Author Topic: ATTN Arnold Yasin - Question regarding the nature of Allah  (Read 5562 times)


nimnimak_11

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Re: ATTN Arnold Yasin - Question regarding the nature of Allah
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2007, 03:09:22 PM »
Peace Arnold

Do I have you premission to print you first answer to amuslim?

Arnold Yasin

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Re: ATTN Arnold Yasin - Question regarding the nature of Allah
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2007, 03:18:00 PM »
Salaam Niminimak,

For your own use you can print them of course. When it comes from spreading I believe it is better until I have finished my Quran Tafseer and the book "Phases of the Universe" as then the whole thoughtline is explained.

nimnimak_11

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Re: ATTN Arnold Yasin - Question regarding the nature of Allah
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2007, 07:39:46 AM »
Thanks Arnold

I prefer to read on paper then PC screen.

I won't spread it but i intend to show it to my dad after i have read it.

Arnold Yasin

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Re: ATTN Arnold Yasin - Question regarding the nature of Allah
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2007, 07:50:28 AM »
I can also email you the PDF versions of my articles if needed, just PM me.

amuslim

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Re: ATTN Arnold Yasin - Question regarding the nature of Allah
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2007, 12:19:08 PM »
Peace Arnold,

Thank you for understanding my yearn for the truth.  Your explanations of the Quran make a lot of sense even to so called athiests, or better, deist.  I have a few things that are tattering in my skull.  I do not want you to feel as if I rush you, I can wait a week or a month if you are too busy, I appreciate the help.

1. When Allah says that he took a promise with all the prophets regarding Muhammad, was this prior to this life?  Howed that work?

2. What exactly is Salat?  I see your definition on it on your messages here, but do you think there is a literal prayer?  If not, what is Wudu for then?  Also, if we are to take out traditions, why even do wudu?  I know that it also states that God wants us to be clean, so I can understand the reasons for wudu for that reason in particular.  There are also the psychological reasons that many Muslims talk about as it changes your state of mind.  What is your opinion on this?

3. Is there are a real literal qiblah in your opinion?  Could the qiblah (focal point) just mean where your thoughts and intentions are directed (ie Allah) at?  I know this may go against your concept of not worshipping God, but I believe that your reasoning for that was just that Islams MAIN reason was not for worship?

4. Why does Quran talk about being "deaf, dumb, and blind" like the animals?  Is it because they operate on instinct while we operate on intellect (or at least should)?

5. I asked this in the other thread but I wasnt exactly sure on the answer.  When animals enter the next life, are their own personal nafs there as well or is that just for the humans?  Do they evolve to a higher state of being or do they just stay at that level?  Also the trees, bacteria, etc.

6. Do we get anything out of worshipping God?  I know we shouldnt think that way, but Id just like to know if there are benefits to doing so?

Ive also been pondering about your talk on Jesus again.  Im not sure if you mentioned it in your articles (I read it but it has so much information, thats a good thing :) , but couldn't also when God says "He could have chosen anyone" regarding the Son of God, isnt that a refute again against Jesus being a Virgin Birth?  I was wondering to myself, "God knows that Christians believe he is of a Virgin birth, so why doesn't he out right say it isnt so?", when I was reading your message on how the quran mentions about "Fathers, sons, and brethen" deal when it talks of the prophets.  Today it hit me regarding the refutation on Jesus being the Son of God, and I think its a clear stance against it.

Thanks again!

Off topic: Bit of a personal question, but were you born into an arabic speaking family or did you just learn arabic (classical) on your own?

Peace
[16:79]Do they not see the birds committed to fly in the atmosphere of the sky? No-one holds them up in the air except Allah. This should be (sufficient) proof for people who believe.

Arnold Yasin

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Re: ATTN Arnold Yasin - Question regarding the nature of Allah
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2007, 03:47:27 AM »
Salaam amuslim,

It is no problem, and sometimes your questions were already answered by other great scholars as Muhammed Ali, Muhammed Asad, Dr.Shabbir, G.A.Parwez and so on, so I just quote them when convenient.

1. When Allah says that he took a promise with all the prophets regarding Muhammad, was this prior to this life?  Howed that work?

Muhammed Ali:

http://www.ahmadiyya.org/english-quran/ch003-123.pdf

Please see his commentary on page 6-7 on verse 3:80-81.


2. What exactly is Salat?  I see your definition on it on your messages here, but do you think there is a literal prayer?  If not, what is Wudu for then?  Also, if we are to take out traditions, why even do wudu?  I know that it also states that God wants us to be clean, so I can understand the reasons for wudu for that reason in particular.  There are also the psychological reasons that many Muslims talk about as it changes your state of mind.  What is your opinion on this?

