messenger by saying you believe in Quran and disbelieve in Hadhis ?

Albruni,

I am not separating between God and His messenger in any way. Unfortunately, you still believe that Hadiths are the words of our messenger. They are not.

When someone disproves a Hadith to you... or indeed shows that it contradicts Quran, you will not see it, because you have the firm belief that the hadiths are the true word of your messenger and can not be wrong. If you open your eyes a little and see that the true words of your messenger are in the Quran, you will feel no discomfort at all disregarding the words of Bukhary and others.

Now, Hadiths do make things easy for us, some say it compliments the quran.... (Pillars of Islam, and Pillars of Iyman)...... they answer many of our questions, teach us the right way to do things to gain hasanat and so on.  For example,

3an Abi Hurairah (Raddiyah Allahu 3anhu), Kkal, kkala Rassolu Allahi (Sallallaahu 3alaihi Wassallam):
"Min 7osni Islami AlMar2u, tarkuhu ma la ya3neeh."
Rawahu Attirmeethi

I will try and translate this to: "A good submitter, ignores what is of no concern to him/her"

Nice words, and good advice. But does that mean ALL are right?

What about when we get to the lashings for adultey?

1: Surah Number: 24, Ayah Number: 2
You shall lash the fornicatress and the fornicator each with a hundred lashes. In the religion of Allah, let no tenderness for them seize you if you believe in Allah and the Last Day; and let their punishment be witnessed by a party of believers.

الزَّانِيَةُ وَالزَّانِي فَاجْلِدُوا كُلَّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا مِئَةَ جَلْدَةٍ وَلَا تَأْخُذْكُم بِهِمَا رَأْفَةٌ فِي دِينِ اللَّهِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَلْيَشْهَدْ عَذَابَهُمَا طَائِفَةٌ مِّنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ


Ask your friends, or indeed your imam at your mosque regarding the Hadith and Sunnah about this topic....... his story will probably go along these lines....


"Ahh yes, but what about the married adulterer and the unmarried adulterer? Their punishments cannot be the same? An unmarried man/woman is usually young in the prime of their life, controlled by hormones and emotions,..... is their punishment similar to the one who is in a lawful marriage, and has a responsisbility to his/her partner?

That is why we need Hadith/Sunnah to explain this... (You cannot understand Quran without them). You lash the unmarried, and stone to death the married. just like how our prophet did.

And what about the method of lashing? Do you use steel? Wood? Leather? Rope?

How do you lash? 2 metres away? Pivoting from your shoulder? Or the arm must be still and only the elbow pivots?

How must the adulterer stand? or must he sit? or must he be face down?

The answers to all these are in Hadith/Sunnah......."

Now this is changing God's words

God did not differentiate between married and unmarried adulterer's? Or did he? Am I missing a verse or something? (Honest question, no sarcasm)

Why stop there? Here is one............ The person who lashes must be facing Ka'aba when lashing.

What is wrong with that?


The answer to all those questions is common sense........ God will not tell you every single detail.... (the classic example of how do you build a computer if you say the Quran is complete)....

You will not lash with a pillow, nor with burning metal.... It is not common sense to lash till the person is one inch from his life after the 8th lash. It is for the public to see and therefore to shame the person and to strike fear in the others when seeing the punishment of adultery!


Now, the sunni today will say, but this argument is pointless, no one stones to death an adulterer. But it is in the books. If you sit down for 30 minutes you can disprove it, and show that there is NO WAY our prophet did this, as it would have contradicted the Quran!

Now who is disrespecting the prophet? Me, who does not want to acknowledge Hadith, or the people who wrote them in the first place?

Brother Albruni,

if you disprove one hadith, you have to disregard them all. It is not for you to CHOOSE what to follow nor for a scholar or imam to choose for you!

It is hard, and I am struggling. but I ask God for patience and to show me the Straight Path.

I suggest reading the articles on this website.

Or another suggestion....... Out of all the discussions you have on this topic, take the arguments against you that you find valid and worth answering, and use them against your imam/friend/scholar. and see if the answers you get satisfy you.



