Author Topic: Ron Paul against our right to health care...  (Read 11711 times)

IronSky

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Re: Ron Paul against our right to health care...
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2008, 01:59:47 PM »
Peace to all,

Lily, heres some of Ron Pauls actual beliefs about health care, if you look past the rhetoric and one liners of videos you will se that he actually has a very well thought out plan that will end up providing more, better, and cheaper health care for everyone,  read some of this and see if it will help you make up your mind.

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/topic.php?id=22

Kurt

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Re: Ron Paul against our right to health care...
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2008, 02:05:46 PM »
Peace lily,

How does Kucinich propose the cost of free health care be offset?
As far as I know, most nations that offer free health care also take 50% of your income. Is it really free? How does God view that?

And how do you view Ron Paul's suggestions as any different than the current policy?

 :peace:

We have mostly free healthcare in the UK..... tax is certainly not 50% here!

Daud-19

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Re: Ron Paul against our right to health care...
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2008, 02:20:04 PM »
Peace Tay,

I learned of Ron Paul's healthcare beliefs through House M.D.'s post titiled "Ron Paul on Larry King Live (unaired)". You will find it within this same section, Discuss Latest News/Events. In the short video, Ron Paul states without hesitation that he does not believe that healthcare is a right. The "evidence" is there. Thanks for asking. 

Peace,
lf


I think THIS is the real telling sign... and the smoking gun about how many more people will DIE due to the lack
of health care in this country...

So if you vote for him be warned, when you see your neighbor dying because no hospitial will take them...
at least I didn't feel guilty when my neighbor died, if you vote for Ron Paul you may very well be the one
feeling the pain....
I bear witness that Rashad Kalifa is the Messenger of the Covenant

lilyfleur

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Re: Ron Paul against our right to health care...
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2008, 02:35:04 PM »
Peace to all,

Lily, heres some of Ron Pauls actual beliefs about health care, if you look past the rhetoric and one liners of videos you will se that he actually has a very well thought out plan that will end up providing more, better, and cheaper health care for everyone,  read some of this and see if it will help you make up your mind.

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/topic.php?id=22

Kurt

Peace Kurt,

Thanks for sharing the information. I appreciate your assistance however, I have already made up my mind. I've heard quite enough of Paul's "actual beliefs" about healthcare.

Again, he states that "healthcare is not a right". I can't force anyone to understand the error in that statement.   

Remember too that he is a doctor. Surely there are many people in the healthcare industry that may need to take pay cuts if we move to a universal system. I am confident that they see Kucinich's single-payer system not from a place of service to mankind but from a potential shrinking of their wallets. Do you see how big medicine, big pharmaceuticals and such are very against what I believe God would want for us and very much for a capitalist medical establishment system? A system that sometimes allows our fellow human beings to die because they can't pay the doctor and the hospital.

Healthcare is a right. It is necessary in a truly democratic society plain and simple. If I am wrong, if the Quran states emphatically that it's ok to let people die if they can't pay, that it's ok to not help your brothers or sisters with failing health because they are poor, please eluminate me.

Kurt, Michigan is coming up. You seem to be a conscientious person. Why do you prefer Paul over Kucinich? Is it his radical view of government? His fiery willingness to buck the system? I respect that. But sometimes a patient, peaceful approach is best. Isn't it always really?

Lobster

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Re: Ron Paul against our right to health care...
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2008, 02:45:21 PM »
Peace everyone,

I just watched the Larry King (unaired) piece with Ron Paul that House M.D. posted. Tell me, do you think that God would approve of us charging people money to save their lives? Of course not. This guy is a selfish jerk if you ask me. Seriously, what is it people love about him? Kucinich wants us out of Iraq just as much if not more and yet he believes that health care is a right. Isn't it? Of course it is. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is our duty as humans to help others, this clearly includes providing medical care. Come on!!!!

Peace,
lf

Health care is not a right.
He says it much better than I could:
http://www.bdt.com/pages/Peikoff.html
`What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us.` - Emerson

'Phoenix! You are in Hot water, maybe you should change your name to Lobster.' - Khalil

lilyfleur

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Re: Ron Paul against our right to health care...
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2008, 02:54:04 PM »
Health care is not a right.
He says it much better than I could:
http://www.bdt.com/pages/Peikoff.html

Peace Phoenix,

From your link:

"Now our only rights, the American viewpoint continues, are the rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness. That's all. According to the Founding Fathers, we are not born with a right to a trip to Disneyland, or a meal at Mcdonald's, or a kidney dialysis (nor with the 18th-century equivalent of these things). We have certain specific rights -- and only these."

Tell me, how do you live, have freedom, own property and pursue happiness if your bed-ridden or dead? And in one sentence include a right to Disneyland, McDonald's and then kidney dialysis! Seriously, as if they're equivalent. That's as far as I needed to read in the article. Oh and because this guy against Clinton's plan says it's not a right it isn't. 