I do not believe it is prayer.As said before, I do not believe God intervenes in the Universe as He does not change His Kalimat/Decrees and none can make Him alter His words [6:114, 3:139,17:77, 33:38, 33:62, 35:43, 40:85, 48:23]. Many of the verses that seem God intervening are in reality talking about the working of His Laws in the Universe. As far as I have understood is that God only intervenes through communication with Mankind, as I believe for example the people of Lot were destroyed by the surrounding nations who were ordered by God to do so, that Sodom (means burned in Hebrew) and Ghomorra (means buried) were destroyed by war is confirmed by discoveries made in the 70's as it revealed that Darb al-Bhar and Numeri were burned and buried after being attacked by armies and these are the only 2 cities that coincide with the story of Lot.

So God does not answer prayers through intervention. What we do see though is something other. For example the Quran mentions people praying for peace or food, and how does the Quran answer, by telling us Muslims to protect these people and feed the poor. So it are HUMANS who answer the prayers of other humans. God wants us to be a self-sufficient species just as the Universe and nature is self-sufficient.

For example:

Prayer for help:
4:75 ..... Defenseless men, women, and children are being oppressed and
crying, "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are
oppressors, and raise for us protectors and helpers."

Answer:
4:75 What has happened to you that you do not fight in the cause of
God?

See also:
http://www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/kt/kt_17.htm

A simple prayer can work as a psychological reminder for yourself as seen in the Quran with the prayers of the Prophets who call out to God and He answers through communication/Wahi or they understood their goal through verbalizing the wish or need, but a prayer as form of worship as a completely different goal: personal salvation.

The concept for the need of spirituality and prayer is a psychological reaction to the chaos on earth and the feeling of being not connected to God. This need to feel connected with God comes from that the Quranic System is not present on Earth and so this emptiness is filled with a self-imposed ritual. This is how the elite and priest-classes subdued the masses and kept them busy with personal salvation and the pursuit of personal satisifaction of their inner need.

In this way people were not busy with understanding the Quranic message and creating its system.

This is also directly what the Quran warns us for:

107:1 Have you seen him who proclaims allegiance to the Divine
System, but denies it in action? [53:33, 75:32-33, 95:7. Takzeeb = To
give lie = Deny in practice = Reject in daily life]
107:2 Indeed, he is the one who repels the orphan, the widow, the
helpless, the one in a lonely state. [89:10, 69:34]
107:3 And urges not the feeding of the needy. And participates not in
helping those who have lost their jobs, whose businesses have stalled,
and whose hard earned income is insufficient to meet their basic needs.
107:4 Ah, woe to the praying ones!
107:5 Those who know not what their Salat is meant to be.
107:6 They only want to be seen and praised. [9:54. They go through
the motions of prayer and keep announcing it]
107:7 And, with all this, they hinder the flow of sustenance (by
hoarding). [Ma'n = Running water. Mu’eein = Source of sustenance with
plenty of fresh water springs. 23:50]


The people are not busy with creating a System where the WHOLE of Humanity is fed, they are busy with praying and rituals and personal salvation. In verse 4 Salat is used as worship prayer, but in verse 5 we are pointed it out that the true Salat is the feeding of the poor and taking care of all human needs.

I believe Salat means to follow the whole System of the Quran just as animals follow their instinct (24:41), we must our instinct given in the Quran. It also means to reform ourselves just as a twig is bent to make it straight to make it an arrow (al-Salla). Allama Mashriqi says that Salat is:

"Is nothing else but arrangement and order, concord of the community and obedience to the leader, public spirit and self-command, battle against firmness towards the enemy, deliberateness and jusitice. Control of land and sea, as reptiles have it, command of the air as birds have it. All Westerners know what Salat means, occupying the earth from to bottom". [Al-Tadhkira, Pg 64]

He get all the above meanings from the root meanings of Salat:

arrangement and order=to walk straight as a running horse (musalli=the one following) that follows the Sabiq(1st horse)

concord of the community and obedience to the leader=The pursuit of Human Development is the Sabiq we must follow so we are musalli. This is why we must follow the chosen Khalif as he or she is then the chosen Sabiq of the community which the makes the whole ummah musalli, those that follow the 1st horse. This is also explained in the verse:

74:43 They will reply, "We were not of the Musalleen.”