I think the main difference between me and you is that:

I believe I can understand Quran myself, by reading, cross referencing, looking up roots and applying to the whole Quran to see if it fits.

Now I can see some problems arising in the future, like:

Who is Abu Lahab? Who are Ashaab AlFeel?

But does that mean I will have to go back to Hadith to find the answer? Or is this History that I might have to study? Or are they symbols?

I wil tackle each problem as it comes along. Asking God for patience and hoping He doesn;t wish otherwise.


On a final note. I strongly suggest reading...... http://www.free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm

Hopefully, this will paint the widest picture possible for you, and you might wake up a little.



Special thanks to the authors of all articles on Free Minds, I am not agreeing that everything is 100%, but I appreciate the effort that has gone into them! They certainly make me think, and make me want to seek more knowledge!

Regards

Ramzi

[Nun de plume]

For the questions about the compilation of Quran you said you can prove with the  numerical pattern based on no.19 show me how its correct?

The Questions are :- Where does it say in the Quran that Surah Al Baqarah must come after Al Fatihah?
Where does it say in the Quran that Surah An Nas (Qulauzubirabinnas) must be the last Surah (chapter) in the Quran?
Where does it say in the Quran that ?alhamdulillahirabilalamin(01:01)? must come before ?Ar Rahman Ar Rahim(01:02)??
Where does it say in the Quran that there must be 114 Surah (Chapters) in the Quran?
Where does it say in the Quran that ?Qulhuwallahuahad (112:01) must come before ?Allahusamad(112:02)?

The Quran even/odd or binary (0/1) structure cannot be replicated by man or machine -- move, delete, or change one chapter, verse, etc., and it falls apart and uses checksums same as computer systems to ensure the message arrives intact, in order, and uncorrupted with exactly 114 chapters and 6236 verses including all of chapter 9:1-129...

Quran - 89:3

WaalshshafAAi waalwatri
And/by the even, and the odd.

60 Even verses = 30 even-even + 30 odd-even   

54 Odd verses = 27 odd-odd + 27 even-odd   

Surah   #Verses       S+V    57 Even   57 Odd    

1............7............8............8...........
2..........286..........288..........288...........
3..........200..........203.....................203
4..........176..........180..........180...........
5..........120..........125.....................125
6..........165..........171.....................171
7..........206..........213.....................213
8...........75...........83......................83
9..........129..........138..........138...........
10.........109..........119.....................119
11.........123..........134..........134...........
12.........111..........123.....................123
13..........43...........56...........56...........
14..........52...........66...........66...........
15..........99..........114..........114...........
16.........128..........144..........144...........
17.........111..........128..........128...........
18.........110..........128..........128...........
19..........98..........117.....................117
20.........135..........155.....................155
21.........112..........133.....................133
22..........78..........100..........100...........
23.........118..........141.....................141
24..........64...........88...........88...........
25..........77..........102..........102...........
26.........227..........253.....................253
27..........93..........120..........120...........
28..........88..........116..........116...........
29..........69...........98...........98...........
30..........60...........90...........90...........
31..........34...........65......................65
32..........30...........62...........62..........
33..........73..........106..........106..........
34..........54...........88...........88..........
35..........45...........80...........80..........
36..........83..........119.....................119
37.........182..........219.....................219
38..........88..........126..........126...........
39..........75..........114..........114..........
40..........85..........125.....................125
41..........54...........95......................95
42..........53...........95......................95
43..........89..........132..........132...........
44..........59..........103.....................103
45..........37...........82...........82...........
46..........35...........81......................81
47..........38...........85......................85
48..........29...........77......................77
49..........18...........67......................67
50..........45...........95......................95
51..........60..........111.....................111
52..........49..........101.....................101
53..........62..........115.....................115
54..........55..........109.....................109
55..........78..........133.....................133
56..........96..........152..........152...........
57..........29...........86...........86...........
                     
