True Nature of Quran

[Nadeem]

Peace Genteel,

my little "pinky"

Oh I bet it is!

(Sorry I just couldn't help it, nothing personal. I'll remove this if someone protests)

Nadeem

[iris89]

The Quran Trashed by Caliph Uthman:

INTRODUCTION:

Members of Islam love to falsely claim that the inspired word of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, has been corrupted and that the Quran has not, but this is a LIE.

From earliest of times many versions were in circulation that did NOT agree with each other. Caliph Uthman wanted to eliminate this situation, but the way he did ensured the permanent corruption of the Quran by eliminating all checks and balances. He made an ?official? version, and burned all others to prevent cross checking for errors and corruption; whereas, with the inspired word of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, the Bible, there are over 30,000 ancient Manuscripts, Codex?s, fragments, and scrolls that permit checking for errors and corruption?s and which make possible the correction of any corruption.

This article will go in-depth with regard to the impossibility that the Quran is without corruption and highlight why it must be corrupt beyond any possibility of repair.

THE EARLY QURANIC SITUATION BEFORE CALIPH UTHMAN:

Islam's 'history' claims that in 30 AH, some 18 years after Muhammad's death, during Caliph 'Uthman's reign, there was much contention amongst certain followers of Islam concerning the recitation of the Qur'an [[Mention has not been made of the first collection of the Qur'an, generally said to have been made under the first Caliph Abu Bakr, passed to the second Caliph `Umar, and left at his death to his daughter Hafsah, one of Muhammad's wives. Part of the text of Bukhari, Vol. 6, #509, reads:

"Narrated Zaid bin Thabit; Abu Bakr as-Saddiq sent for me when the people of Yamama had been killed... (I went to him) and found `Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me); "Umar has come to me and said; "Casualties were heavy among the Qurra of the Qur'an (i.e. those who knew the Qur'an by heart) ...and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place... whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected." I said to `Umar, "How can you do something which Allah's Messenger did not do?"... "Umar kept urging me until Allah opened my chest for it and I began to realise the good idea which `Umar had realised."... "then Abu Bakr said (to me).'...So you should search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur'an and collect it (in one book)."...So I started looking for the Qur'an and collecting it... Then the complete manuscripts (copy) of the Qur'an remained with Abu Bakr till he died, then with `Umar till the end of his life, and then with Hafsa, the daughter of `Umar."]].

It is recorded that he commanded copies to be made of one consonantal symbol text, and sent these to the centres of the Islamic empire with the command that all texts that varied from those copies were to be burnt. [[/ The Hizb ut-Tahrir state almost the same thing:
"Abu Bakr instructed Zaid bin Thabit to collect the Qur'an... The compiled Qur'an was kept by Abu Bakr (ra) until he died, then by Umar bin Khattab, and when he died it was given to his daughter Hafsa (ra).... During the time of Uthman (ra) differences in reading the Qur'an became obvious and after consultation with the companions, Uthman had a standard copy made for [edit.- from] the Suhuf (pages) of Abu Bakr (ra) that were with Hafsa (ra). the copy was prepared by Zaid bin Thabit, Abdullah..., Said..., and Abdur-Rahman Harith bin Hisham. Copies were made and distributed, 2 of these copies can today be found in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul and in Tashkent." (What is The Qur'an?, Al Khalifah Publications)]].

"During the time of 'Uthman differences in reading the Qur'an became obvious, and after consultation with the Companions, 'Uthman had a standard copy prepared from the suhuf of Abu Bakr kept with Hafsa at that time.

The following is the report transmitted in Sahih Bukhari:
"Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to 'Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, 'O chief of the Believers! Set this people right before they differ about the Book (Qur'an), as the Jews and the Christians did before'. Then 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, 'Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may copy the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you. Hafsah sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Abdullah bin az-Zubair, Sa'id bin Al-'As and Abdur Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, 'In case you disagree with Zayd bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of the Quraish, as the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue'. They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsah. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt...."" [Reference - Sahih Bukhari, Vol.6, #510, p. 479).(Ulum, p.52f)].