As they did not follow the System of God nor followed the pursuit of Human development. [See Raghib in Al-Mufridaat Fi Ghareebil Qur’an]

public spirit and self-command, battle against firmness towards the enemy, deliberateness and jusitice=Iqama-asSalat. Iqama comes from Qama, to stand firm, hold your ground. Thus the Iqama-asSalat means: "To follow the Quranic System in every situation and under every circumstances", this is also why verse 2:238 does not talk about "the middle prayer" but about always hold up the Quranic Law system, even during such an emotional state of divorce, or while during travel:

2:238 (While describing some important marital laws), it is reiterated
that, your Central Duty remains the guarding of the System in which
individuals and families can develop their potentials to the maximum.
Stay alert in obedience to God.
2:239 Whether fear threatens you from without, or you are strolling,
riding, relaxing in peace, remember God as He has taught you (the right
and wrong) what you did not know. [3:3, 3:190-191, 4:103]



Control of land and sea, as reptiles have it, command of the air as birds have it. All Westerners know what Salat means, occupying the earth from to bottom= See verse 24:41 where it is pointed out that all creatures know their Salat and Tasbeeh, they know their instinct which they follow(salat) and they know their mission(Tasbeeh).

G.A.Parwez says:

"In verse (24/41) a question is asked: "Have you not pondered over the fact that whatever there is in the universe including the birds with wings spread out, is continuously carrying out their assignments with fullest play of their capabilities and each one of them knows its sphere of duties (Tasbeeh) and the way those are to be carried out (Sal'at)." This obviously means that everything in the universe knows by instinct, what are its duties and how to perform them and what is its destiny. As far as animal world is concerned, they do it by instinct. But if a human being wants to know, what is his Tasbeeh and Sal'at, it is a must for him to have faith in Wahi, through which all these directions containing do's and don'ts are explained. This is Iqamat-As-Sal'at, a special term used in the Quran.
To follow the Laws of the Quran is Iqamat-As-Sal'at. This is not possible individually and can only be done collectively; that is why the Quran has used the plural tense for this. It is the responsibility of an Islamic State is to establish this order (22/41), and they do it by mutual consultations (42/38). This system covers all the aspects of life, particularly the economic system. Verse (11/87) is very significant in this regard. It says: "O Shu'aib! does your Sal'at not permit us even to spend our wealth as we desire?" They did not understand as to what type of Sal'at is one which gives directions even in economic matters; they thought Sal'at is just a prayer or some sort of ritual.

In a nutshell it would pose one simple question. Would a person like to decide his affairs according to his desires, wishes or would he surrender before the Laws of Allah? This later position is called Sal'at. Verse (19/59) further clarifies: "they were followed by people who abandoned or negated the Sal'at." Therefore, following the Divine Laws is called Sal'at. As such Ibn-e-Qutaiba says, Sal'at actually means Ad-Deen and Iqamat-As-Sal'at means Iqamat-ud-Deen."


http://www.ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=120



Baljon mentions in "Modern Muslim Koran Interpretation (1968 Brill)[page 79-80]:

"Further, it is attempted to prove a broad sense of Salat and its components on etymolgical grounds. "Al-Salat", it is is argued, "is a term for 'walking on a striaght road'...musalli is a word for a horse running in a race right behind the first group of horses; no musalli is a zigzagging horse. Accordingly, if it is stated about somebody who turns away from the body of Islam that "he does not believe, does not observe salat but denies the truth and takes by-roads"(75:31). And Parwez holds forth in another excursus: "Sabh (root of Tasbeeh) signifies 'to swim, to race with the fierceness of a horse', that is to say: as , while swimming, the arms are spread widely, so it is called sabh if a horse gallops at full trot. Consequently, in this notion both the elements of fierceness and expanse are implied. So e.g. sabbaha fi l'ard means 'to travel in distant countries'; inna laka fi 'l-nahari sbhan tawilan (73:7)-"you have in the daytime an extensive and busy occupation". Hence, it says that everything in the creation is 'doing sabh', it signifies that everything is busy with carrying out appointed duties in a scrupulous way"....Ahmed Al-Din says by this also that Hajj is an annual international conference that ought to be avail for prevention of wars."

Mashriqi says also: "On the whole Sujud in the Koran does not stand for 'to rub the forehead on the ground' but 'to act upon the commands of God'. Thus 55:5-6; "And the herbs and trees made a Sadjah"(i.e. obeyed the Laws of God)[Tadhkira page 107]

And so Hajj is also a form of Salat as it is pursuing the following of the Quran which commands all of Mankind to be one:

2:213 Mankind were one single community.


So what is 4:101-104 about?

4:101 When you go forth in the land, there is no blame on you if you
shorten [Salat], if you fear that the unbelievers may attack you. Surely, the rejecters are an open enemy to you.