1-57...................6757.....3126......3631 <--------1st checksum 1st half
6757 3126 3631 = 19 x 35564803349

58..........22...........80...........80..........
59..........24...........83......................83
60..........13...........73......................73
61..........14...........75......................75
62..........11...........73......................73
63..........11...........74...........74..........
64..........18...........82...........82..........
65..........12...........77......................77
66..........12...........78...........78..........
67..........30...........97......................97
68..........52..........120..........120..........
69..........52..........121.....................121
70..........44..........114..........114..........
71..........28...........99......................99
72..........28..........100..........100..........
73..........20...........93......................93
74..........56..........130..........130..........
75..........40..........115.....................115
76..........31..........107.....................107
77..........50..........127.....................127
78..........40..........118..........118..........
79..........46..........125.....................125
80..........42..........122..........122..........
81..........29..........110..........110..........
82..........19..........101.....................101
83..........36..........119.....................119
84..........25..........109.....................109
85..........22..........107.....................107
86..........17..........103.....................103
87..........19..........106..........106..........
88..........26..........114..........114..........
89..........30..........119.....................119
90..........20..........110..........110..........
91..........15..........106..........106..........
92..........21..........113.....................113
93..........11..........104..........104..........
94...........8..........102..........102..........
95...........8..........103.....................103
96..........19..........115.....................115
97...........5..........102..........102..........
98...........8..........106..........106..........
99...........8..........107.....................107
100.........11..........111.....................111
101.........11..........112..........112..........
102..........8..........110..........110..........
103..........3..........106..........106..........
104..........9..........113.....................113
105..........5..........110..........110..........
106..........4..........110..........110..........
107..........7..........114..........114..........
108..........3..........111.....................111
109..........6..........115.....................115
110..........3..........113.....................113
111..........5..........116..........116..........
112..........4..........116..........116..........
113..........5..........118..........118..........
114..........6..........120..........120..........

58-114............6034.......3110.......2924 <-------- middle checksum 2nd half
3110  6034  2924 = 19 x 16371596996


Totals 1-114

Surah... #Verses... S+V... 57 Even... 57 Odd
1.............7............8............8.......... .
114..........6..........120.........120..........

6555.......6236.....12791...6236.....6555 <-------- last checksum totals 

6236 6555 12791 = 19 x 328245026989

6555 = 19 x 345

12791 is a prime number as is 19 which makes the Quran structure unique.

There appears to be a similar even/odd binary structure for each individual chapter with number of words as well which I'll need to investigate further although the above should be simple and sufficient enough as proof.


Peace

[Albruni]

The Quran even/odd or binary (0/1) structure cannot be replicated by man or machine -- move, delete, or change one chapter, verse, etc., and it falls apart and uses checksums same as computer systems to ensure the message arrives intact, in order, and uncorrupted with exactly 114 chapters and 6236 verses including all of chapter 9:1-129...

Quran - 89:3

WaalshshafAAi waalwatri
And/by the even, and the odd.

60 Even verses = 30 even-even + 30 odd-even   

54 Odd verses = 27 odd-odd + 27 even-odd   

Surah   #Verses       S+V    57 Even   57 Odd    

1............7............8............8...........
2..........286..........288..........288...........
3..........200..........203.....................203
4..........176..........180..........180...........
5..........120..........125.....................125
6..........165..........171.....................171
7..........206..........213.....................213
8...........75...........83......................83
9..........129..........138..........138...........
10.........109..........119.....................119
11.........123..........134..........134...........
12.........111..........123.....................123
13..........43...........56...........56...........
14..........52...........66...........66...........
15..........99..........114..........114...........
16.........128..........144..........144...........
17.........111..........128..........128...........
18.........110..........128..........128...........
19..........98..........117.....................117
20.........135..........155.....................155
21.........112..........133.....................133
22..........78..........100..........100...........
23.........118..........141.....................141
24..........64...........88...........88...........
25..........77..........102..........102...........
26.........227..........253.....................253
27..........93..........120..........120...........
28..........88..........116..........116...........
29..........69...........98...........98...........
30..........60...........90...........90...........
31..........34...........65......................65
32..........30...........62...........62..........
33..........73..........106..........106..........
34..........54...........88...........88..........
35..........45...........80...........80..........
36..........83..........119.....................119
37.........182..........219.....................219
38..........88..........126..........126...........
39..........75..........114..........114..........
40..........85..........125.....................125
41..........54...........95......................95
42..........53...........95......................95
43..........89..........132..........132...........
44..........59..........103.....................103
45..........37...........82...........82...........
46..........35...........81......................81
47..........38...........85......................85
48..........29...........77......................77
49..........18...........67......................67
50..........45...........95......................95
51..........60..........111.....................111
52..........49..........101.....................101
53..........62..........115.....................115
54..........55..........109.....................109
55..........78..........133.....................133
56..........96..........152..........152...........
57..........29...........86...........86...........
                     