CALIPH UTHMAN?S SOLUTION:

Caliph Uthman came up with a ?solution? with regard to these differences that rendered any future checking of corruption of the Qur?an impossible. He burnt all other copies to prevent cross checking for corruption. One Encyclopedia says, <<<? There is no proof of purity - yes, the Qur'an has remained unchanged since the time of Uthman but prior to him various versions of the Qur'an existed. This is a fact.

The reason for the existence of the various versions was that Mohammed's saying were NOT written but commited to memory alone. It is only since Islamic scholars "harmonised" the various verions of the Qur'an as ordered by Uthman that the Qur'an has remained unchanged.

perhaps; but there is no shame in that. And your faith in man's ability to memorise is misplaced.

As said above - the Qur'an when commited to the memory of men was subject to change and variation. It was due to this fact that the Caliph Uthman decreed that the various records be harmonised and written. And all the prior text were destroyed by fire. So just be honest - and

If EVERY Qur'an on the earth were to be destroyed - and if the Qur'an were to be transmitted by memorisation alone - in 100 years there would be 100's, if not 1,000's, of variations in the text.

IS only one version of the Qur'an. But that fact is there WERE many versions. If there were not then the Caliph Uthman would never have gathered a council of Islamic scholars to harmonise the differing version to come up with a standard.

And the fact that it is in Arabic is neither here nor there. God can speak any language. Nothing special bout Arabic or any other language for that matter.

"Please show us the different versions you have insinuated". This is no "insinuation" but a fact that is well known to Imams and Islamic scholars. The fact of the matter is that the Caliph Uthman ordered the burning of ALL pre-existant Qur'an - an order which was carried out - again a fact know to Islamic scholars.

"I await the different versions"...... stupidity. As you very well know they were all destroyed by the command of Caliph Uthman. And what happens if a Christian or some other poor soul happens to deface or destroy the Qur'an ? they get executed!! Was Caliph Utham executed for the same? NO!! So were is Islamic justice??[Source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]>>>.

So given this course of events, it can be seen there is no possibility that the Qur?an can be ?pure.? In fact many writers have presented proof with respect two missing Suras that were in the original. Let?s look at some of the sources for this statement and facts on other missing items.

Muslims attack the Bible on the grounds that it sometimes has conflicting wording from different manuscripts. Yet this is exactly the case with the text of the Quran. There are many conflicting readings on the text of the Quran as Arthur Jeffery has demonstrated in his book, Material for the History of the Text of the Quran (New York, Russell F. Moore, 1952).[source ? Material for the History of the Text of the Quran, by Arthur Jeffery, New York, published by Russell F. Moore, 1952].

At one point Jeffery gives 90 pages of variant readings on the text. For example, in Sura 2 there are over 140 conflicting and variant readings on the text of the Quran. ).[source ? Material for the History of the Text of the Quran, by Arthur Jeffery, New York, published by Russell F. Moore, 1952].

All Western and Muslim scholars admit the presence of variant readings in the text of the Quran [Sources - Dashti, 23 Years, p. 28; Mandudi, Meaning of the Quran, pp. 17-18; McClintock and Strong, Cyclopedia, V152)].

Guillaume points out that the Quran at first "had a large number of variants, not always trifling in significance" [Source - Islam, by Professor Guillaume, p. 189].

"It is interesting to note that in scholarly Muslim journals, there is beginning to be a grudging acknowledgment of the fact that there are variant and conflicting readings on the text of the Quran" [Reference - One example would be Saleh al-Wahaihu, "A Study of Seven Quranic Variants," International Journal of Islamic and Arabic Studies, Vol. V (1989), #2, pp. 1-57)].

According to Professor Guillaume in his book, Islam, (pp. 191ff.), some of the original verses of the Quran were lost. [Source - Islam, by Professor Guillaume, pp. 191ff.]