4:102 When you (O Messenger!) are with them and establish the
congregations of Salaat for them, let some of them stand with you, and
let them take their arms. Then, after they have received instructions, let
them fall to the rear and let another party come that has not received
instructions. Let them take precautions and their arms. The disbelievers
want you to neglect your arms and other belongings so that they may
attack you once and for all. There is no harm for you to lay aside your
arms if rain impedes you or if you are ill. But take all possible precaution.
Certainly, God has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating
chastisement.

4:103 Be mindful of God’s commands whatever state you are in,
standing, sitting or lying down. And when you are once again secure,
establish the congregations of Salaat. Joining the congregations of
Salaat at the times [appointed by the Central authority] is a duty to believers.

4:104 Do not show weakness in pursuing the enemy. If you suffer
hardship they too suffer hardship. But you have hope to receive God’s
reward that they cannot rightfully hope. God is the Knower, the Wise.


The Salat mentioned here is nothing more then the gatherings of the community to discuss of to implent the Quranic System. The Quranic message is very open and flexible and does not discuss all details, as we must lay down these details ourselves as needed in a situation. 4:102 shows a gathering discussing the war strategy and 4:103 we are reminded that the Quranic System can only work when we all participate and share our thoughts and know our duties in the System.

So what is Wudhu for? Maybe just a reminder to be clean when gathering in public? We are also reminded to wear good clothing and to have a clear mind. Human psychology is trained to take the words of a clean, nicely dressed person more seriously then that of a person that is dirty, unwashed and wears simple clothing.

amuslim

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Re: ATTN Arnold Yasin - Question regarding the nature of Allah
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2007, 05:24:25 AM »
Peace Arnold,

Wow, all of this is making a lot of sense.  Again I have to thank you and those that wrote those articles.  I really cant respond to anything that you wrote since it makes perfect sense :)  I just have one more question that I forgot to add in the other one.  What happened regarding Noah?  The flood that is.  I watched something on TV regarding Noah and the Epic of Gilgamesh where it was first recorded.  They said that its possible for an event like that to take place in a local region, but not worldwide like the Bible.

I have several questions regarding this. 

1. How did Noah know that it was going to rain?  I know you talk about Umm-Al Kitab and how they have access to whatever it is.  Could he have just guessed it was going to be a massive flood through science or was he literally told this by God?  I know that somewhere in the Quran it states that God works through Inspiration, or something like that.  So I take it that all the things that are given to Prophets arent literally spoken to from God, but like dreams or intuition?

2. Was there a flood because the people were wicked or just because due to science?  The same question goes for Pharoah, Aad, Thamoud, etc.

3. Regarding the special female camel, was it literally placed there by God?  How would that work?

4. Muhammad got his revalation through Jibreel.  Now, how exactly did that work?  How did Muhammad have access to the past?  I know you said Umm al Kitab, but is there a scientific way to explain this?  Like, did he go through some sort of seizure or something?  Like in some parts of Quran, I believe when he describes Jonah, he says "the one with the N in his name", or something like that.  Now whats the significance of that?  If Muhammad has access to Umm al kitab, shouldnt he know the name?

5. Your stuff is hosted on 19.org  Do you personally believe in the 19 code?  I guess if you do, that answers the question regarding "the one with the N in his name".


I know I said one question but it turned into 5, sorry about that.

Peace
[16:79]Do they not see the birds committed to fly in the atmosphere of the sky? No-one holds them up in the air except Allah. This should be (sufficient) proof for people who believe.

Arnold Yasin

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Re: ATTN Arnold Yasin - Question regarding the nature of Allah
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2007, 06:05:18 AM »
3. Is there are a real literal qiblah in your opinion?  Could the qiblah (focal point) just mean where your thoughts and intentions are directed (ie Allah) at?  I know this may go against your concept of not worshipping God, but I believe that your reasoning for that was just that Islams MAIN reason was not for worship?

Qiblah can be best understood as focus, and we are told that our Qiblah should the Masjid Al-Haram. To me, this is not a building as for example the Kaab, nor a temple. But the name for the Insitution, the Council/Shura committee. Ma=the place of Sujood=obeying the commands Al-Haram=restrictions, laws, forbidden, the exhaustive, the Laws given in the Quran. I believe also that it stands for the whole Quranic State, and even for your mind, as this to must be a place where the laws are followed.

4. Why does Quran talk about being "deaf, dumb, and blind" like the animals?  Is it because they operate on instinct while we operate on intellect (or at least should)?

Yes. Animals can only follow the paths laid out for them in their instinct, we on the other hand have Ruh/Wind, and so our mind can go in any direction just as the wind and so we must use our intellect to Life and our goals. When we do not do this, we are just like animals as we only follow our biological program and not our metaphysical program. And then we are even worse then animals as they atleast do as ordered and do Tasbeeh, while we are degrading ourselves and do not make full use of our potentials.