 :nope:

Peace,
lf

Lobster

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Re: Ron Paul against our right to health care...
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2008, 05:38:57 PM »
Peace and thank you for replying ;)
Quote
Tell me, how do you live, have freedom, own property and pursue happiness if your bed-ridden or dead? And in one sentence include a right to Disneyland, McDonald's and then kidney dialysis! Seriously, as if they're equivalent. That's as far as I needed to read in the article. Oh and because this guy against Clinton's plan says it's not a right it isn't.
Please read the whole article.
Anyway, here's the deal.
1. Welfare is charity. When you are sick and other people pay your bills, you are accepting charity from them. There is nothing wrong with accepting charity, but when it comes to government welfare programs, the money you are getting is stolen. People are forced to give up their money. The government doesn't make money out of thin air, it forcefully takes them from people who have worked hard to earn it.
2. Most kinds of health care problems are caused by our individual actions. Why should people live unhealthy lives and then make other people pay for their bypass surgery or liver transplant or whatever? And the knowledge that healthcare is "free" makes people more irresponsible - "I don't have to make the right choices because if I screw up the government will help me." Why should I pay the cost of rehab for a drug addict? I didn't make his choices for him.
And finally, if the government didn't steal, people wouldn't be so desperate to hold on to their money, and would be more willing to give to charity.
3. When the government pays for things, people don't care how much it costs (they're not paying for it.) More and more expensive technologies make their way into hospitals and the government has to raise taxes to pay for it.
 Why can't I just keep the money I earn, and spend it anyway I want, maybe have some FREEDOM in that regard? And if I were responsible, I would spend it wisely and make sure I saved money for emergencies. I don't want the government making decisions for me.
4. Just because the government isn't paying for health care doesn't mean people can't afford to pay it.
Free health care isn't actually free. It is the people who are paying for it. And most of that money comes from the middle class. If they were allowed to keep that insane amount of money that the government steals from them, I'm sure they could pay for their expenses. And even those who cannot would get by on VOLUNTARY acts of charity.
In countries where the people actually can't afford to pay their bills, the government can't either.
5. Health care IS like a free trip to disneyland in the sense that in both cases it involves OTHERS giving to you.
Health care is a favor, not a right.
You can't say "because i'm a human I deserve other people's money." You don't.
`What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us.` - Emerson

'Phoenix! You are in Hot water, maybe you should change your name to Lobster.' - Khalil

Peace

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Re: Ron Paul against our right to health care...
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2008, 06:19:34 PM »
The less involved the government, the more involved the people. We don't need a government to force people into saving lives, we each naturally help others on our own. We distrust our fellow human beings, so we turn to the government to enforce rules. There is no need for a government that intervenes in everyone's business. Without government people would naturally help others. Do you need a government to force you to save a life? Or would you do it on your own?
A path without a heart is never enjoyable. You have to work hard even to take it. On the other hand, a path with heart is easy; it does not make you work at liking it

lilyfleur

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Re: Ron Paul against our right to health care...
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2008, 08:34:15 PM »
Peace again brother Phoenix,

 :wow I don't know where to begin here. What I do think and what I tried to state is that healthcare is a fundamental human right (imho). It is very much a moral issue. The problem lies with medicine becoming a business rather than what it really is and should be. People who are skilled at caring for others and sometimes even saving a life. I can refer to you several websites that elaborate on the specifics of a universal healthcare system, but you're intelligent enough to find them if you choose. My point is this, there are people in our country who are denied proper healthcare because of their inability to pay for it. My question is this, if you have the ability, the God-given talent to save a human life, would God approve of you not doing so because the person in need of your assistance could not afford to give you money in exchange for doing so?

I don't care to debate welfare and charity and people not taking care of themselves. My question has nothing to do with those things. They are different subjects. Honestly, I don't need any other comments on the matter. My intent was to cause people to think about this matter in terms of the Quran and how it would direct us. 

I know in my heart of hearts that God would definitely not approve of a person with the skills to save anothers life allowing another person to die because they couldn't give them money to do so. For that reason I see healthcare as a right, not a privelege. Thankfully there are many, many wonderful medical professionals out in the world providing healthcare to individuals with not a thought toward profiting financially from it. If you can't see that our medical system is in need of a major overhaul you've not yet had reason to understand. God-willing you'll never need to.

Peace lil' bro,
Melanie

lilyfleur

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Re: Ron Paul against our right to health care...
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2008, 08:39:34 PM »
The less involved the government, the more involved the people. We don't need a government to force people into saving lives, we each naturally help others on our own. We distrust our fellow human beings, so we turn to the government to enforce rules. There is no need for a government that intervenes in everyone's business. Without government people would naturally help others. Do you need a government to force you to save a life? Or would you do it on your own?

Peace Peace,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Peace and love,
lilyfleur