For example, one Sura originally had 200 verses in the days of Ayesha. But by the time Uthman standardized the text of the Quran, it had only 73 verses! A total of 127 verses had been lost, and they have never been recovered.[source - The Islamic Invasion," by Dr. Robert Morey; Harvest Home Publishers, 1992. ISBN 0-89081-983-1].

The Shiite Muslims claim that Uthman left out 25 percent of the original verses in the Quran for political reasons [McClintock and Strong, Cyclopedia, V:152)].

That there are verses which got left out of Uthman's version of the Quran is universally recognized [References - Shorter Encyclopedia off Islam, pp. 278-282; Guillaume, Islam, p. 191; Wherry, A Comprehensive Commentary on the Quran, pp. 110-111)].

[Other References - John Burton's book, The Collection of the Quran, which was published by Cambridge University, documents how such verses were lost (London University Press, 1977, pp. 117ff. See also Arthur Jeffery, Islam: Muhammad and His Religion, New York; Liberal Arts Press, 1958, pp. 66-68)].

Burton states concerning the Muslim claim that the Quran is perfect:

"The Muslin accounts of the history of the Quran texts are a mass of confusion, contradiction and inconsistencies" [Source, The Collection of the Quran, by John Burton, published by Cambridge University, page. 231].

In fact Caliph Ultman had verses added to the Qur?an, let?s look at that:

Not only have parts of the Quran been lost, but entire verses and chapters have been added to it.

For example, Ubai had several Suras in his manuscript of the Quran which Uthman omitted from his standardized text.

Thus there were Qurans in circulation before Uthman's text which had additional revelations from Muhammad that Uthman did not find or approve of, and thus he failed to place them in his text.

Also, there are No Originals:
As to the claim that the original manuscript of the Quran is still in existence, we have already pointed out there was no single "manuscript" of the Quran.

Caesar Farah in his book on Islam, states:

"When Muhammad died there existed no singular codex of the sacred text" [source - Caesar Farah, Islam: Beliefs and Observations, New York; Barrons, 1987, p. 28)].

"One thing only is certain and is openly recognized by tradition, namely, that there was not in existence any collection of revelations in the final form, because, as long as he was alive, new revelations were being added to the earlier ones" [source - The Shorter Encyclopedia off Islam comments: (p. 271)].

ISLAM?S FALSE ACCUSATIONS AGAINST THE BIBLE ARE HYPOCRITICAL AND CONCLUSION:

First, let?s delve a little deeper in into the true state of the Qur?an after Caliph Uthman.

Restrain this people before they differ in the book, as do the Jews and the Christians." [Source - Tafsir, vol. 1, p. 20: cited from W. Campbell, The Qur'an and the Bible in Light of History and Science, p.110f]

Ibn Mas`ud and Ubai were sent by the 2nd Caliph `Umar as the Islamic governors and teachers of their respective provinces. They were not rebels who went out to spread error! They were teaching their particular 'version' (Islam's own word for differing Arabic texts) of the Qur'an which they both claimed adamantly came from Muhammad.

Yet, Ahmed Von Denffer who already admitted graphic differences in the Companion readings has the gall to misstate the facts as:
"Later on, with Muslims settling in many parts of the world, the Qur'an was recited in a variety of ways, some of which were not in accordance with the accepted text, and the transmitted readings of the Prophet and the Companions. This necessitated a thorough screening and distinction between what is sahih (sound) and what is shadh (exceptional)." [Source - Ulum al Qur'an, by Ahmed Von Denffer, P. 119].

Although many claim that the codices of the Companions were different simply because they were 'personal notebooks', the differences Tabari mentions were those actually recited by their pupils, the citizens of Iraq and Syria, as 'Qur'an' from these men. These were not 'notebooks', and Sahih Muslim (Vol. 2, p. 393f., #1797-1801) records examples of the differences taught to the followers.[Source ? Shih Muslim, Vol. 2, p. 393, #1797-1801].