7:179 Our law has committed to Hell numerous people, rural and urban;
they are living a life of Hell. They have hearts that they use not to
understand. They have eyes with which they see not, and ears with
which they hear not. They are like cattle. Nay, they are even worse.
Such are the people who have chosen to live through life in total
darkness of ignorance.


5. I asked this in the other thread but I wasnt exactly sure on the answer.  When animals enter the next life, are their own personal nafs there as well or is that just for the humans?  Do they evolve to a higher state of being or do they just stay at that level?  Also the trees, bacteria, etc.

I do not believe Nafs is a form of life on itself, I believe it is an imprint into the fabric of the Universe of every species, beings and so on. These we will be all be created again in the Next Universe, but will arise in a higher developed form in many cases.

6. Do we get anything out of worshipping God?  I know we shouldnt think that way, but Id just like to know if there are benefits to doing so?

I believe not, the momentarely created good feeling after prayer or forms of worship are in a fact as drugs. They give this short term feeling of fulfillment and that you have pleased God and made a connection with Him. People do give arguments as that it reminds you of your duty, makes you pious and so on. But do you really need prayer to follow the Quran?

From a sociological point of view the concept of worship was formed in prehistoric times when Mankind did not understood nature and saw it as loose forces that were fighting each other. So they approached these "forces" as they would approach humans, they tried to please them with gifts and attention. This is of course logical as human-relations is all they knew and thus could apply. Over time, people formed different views on these forces and their approach to these forces formed into rituals as did the sociological relations between humans, for example, with many tribal people when a boy reaches manhood, he must first go through several rituals before he is seen as a man.

They created this form of gestures and symbolism in their approach to their understanding of nature and this formed into Sjamanism. During this same time, the leadership of the tribe was taken by the strongest, eldest or the one chosen. When Mankind formed larger and larger settlements, their rites and symbolism evolved also and their view of the forces changed and made them stronger and more powerful just as they as a settlement grew stronger. With a larger group there is more needed to keep order and to make them listen to the leader, and so the leader, the chief, became a king. A person asigned by the forces. In this way they assured people would listen to the leader as they believed he was chosen not by themselves but by the forces, their gods.

In this way an interchange of power emerged between the priesthood and the kings as they both had to sustain each other to keep order in their land. People still approached the 'gods' as they would approach humans that are more powerful, with gifts, attention and symbolism of being a servant. Also to show they accepted the kings power, similiar rituals and ideas were formed around the kings, and they would be seen as superhumans.

Just as there were multiple cities and multiple kings, there were probably also multiple gods whom people served. So worship was first formed to a wrong understanding of nature, later on it took up a form of a means to keep order in a society and to keep them loyal to their leaders.

The Romans believed the gods must be pleased with them as they were so succesful, so their belief in the gods was a reaction on nature and their status as a nation. So in these several ways the practice of worship was kept alive.

This concept was also taken on by every nation that had received Revelations/Wahi. Every time they lost their understanding of their Wahi through loss of knowledge, they went back to their old understanding of worship and kingship and tried to mix it with what was left of the message. In this way, the original Revelations were distorted on purpose or just because of misunderstanding its message through loss of knowledge. See 16:63-64, 19:59, 57:16.

Roman Christianity in a sense was just pagan worship, mixed with a Jewish legend, formed on some copies that claimed to be divine, and on a mix of pagan beliefs of Mithra and Isis worship. Hinduism, Zoroasterism and Jewism are the best examples of nations loosing the original message. The Veda's and the Bible are scriptures that have been mixed up so much with historical reports, philosophies, commentaries on the original scriptures made by ancient scholars, and just plain old distortion to uphold the power of the priests and the kings.

The Quran was thus given to break again this spell of the wrong understanding of Nature and more importantly, this class-set up of slaves-subjects-elite-priesthood-kings.

Allah begins with Bi-Ism-Allah to say what He really is: Ar-Rahman and Ar-Raheem, the non-discriminating Source of All we need (rahman) and the Provider of further stages of Evolution for those who are most fit for this (raheem).

These 2 defintions already completely break the spell of worship and of elite-classes as Allah is non-discriminating to whom He provides the basic substances as air, food, water, gold and so on, so no amount of worship can help you get more of these substances, plus status in society is nonsense as all our provided, so no king or priest has more right. It is even funny that it are the slaves and subjects who find the gold, make the food and so on, and then the kings and priests get the most of this. The slaves and subjects give this food and wealth to the kings and priests out of fear for oppression and out of fear in displeasign the gods or God. But God says, I am Rahman, you ALL deserve my Rizq/providing.