1-57...................6757.....3126......3631 <--------1st checksum 1st half
6757 3126 3631 = 19 x 35564803349

58..........22...........80...........80..........
59..........24...........83......................83
60..........13...........73......................73
61..........14...........75......................75
62..........11...........73......................73
63..........11...........74...........74..........
64..........18...........82...........82..........
65..........12...........77......................77
66..........12...........78...........78..........
67..........30...........97......................97
68..........52..........120..........120..........
69..........52..........121.....................121
70..........44..........114..........114..........
71..........28...........99......................99
72..........28..........100..........100..........
73..........20...........93......................93
74..........56..........130..........130..........
75..........40..........115.....................115
76..........31..........107.....................107
77..........50..........127.....................127
78..........40..........118..........118..........
79..........46..........125.....................125
80..........42..........122..........122..........
81..........29..........110..........110..........
82..........19..........101.....................101
83..........36..........119.....................119
84..........25..........109.....................109
85..........22..........107.....................107
86..........17..........103.....................103
87..........19..........106..........106..........
88..........26..........114..........114..........
89..........30..........119.....................119
90..........20..........110..........110..........
91..........15..........106..........106..........
92..........21..........113.....................113
93..........11..........104..........104..........
94...........8..........102..........102..........
95...........8..........103.....................103
96..........19..........115.....................115
97...........5..........102..........102..........
98...........8..........106..........106..........
99...........8..........107.....................107
100.........11..........111.....................111
101.........11..........112..........112..........
102..........8..........110..........110..........
103..........3..........106..........106..........
104..........9..........113.....................113
105..........5..........110..........110..........
106..........4..........110..........110..........
107..........7..........114..........114..........
108..........3..........111.....................111
109..........6..........115.....................115
110..........3..........113.....................113
111..........5..........116..........116..........
112..........4..........116..........116..........
113..........5..........118..........118..........
114..........6..........120..........120..........

58-114............6034.......3110.......2924 <-------- middle checksum 2nd half
3110  6034  2924 = 19 x 16371596996


Totals 1-114

Surah... #Verses... S+V... 57 Even... 57 Odd
1.............7............8............8.......... .
114..........6..........120.........120..........

6555.......6236.....12791...6236.....6555 <-------- last checksum totals 

6236 6555 12791 = 19 x 328245026989

6555 = 19 x 345

12791 is a prime number as is 19 which makes the Quran structure unique.

There appears to be a similar even/odd binary structure for each individual chapter with number of words as well which I'll need to investigate further although the above should be simple and sufficient enough as proof.

Salam Brother,

To prove the Quran is God word it doesnt need any Checksums method there are various signs of god in quran which prove that the quran is god word and if there is a checksum method then why the propet not explained it?

Even the calcualation what you have done is not logical.

1.Why to want to divide the Quran in 2 parts each 57 - Where is the proof to do so in quran ?

2.Is this a right way to calculate ?

E.G : If you have barrowed money from me

Day   Morning      Noon      Night
1   10      20      30   
2   10      20      30   
3   10      20      30

Total   30      60      90

and if I ask you to pay 306090 will it be fare ? Will anybody accept? Is this the right way to  trust Quran.

