Question: What is the message in Q22:15?

[loli]

Salam All,

Had anyone here had a glimps of what is the message tried to be conveyed in 22:15

22:15 Who was thinking/assuming that God will never/not give him victory/aid in the present world and the end (other life), so he should extend/spread with a motive/connection/rope to the sky/space, then he should cut (it) off/sever , so he should look/see does his plot/conspiracy/deceit eliminate (E) what angers/enrages (him)?

Message from Ibn Kathir exegesis is more on God helping the messenger in present world and the hereafter..and also suggest to anybdy who thinks that God will do otherwise, to hang himself from the roof
Ref: http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=22&tid=33837

Surely this is the favorite interpretation by Christian missionaries.

Do anybody have an opinion on what is the message in 22:15.. reference from the Quran would help.

salam

[huruf]

Verb sbb means to blaspheme, curse, revile. I wonder whether in fact the "him" is indeed the messenger or any person, and if the meaning of sabab might not be that, and then cut himself off and see if that has in fact solved anything for him.

With the general meaning being that we may get as angry with reality as we want, still we hae no power, since all power belong to God.

This is just a humble attempt. I don't affirm or propose anything.

Salaam

[Katara]

salaam,

  1) 22:15, in my view, is addressing people "who wordships God on edge," (22:11) .. They would turn away from belief when test is given to them... and so they are the ones who are at loss.

  2) These people asks help from other than God. (22:12-13) ...because,

  3) (22:15) ..they have no faith in God.



Hence,

     in 22:15, it says they should find all kinds of way (including asking God, and, also includes deceit): motives, connection (i take it to mean "network": it can be friends, brain's neutron connections, jin and bomoh, etc..),

find those means even in the sky or space (alien's help?)..mana2 tempat that you can...


and then "cut (it) off" --> let whatever be, be? Now it's the time to sit and observe how things work..



Why? Because,
(22:16) this is how God shows evidences/signs.

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* "what angers/enrages (him)" could means, whatever issues that he has no faith in God to help him.

[Katara]

I have doubt that

someone who have no faith in God
would try the hang-method. 

salaam.

[pvb]

I use this site:

http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=22&Ayah=0&Language=2&TranslationBook=3

Someone added Mohammad in ( ), I think it should just be believer in ( ).

[22:14]
Lo! Allah causeth those who believe and do good works to enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow. Lo! Allah doth what He intendeth.

[22:15]
Whoso is wont to think (through envy) that Allah will not give him (Muhammad) victory in the world and the Hereafter (and is enraged at the thought of his victory), let him stretch a rope up to the roof (of his dwelling), and let him hang himself. Then let him see whether his strategy dispelleth that whereat he rageth!.

I have to laugh at this verse though:

[22:16]
Thus We reveal it as plain revelations, and verily Allah guideth whom He will.

[loli]

Verb sbb means to blaspheme, curse, revile. I wonder whether in fact the "him" is indeed the messenger or any person, and if the meaning of sabab might not be that, and then cut himself off and see if that has in fact solved anything for him.

With the general meaning being that we may get as angry with reality as we want, still we hae no power, since all power belong to God.

This is just a humble attempt. I don't affirm or propose anything.

Salaam

salam huruf,

thanx for replying..can you care to explain how blaspheme or curese or revile fits in to root SBB in the verse. Just want to have inputs on all sides here

Thanx
salam

[loli]

salaam,

  1) 22:15, in my view, is addressing people "who wordships God on edge," (22:11) .. They would turn away from belief when test is given to them... and so they are the ones who are at loss.

  2) These people asks help from other than God. (22:12-13) ...because,

  3) (22:15) ..they have no faith in God.

Hence,

     in 22:15, it says they should find all kinds of way (including asking God, and, also includes deceit): motives, connection (i take it to mean "network": it can be friends, brain's neutron connections, jin and bomoh, etc..),

find those means even in the sky or space (alien's help?)..mana2 tempat that you can...


and then "cut (it) off" --> let whatever be, be? Now it's the time to sit and observe how things work..

Why? Because,
(22:16) this is how God shows evidences/signs.

-------------

* "what angers/enrages (him)" could means, whatever issues that he has no faith in God to help him.

Salam Katara,

although there are a lot of allegorical meaning of words in your..i find your interpretation goes well in the spirit of the Quran..and i also find that your interpretation have some similarities with Muhammad Asad's translation/interpretation.

Thank you..

any more input ppl?

salam

[Jack]

Peace,

Good question(s), Thank you.

The address is definitely mankind/annaas (see 22:11).

22:15 to me is us being lost without God.

Remember victory is promised for the believers (30:47) and God defends the believers (22:38).

I find the translations rather puzzling. FM version is excellent.



22:15    Whosoever thinks that God will not grant him victory in this world and the Hereafter, then let him extend his request to the heavens, then let him stop and see whether this action has removed his obstacles.




The key part of the phrase is:

falyamdud bisababin ila alssamai thumma liyaqtaAA falyanthur hal yuthhibanna kayduhu ma yagheethu

Sababin is is translated horribly (by some translators) as rope. While Al-Quran uses habal as rope. See: 3:103, 20:66, 26:44, 111:5