Raheem tells us that we can only deserve succes as a people and further development in the Universe if we strive for this and the Quran tells us we do this by feeding the poor, helping and protecting the needy, to create the Quranic Law and Economic System, to explore nature and so on. Nowhere does it refer to worship but to serve the System for all of Humanity:

13:17..While what is of benefit to mankind, abides on earth.

3:110 (Since you have been empowered by the Qur’an), you are the
best suited Community that has been raised up for the good of mankind.
You shall enjoin the Right and discourage the Wrong, since you have
conviction in God. Now if the People of the scripture had attained this
kind of belief, it would have been for their own good. Some of them do
embrace belief, while most of them continue to drift away.

6:151 Say, "Come, let me convey to you what your Sustainer has
enjoined upon you as a sacred duty: i. Associate none with Him. Ii.
Honor your parents, do good to them, fulfill their needs. iii. Neither kill
your children for fear of poverty nor deprive them of proper training and
education. We provide for you and for them. (The Divine System will
take care of your needs and their needs.) iv. Do not go near immodesty
or lewdness whether openly or in secret. v. Do not slay a life - life that
God has made sacred - except in the course of justice. This He has
commanded you so that you may use your intelligence.”

6:152 God commands you further: vi. Do not approach the wealth of the
orphan except to improve it until they come of age with full maturity of
body and mind. vii. Give full weight and full measure in all your dealings.
Uphold justice in all aspects of your life. Our commands are meant to
widen your human potential. We do not assign any ‘self’ responsibility
beyond its means. viii. And when you voice an opinion, be just, even if it
is against a relative. ix. Fulfill your Covenant with God, the unwavering
allegiance to the Divine System (1:4-5, 9:111). This He commands for
you to bear in mind.

3:190 Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and in the
alternation of night and day, there are signs for men and women who will
to understand.

3:191 (Such men and women of understanding keep reflecting upon
how God’s laws operate in the Universe.) Standing, sitting, and reclining,
they reflect upon the wonders of creation in the skies and earth, saying,
"Our Lord! You have not created all this without purpose. glory to You!
Save us, then, from (being negligent in attaining knowledge and thus
from) the doom of the fire.”

[When humans harness the forces in Nature and use them for the
common good of all, they move away from Hell, rightfully hoping to
achieve Paradise in both lives. 13:17, 45:13-14]

3:192 (Reflecting on the Universe and upon their own role on the Planet,
such people work for the betterment of humanity 13:17. They say), “Our
Lord! Any individuals and nations whom You admit into the fire, You
have brought them low (for failing to harness the forces in Nature)."
There are no helpers for those who displace knowledge with conjecture
and thus wrong themselves. [Zaalimeen translated according to the
context]

90:11 But he hardly tries the uphill road, the Ascent.
90:12 Ah, what will convey to you what that Ascent is!
90:13 Freeing others from bondage, physical or mental, and from any
social, economic or political oppression. [Freeing the neck includes all
the above meanings and establishing the System wherein the only
Master is God]
90:14 Feeding in times of hunger, famine, wars and natural disasters.
90:15 Taking special care of those who, despite being a part of the
community, feel left out. [Za maqrabah = Near one = Relative = Part of
the community]
90:16 Helping him who remains needy though he toils in the dust.
90:17 Being of those who have chosen to be graced with belief, and
become living reminders of perseverance and living reminders of
compassion.
90:18 Such are the companions of the right hand (immersed in bliss).




Ive also been pondering about your talk on Jesus again.  Im not sure if you mentioned it in your articles (I read it but it has so much information, thats a good thing :) , but couldn't also when God says "He could have chosen anyone" regarding the Son of God, isnt that a refute again against Jesus being a Virgin Birth?  I was wondering to myself, "God knows that Christians believe he is of a Virgin birth, so why doesn't he out right say it isnt so?", when I was reading your message on how the quran mentions about "Fathers, sons, and brethen" deal when it talks of the prophets.  Today it hit me regarding the refutation on Jesus being the Son of God, and I think its a clear stance against it.

The Quran is very clear when it comes to Jesus as God clearly says Jesus is as Adam, Mankind. AND the words used here for Adam are in the Present tense, and so clearly says Jesus is like all Man. Under Roman-Christian influence this was completely ignored by 90% of the Muslims of the later and present ages. So God does says it outright to the Christians, but few want to listen, they rather want to uphold supernatural beliefs as otherwise they do not accept the kings, priests and their created view of God's authority.

The Quran is the breaker of spells, but many are not ready...