For this reason Ibn Mas'ud is known to have refused to hand over his text to `Uthman's agents declaring that he received his from Muhammad and he was not willing to accept what young Zaid ibn Thabit recited. And, Sahih Muslim #6022 (Vol. 4, p. 1312; English version) records his admission that he told his followers to likewise withhold their copies! [Reference ? Shih Muslim #6022, Vol. 4, p. 1312].

The equally problematic choice faced by those who falsely claim that 6 out of 7 Forms of the Qur?an were simply withdrawn that there are admitted variations in writing. This is clearly shown since no Sunni would accept this; thus they are forced by their beliefs to falsely claim that the variants were simply ?notebooks? which is an outright lie.

However, many in Islam have the nerve to make claims with respect the ?purity? of the Bible. But their own ?house? is far out of order as shown by "Abu Amr who states that he received the following revelation from Katada as-Sadusi:
"When the first copy of the Qur'an was written out and presented to [the khalif] Othman Ibn Affan, he said: 'There are faults of language in it, and let the Arabs of the desert rectify them with their tongues." [Source - Biographical Dictionary, Ibn Khallikan, p. 401].

Even in this first copy corruption had occurred which was readily visible to Caliph Uthman, but he cared not as he wanted a uniform text oven an accurate test.

Inspite of the terrible corruption of the text of the Qur?an, Members of Islam
Repeat that the Bible has been corrupted which is patently absurd given the true state of affairs with regard the Qur?an. This is especially so given that <<<? In the English language, the alphabet has both consonants and vowels, but at that time the Arabic alphabet had only consonants. The consonants were represented by only seventeen symbols so that the symbol for one consonant could stand for one of two or more letters. And there was no way of indicating vowels.?[source - Language, Dialect and Interpretation of the Koran, by Manfred Davidmann]>>>.

And,

?The 'hamza', the 'alif' indicating 'long-a', the other vowels, and particularly the diacritical points which were added later and which fixed the underlying consonantal text, had by this time all been added to the Koran's text. Luxenberg considers that these changes to the original text by themselves resulted in the text of the Koran in many places being misread and distorted. In his thorough analysis {4} he makes the point that linguists (scholars) who inserted the diacritical and vowel points assumed that the particular 'reading' they were fixing was reliable and concludes that their assumption was now in doubt.[Refernece - Die syro-aramaeische Lesart des Koran; Ein Beitrag zur Entschl?sselung der Qur'ansprache. Berlin, Germany: Das Arabische Buch, First Edition, 2000. Pp. ix + 306, Vol. 6, No. 1, January 2003].

Now one should ask why Islam must hide the truth with respect the Qur?an. Of course the reason is obvious ? they could not openly attack the inspired word of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob, creator of all there is, the Bible, and it many manuscripts all delineating one text, and every one of them able to be compared with each other as a safeguard against error if they admitted the truth about the Qur?an, so they must live a lie.

Thus it is essential for Islam?s survival to avoid the truth about the early details with regard to the Qur?an. To admit the facts would ?blow? their cover-up with respect the none purity and the many variant versions of the Qur?an which once existed and all the other problems with regard the Qur?an.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[drfazl]

..

Quran is not at all a good detailed and consistent book to study because stories are concise, patched up and often inaccurately and inconsistently repeated and spread out at various stages throughout. This is due to its compilation process from fragmented pieces and orations collected from various parchments from various locations and pieced together and then completely modified and enhanced. Several people were involved in this process and in those days they had no means to proof-read. It is for this very reason, why Muslims are having a tough time understanding it and the obvious heated disagreements amongst them and all others.

.

Quran is Guidance in righteousness, and hence the history is to the point and concise and crisp for the knowledgeable to understand. Whoso is rightly guided shall see the contextual touch and go of the incidence and clear deliverance with neat application to suit an ideological mind. Several people involved in compiling the Hadiths; yes! Hadiths is nothing but garbage and gutter. You can't expect one to sit and proof read it. And your rest of the paragraph is good observation on Hadiths, the filth.
.

