Quote from: Onur on December 31, 2007, 12:44:40 AM
There is a problem in Quran's verses 4:11-12. 4:11-12 specify the rules of inheritance in the absence of a will. The contradiction is that when a man dies leaving three daughters, one mother, one father and one wife, the sum of shares that Quran gives exceed 1 and hence not enough wealth would exist to carry out Quran`s command.
Conclusion: All attempts to find a solution fail. Contradiction remains.
Please either show that my reasoning is wrong or the translation of verses is wrong or propose another solution with a Quranic ground.
Thank you
Peace Onur, Samia et al who participated on this thread.
After pondering over the verses it finally became clear and all the calculations add up perfectly with no need for the work around with children/siblings shares e.g. only daughter gets 1/2 and 5 sons get remaining 1/2 was a mistake although the few things we did get right especially the kalala definition which I'll open a different thread and list all the combinations. There is too much mockery on the net and all the sites and translations are horrible, contradicting, with not many willing to even discuss this topic or admit there is a mistake in their translations or interpretations.
One of the issues has to do with ولد walad child/son.
It can also mean ولد waladun child/born or offspring.
http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm Waw-Lam-Dal = to beget, give birth.
Likewise we did have correct إخوة ikh'watun brothers/siblings (at least one male present) and الكلالة al-kalālati (fatherless spouseless)
Here are the verses which if followed literally will give precise amounts with no excess or shortfall.
4:11 يوصيكم directs you الله The God في in أولادكم your children للذكر to the male مثل like حظ share الأنثيين the two (feminine) فإن so if كن be نساء females فوق above اثنتين two (feminine) فلهن so for them ثلثا two thirds ما what ترك left وإن and if كانت she was واحدة one فلها so for her النصف the half ولأبويه and for their parents لكل to each واحد one منهما from them السدس the sixth مما from what ترك left إن if كان is له to person ولد walad/son فإن so if لم not يكن is له to person ولد waladun child/born وورثه and heirs أبواه person?s parents (if only parents) فلأمه so to his mother الثلث the third فإن so if كان is له to person إخوة ikh'watun brothers/siblings (at least one male present) فلأمه so to his mother السدس the sixth من from بعد after وصية a will يوصي have made بها in it أو or دين judgment آباؤكم your parents وأبناؤكم and your children لا not تدرون you know أيهم which of them أقرب closer لكم to you نفعا benefit فريضة obligation من from الله The God إن indeed الله The God كان is عليما Knowing حكيما Wise
4:12 ولكم and for you نصف half ما what ترك left أزواجكم your spouse?s إن if لم not يكن is لهن for them ولد waladun child/born فإن so if كان is لهن for them ولد walad/son فلكم so for you الربع the fourth مما from what تركن they left من from بعد after وصية a will يوصين they made بها in it أو or دين judgment ولهن and for them الربع the fourth مما from what تركتم you left إن if لم not يكن is لكم to you ولد waladun child/born فإن so if كان is لكم to you ولد walad/son فلهن so for them الثمن the eight مما from what تركتم you left من from بعد after وصية a will توصون you made بها in it أو or دين judgment وإن and if كان is رجل a man يورث inherited كلالة kalālatan (fatherless spouseless) أو or امرأة woman وله and has أخ a brother أو or أخت sister فلكل so for each واحد one منهما from them السدس the sixth فإن so if كانوا they were أكثر more من from ذلك that فه so they مشركاء partners في in الثلث the third من from بعد after وصية a will يوصى is recommended بها in it أو or دين judgment غير not مضار harmful وصية a will من from الله The God والله and The God عليم Knowing حليم Forbearing
4:176 يستفتونك they seek your ruling قل say الله The God يفتيكم gives you a ruling في in الكلالة al-kalālati (fatherless spouseless) إن if امرؤ a person هلك died ليس is not له to that person ولد waladun child/born وله and has أخت sister فلها so for her نصف half ما what ترك left وهو and he يرثها inherits it إن if لم not يكن is لها to her ولد waladun child/born فإن so if كانتا were اثنتين two (feminine) فلهما so to them الثلثان the two thirds مما from what ترك left وإن and if كانوا they were إخوة ikh'watun brothers/siblings رجالا men ونساء and females فللذكر so to the male مثل like حظ share الأنثيين the two (feminine) يبين clarifies الله The God لكم to you أن lest تضلوا you stray والله and The God بكل in every شيء a thing عليم Knowing Careful attention is to see the kalala 4:11 with no son; 4:12 kalala with son; 4:176 kalala no child/born
Here is the answer for the example case above:
3 daughters, mother, father, wife4:11 فإن so if كن be نساء females فوق above اثنتين two (feminine) فلهن so for them ثلثا two thirds 2/3 three daughters or 2/9 each
4:11 ولأبويه and for their parents لكل to each واحد one منهما from them السدس the sixth مما from what ترك left إن if كان is له to person ولد walad/sonNo son, mother and father are variable. Likewise wife is variable since conditions below are not met either:
4:12 ولهن and for them الربع the fourth مما from what تركتم you left إن if لم not يكن is لكم to you ولد waladun child/born فإن so if كان is لكم to you ولد walad/son فلهن so for them الثمن the eight2/3 (2/9 each 3 daughters) + 1/3 (1/9 mother, 1/9 father, 1/9 wife) = 1Here are a few of the different kalala cases ...
4:11 kalala fatherless spouseless no son (sibling/s variable)mother, 1 daughter, sister/s : 1/4 1/2 1/4
mother, 1 daughter, brother/s: 1/4 1/2 1/4
mother, 1 daughter, sister/s, brother/s: 1/6 1/2 1/3 siblings share equally
4:12 kalala fatherless spouseless has sonmother, son/s, sister : 1/6 2/3 1/6
mother, son/s, brother: 1/6 2/3 1/6
mother, son/s, sisters: 1/6 1/2 1/3
mother, son/s, brothers:1/6 1/2 1/3
mother, son/s, sister/s, brother/s: 1/6 1/2 1/3 siblings share equally
4:176 kalala fatherless spouseless no child/bornsister/s, brother/s: 2:1 ratio male to female
mother, sister/s, brother/s: 1/6 5/6 2:1 ratio
mother, 1 sister : 1/2 1/2
mother, 2 sisters: 1/3 2/3
mother, 3 sisters: 1/4 3/4 (unstated so divide equally)