Muhammed Asad says in his translation:

3: 59 Verily, in the sight of God, the nature of Jesus is as the nature of Adam, whom He created out of dust and then said unto him, "Be" - and he is.* (3: 60) [This is] the truth from thy Sustainer; be not, then, among the doubters!

*Lit., "The parable of Jesus is as the parable of Adam...", etc. The expression mathal (rendered above as "nature") is often metaphorically employed to denote the state or condition (of a person or a thing), and is in this sense - as the commentators have pointed out - synonymous with sifah (the "quality" or "nature" of a thing). As is evident from the sequence, the above passage is part of an argument against the Christian doctrine of the divinity of Jesus. The Qur'an stresses here, as in many other places, the fact that Jesus, like Adam - by which name, in this context, the whole human race is meant - was only a mortal "created out of dust", i.e., out of substances, both organic and inorganic, which are found in their elementary forms on and in the earth. Cf. also 18:37, 22:5, 30:20, 35:11, 40:67, where the Qur'an speaks of all human beings as "created out of dust". That "Adam" stands here for the human race is clearly implied in the use of the present tense in the last word of this sentence.


Off topic: Bit of a personal question, but were you born into an arabic speaking family or did you just learn arabic (classical) on your own?

I am blond, blue eyed, born in a Dutch Roman-Catholic family. Studied Biochemistry and Physics, became Muslim when I was 20 because of the science in the Quran, completely rejected all other scriptures as having divine authority such as Hadith, Bible and so on when I was 21, I have studied Theology at Amsterdam College for 2 years and have studied under some of the most known Dutch philosophers, evolutionaire biologists, Bible scholars, theologists and Islam scholars. I now study Arabic at the University of Rotterdam, but taught myself the Arabic language more then a year ago as far as I could by myself.

There are many books that explain the Arabic definitions and meanings and I am very lucky to work closely with Dr.Shabbir, Akhtar Sherazi, Samia and to have beautiful conversations with Dr.Muhammed Shahroor.

I am just an amateur when it comes to the Quran, and I try to use my knowledge to understand the Quranic message the best way I can and share it with others. I can only recommend to read the commentaries of Muhammed Asad, Muhammed Ali, Ahmed Ali and that of QXP/Dr.Shabbir. And then read the books of Parwez, Muhammed Shahroor and science books, mix all these together and you will see where I get my ideas from.

Arnold Yasin

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Re: ATTN Arnold Yasin - Question regarding the nature of Allah
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2007, 06:44:39 AM »
Wow, all of this is making a lot of sense.  Again I have to thank you and those that wrote those articles.  I really cant respond to anything that you wrote since it makes perfect sense :) 

I had that too when Dr.Shabbir explained these things to me in the same way.

I just have one more question that I forgot to add in the other one.  What happened regarding Noah?  The flood that is.  I watched something on TV regarding Noah and the Epic of Gilgamesh where it was first recorded.  They said that its possible for an event like that to take place in a local region, but not worldwide like the Bible.

Is correct, it probably happened near the Black Sea around 4-5000 BCE and it was local, although a huge flood as the whole of the Black Sea used to be dry land and then water from the Mediteranian was pushed into the lower land there through a tsunami caused by an Earth quake, but they are still researching this. But they have found settlements and houses at the bottom of the Black Sea.

The Quran just uses the word Al-Ardh which just means habitable land, the place where people can live and walk. In the Quran it is used for just a small piece of lands, nations and the whole Earth. So the Quran does not say at all that it is the whole Earth that was drowned.

1. How did Noah know that it was going to rain?  I know you talk about Umm-Al Kitab and how they have access to whatever it is.  Could he have just guessed it was going to be a massive flood through science or was he literally told this by God?  I know that somewhere in the Quran it states that God works through Inspiration, or something like that.  So I take it that all the things that are given to Prophets arent literally spoken to from God, but like dreams or intuition?

God spoke to them via means of communication where their minds had access to the Umm-alKitab of the Universe. God choose them as they were most fit to guide their people. If a people is constantly busy with protecting its people, it would look out for disasters like this. As God helps every nation with guidance how to reform itself so it is in harmony with each other and nature, Noah's nation was contacted via Noah.

As God knows the workings of the Universe, He knew the earthquake and thus the flood was coming. So He warned Noah so he could wanr his people, but they didn't listen as they did not care about the future, nor believed in helping each other, nor believed in the concept that God would help them through talking. They believed their current habit of worship was enough to protect them against these things.

It is like with Katrina, the big storm in America, where people were warned but they still stayed at home and thus were killed, but it also reflected that the government does not care about its people as the dams around New Orleans were not good enough. This is in a sense the story of Noah all over again.