3.You have mention 6555 = 19 x 345 what about other numbers 6757/19? 3126/19? 3631/19? 3110/19? 6034/19? 2924/19? 6236/19? 12791/19? why you haven?t taken those numbers?Is it  because it will not divisible by 19 ,please be fare on your part.

4. Moreover when you enter the S+V value you keep changing the position to first ,middle and last why to want to change the S+V position - its just because you want to bring the result as you desire?

5.Are you going to follow the same structure i.e. take the chapter divide in half ,sum the odd and even number etc.,I strongly dought you will not because you can't - It means your are following your own desire or blind following.

4:150-151 -- Those who disbelieve in All?h and His Messengers, and desire to make separation between All?h and His Messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in some," desiring to adopt a way in between this and that? those are the unbelievers in truth; and We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

Salam.

[Nun de plume]

Salam Albruni,

To prove the Quran is God word it doesnt need any Checksums method there are various signs of god in quran which prove that the quran is god word and if there is a checksum method then why the propet not explained it?

Quran?s structure is one proof (arrangement of ayats) and was explained by reciting it as such. Similar to the big bang creation of universe and things we've yet to discover.

Even the calcualation what you have done is not logical.

Sure it?s logical ? BINARY, EVEN/ODD, TRUE/FALSE, IF THEN ELSE.

That is the key difference between humans and animals -- we have the capacity to see it...

Binary Code In The Quran
http://muslim-defence.com/Documents/BinaryCodeWorksheet.xlsx

1.Why to want to divide the Quran in 2 parts each 57 - Where is the proof to do so in quran ?

Here's a nice summary of the balance and symmetry...
http://www.simetrikkitap.com/subject1.pdf

2.Is this a right way to calculate ?

E.G : If you have barrowed money from me

Day   Morning      Noon      Night
1   10      20      30   
2   10      20      30   
3   10      20      30

Total   30      60      90

and if I ask you to pay 306090 will it be fare ? Will anybody accept? Is this the right way to  trust Quran.

No idea why you posted the above, this is about Quran?s structure not finance.

3.You have mention 6555 = 19 x 345 what about other numbers 6757/19? 3126/19? 3631/19? 3110/19? 6034/19? 2924/19? 6236/19? 12791/19? why you haven?t taken those numbers?Is it  because it will not divisible by 19 ,please be fare on your part.

That?s how checksums work and NOT everything has to divisible by 19. When you type a post; algorithms do a checksum, send data along with checksum, and after arrival at the other end the checksum is computed/compared to see if the message arrived error free.

That is basic summary which encryption works a similar way with a ?key? to unlock data.

Do you see the perfect symmetry?
It?s like looking at a beautifully constructed building to house the words?

Surah... #Verses... S+V... 57 Even... 57 Odd

1............7...............8............8.............
2..........286..........288..........288..........
3..........200..........203.....................20 3
....
110..........3..........113.....................11 3
111..........5..........116..........116..........
112..........4..........116..........116..........
113..........5..........118..........118..........
114..........6..........120..........120..........

6555.......6236....12791........6236......6555

17:88 Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.

Perhaps I?ll ask the guys who run Blue Jinn/Gene to try and produce a similar structure?

4. Moreover when you enter the S+V value you keep changing the position to first ,middle and last why to want to change the S+V position - its just because you want to bring the result as you desire?

No, look closely its 1st checksum 1st, mid checksum 2nd, last checksum 3rd ? perfect logic!

6757 3126 3631 = 19 x 35564803349

3110  6034 2924 = 19 x 16371596996

6236 6555 12791 = 19 x 328245026989

5.Are you going to follow the same structure i.e. take the chapter divide in half ,sum the odd and even number etc.,I strongly dought you will not because you can't - It means your are following your own desire or blind following.

I?m still working on it (i.e. the pattern for each individual chapter and number of words).

4:150-151 -- Those who disbelieve in All?h and His Messengers, and desire to make separation between All?h and His Messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in some," desiring to adopt a way in between this and that? those are the unbelievers in truth; and We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

Why post this verse?

It pertains to those who believe Quran missing verses ?idle tales? and goat nonsense.


Peace