In Islam especially, priesthood is the grandiosity of their holy book blanketing Reality. It is like dark clouds over earth cutting off from outside world. It does not give you space to think, reason and excel. In one instance it tells you to verify information, to reflect upon the signs of heavens and earth, to recall and remember past events while on the other, it commands you to strictly obey nothing other than the silly laws, threats and proclamations it states within. Islam thrives upon enforcing vestigial (degenerated), immature, dangerous and often misunderstood Quranic exercises, let alone God's words. This is obviously a major disease in Islam that needs severely dealt with.

.
Obviously, you have clearly or cleverly mixed up garbage and quran. Speak on one alone; but one thing is for sure mumins are least bothered about garbage, the hadiths.
.

The punishment for thievery is to cut their hands (5:38)

I take up your quranic citation as an instance to teach you how to see the ayats in righteousness; for Allah says with His ayats He conducts in righteousness who He wish; and lets go astray who He wish. And Allah conducts in righteousness those who look up to Him for guidance with humility and total submission. So here is the verse:

" As to the thief, Male or female, cut off their hands as punishment from Allah for what they had earned; and Allah is Exalted in power."

Cut off their hands means ...

" Do not shake hands with them; treat them as forbidden as a punishment from Allah for what they had earned; and Allah is Exalted in Power."

So never tresspass the limits of punishment like you are a cruel people; for Allah loves those who show Mercy and kindness and forgive with restraint. If you believe Allah is Wise and Mighty you do not decide and order extreme power of execution, especially when the guilty plead Mercy and vow to correct themselves.  Now let's recite the next ayat, 5:39:

5: 39
But whoso repents after his wrongdoing and amends, verily! Allah relents toward him. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Hence, if one is a muslim he has to maintain peace with Allah all the time and Follow Him all through his life. Allah is Merciful, Forgiving! So we are expected to Follow Him. This is Quran and the Guidance. If you had physically cut off his hands, then there is no way you can give his hands back to him by way of relenting or forgiving.

Genteel I can teach you quran and guide you in righteousness for every ayat you had ridiculed, but I advise you to relearn yourself after unlearning whatever you have learned thus far on islam and quran.
.

[ImamQuranonly]

As Salaamu Alaikum moderators,

Quote:

Forum Rules - READ!
? on: May 19, 2004, 09:17:31 AM ? 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2] Please note that this forum is primarily dedicated to the study and understanding of the Scripture (Quran). Thus, mocking it or not being able to back-up claims with specifics will all result in deletion of such posts and/or removal of topic and/or disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.

So why are trash posts like this allowed to exist without even a warning? (or was there one?)

Quran is not at all a good detailed and consistent book to study because stories are concise, patched up and often inaccurately and inconsistently repeated and spread out at various stages throughout. This is due to its compilation process from fragmented pieces and orations collected from various parchments from various locations and pieced together and then completely modified and enhanced. Several people were involved in this process and in those days they had no means to proof-read. It is for this very reason, why Muslims are having a tough time understanding it and the obvious heated disagreements amongst them and all others.

In Islam especially, priesthood is the grandiosity of their holy book blanketing Reality. It is like dark clouds over earth cutting off from outside world. It does not give you space to think, reason and excel. In one instance it tells you to verify information, to reflect upon the signs of heavens and earth, to recall and remember past events while on the other, it commands you to strictly obey nothing other than the silly laws, threats and proclamations it states within. Islam thrives upon enforcing vestigial (degenerated), immature, dangerous and often misunderstood Quranic exercises, let alone God's words. This is obviously a major disease in Islam that needs severely dealt with.