Plus you must not forget that this warning happens in a long time range, several years mostly, so it is not so sudden. People have the dangerous tendency to see the things happening in the time it takes them to read the verses, while forgetting the Quran gives us snapshots that are spread out over years.

2. Was there a flood because the people were wicked or just because due to science?  The same question goes for Pharoah, Aad, Thamoud, etc.

They were wicked as they did not protect all people, and this caused their own doom. Mankind only now starts to understand that only through taking care of all people does a nation gain in strength. As peace creates prosperity and time to research the Earth so we can understand its workings.

3. Regarding the special female camel, was it literally placed there by God?  How would that work?

I believe the term she-camel is used as a symbol. Many commentators say different things, for example:

QXP:
7:73 The people of Thamud were successors to ‘Aad. To them We sent
their brother, Saaleh. He said, “O My people! Serve God. You have no
other god but He. The clear truth has come to you from your Lord. This
is the she-camel of God, a token for your obedience. So let her feed in
God’s earth and do not harm her lest painful torment seize you.”
[The
feudal lords controlled land, crop, oases and water resources, and the
weak were suffering. Saaleh assigned a she-camel as a symbol of their
reformation]

Muhammed Asad:

"The commentators cite various legends to the effect that this she-camel was of miraculous origin. Since neither the Qur'an nor any authentic Tradition provides the least support for these legends, we must assume that they are based on the expression ndgat Allah ("God's she-camel"), which has led some pious Muslims to fantastic conjectures. However, as Rashfd Ri4a' points out (Mandr VIII, 502), this expression denotes merely the fact that the animal in question was not owned by any one person, and was therefore to be protected by the whole tribe; a further, analogous expression is found in the words "God's earth" in the same verse: an illustration of the fact that everything belongs to God. The particular stress placed by $glib on good treatment of this ownerless animal - referred to in several places in the Qur'dn - was obviously due to the cruel high-handedness displayed by the tribe, who, as the next two verses show, were wont to "act wickedly on earth by spreading corruption" and "gloried in their arrogance towards all who were deemed weak": in other words, their treatment of the defenceless animal was to be a "token" of their change of heart or (as is made clear in 54: 27) "a test for them".

4. Muhammad got his revalation through Jibreel.  Now, how exactly did that work?  How did Muhammad have access to the past?  I know you said Umm al Kitab, but is there a scientific way to explain this?  Like, did he go through some sort of seizure or something?  Like in some parts of Quran, I believe when he describes Jonah, he says "the one with the N in his name", or something like that.  Now whats the significance of that?  If Muhammad has access to Umm al kitab, shouldnt he know the name?

I do not know how that exactly works, but the Quran does comment that Muhammed does not need to worry that he is crazy, so it was an impressive experience it seems.

Yes, it works a bit like Radio waves, but then using your brain as the transmitter. We are starting to understand the brain as a transmitter more and more, as for example with twin-pain where twins could feel pain or experience of another.

God used "the one with the N in his name" for a reason that we are still exploring. Even if it is interlocked with 19, it doesn't end there. Same that most of the loose letters also had meanings in Arabic, like Yasin is "Oh Mankind".

5. Your stuff is hosted on 19.org  Do you personally believe in the 19 code?  I guess if you do, that answers the question regarding "the one with the N in his name".

Yes, but I do not believe Rashad to be a "messenger" as he did not bring anything new, nor do I believe does the Quran support a form of messenger without revelation, plus the Quran is complete. There were already large groups of Quran-alone groups in India and Pakistan and also in Egypt in the 1900's and they were already way ahead of him when it came to the Quranic Message. Even the Ahmediya scholar Muhammed Ali has a better understanding of the Quran then Rashad and he died in 1951. Rashad stumbled on the 19code, and later on developed a form of Messiah-syndrome caused probably by stress and the pressure of his community and his concept of he as a small man taking up the 1Billion Hadith-muslims.

So I seperate the discoverer from the discovery. I do not believe the 19 code explains the Quran, it is just a verification method for the future generations. You cannot just say, I believe in the Quran, every letter and word must be accounted for in a sort of verification way, and mathematics is exactly the best tool for this. So from a scientific point of view it is logical God used this as his tool.

Sadly people have mixed up rashad to much with his discovery and his claim on messengership did not help and there are still to much factors involved to really see how it works. this is also why I believe it is for future generations and not us.

I always use this example concerning 19. To make use of a cow, does a common man need to know the DNA of the cow? Does he need to know the DNA to eat it, milk it or use its skin? No. DNA only interests a scientist, so lets keep it that way.

People have again used 19 for their personal salvation or gain, and this is why people are so confused about it.