The punishment for thievery is to cut their hands (5:38), the punishment for disorderly conduct of a wife is to beat her up (4:34) or lock her up until death do her apart (4:15), the punishment for adultery is lashing them out a 100 (24:2), the punishment for accusing married women for adultery is 80 lashes (24:4), the punishment for disbelief in God is to sever hands and feet on alternate sides or crucify them on palm trees or to test and outcast the other as to who is better in torturing (20:71, 7:124), and to find them wherever they are, seize them, slay them and torture them (4:89), and give them hellish drinks with painful punishment (6:70, 10:4), clothes of fire and hellish drinks poured over their heads (22:19, 44:48), and hellish drinks and bitter food (38:57), and abide in hellfire forever with hellish drinks that tear apart intestines (47:15), and eat from trees of bitterness filling bellies topping with boiling hellish water and drinking like camels (56:52-55), and fuelled with people and rocks in hellfire (2:24, 66:6), and hell filled with communities of humans and jinns getting roasted (7:38, 7:179, 11:119, 32:13), and skins are burnt repeatedly with new ones (4:56), and those who refuse to fight along with Muhammad are also thrown in hell (8:16), and disbelievers will be piled on top of each other and thrown in hell (8:37), and beaten up by angels on faces and rear-ends (8:50), and gold and silver will be heated to burn foreheads, sides and backs (9:35), and when hell cools down it increases again (17:97), people will neither die nor stay alive in hell (20:74), anyone criticizing/challenging the Quran will also abide in hell (22:51), and people with the slightest disbelief/light-hearted will incur hell forever (23:103), children and adults following their parents will also abide in hell (31:21), people who try to leave hell will be forced back (32:20), and friends will be seen in hell (37:55), a tree that grows in hell whose flowers look like devil?s heads and people/jinns will eat them until their bellies are filled and then given hellish drinks after which they will return back to getting burned and find our parents and most previous generations getting cooked (37:64-71), even prophet?s wives incur hell (66:10), and people will feud amongst them in hell (38:64), and some will be chained in 70 arms length and burnt in hell (69:31-32), special God?s body guards (19 angels) assigned to protect hell (74:31), people will be in chains, shackles and blazing fire (76:4), and wrath of God to abide in hell forever (half the Quran is filled with these gruesome threats). Some of these silly threats and punishments are inconsistent and extremely funny (must be given a gold medal and authented in the guiness books of comics )

It is all because of opposing the prophet/messenger/apostle of an alleged man-made God, MR. Muhammad himself. It is known that Muhammad grew up parentless, became wealthy and reknowned after his marriage to a rich lady Khadija, had a severe mental disorder and began his pursuit of messengership as a schizophrenic narcist who did not even spare his own family members. It is no wonder (as stated in the Quran) he commanded his people to disobey their parents, break ties with all family members, relatives and friends and only marry and procreate among themselves who strictly followed in whatever he said and did. He even abused and condemned just about everyone who did not listen and submit to him and barely spared the ones who did.     

There's absolutely nothing in the Quran that is of any significance today that people never knew or don't know. The Muslims are simply lovin it by playing and twisting just about every word in the book. Some even deny everything that ever existed, including proper names and places and think that current dictionaries is all they need to explain the Quran. The more they do the more messier it becomes. The overall message conveyed by the Quran and in strict concordance and adherent is of total confusion and megalomaniac nature of a tyrant (the god of the Quran ~ Muhammad). Even an evil person can be seen "merciful" when it comes to his own family members, relatives, friends and followers displaying the good side of it. Take the examples of Hitler, Stalin, Saddam and now the Bush and his government. Quran aloners call all sorts of names to sunnies/shias including other Quran aloners whilst forgetting that their own families, relatives and friends are as such, and ofcourse vise versa.

Muslims are the only people on earth sweating hard to enforce their quranic views down other people's throats and among themselves in every which way they can. This is not seen in any other culture. Belief in God is NOT A LAW and Muslims cannot seem to understand this. Muhammad forced this law upon his people and all others he came in contact with and on those whom he had animosity with. People begged him for forgiveness and mercy to spare them their lives but only on conditions to obey him in every respect. If they didn't, then HELL broke loose (see above). In some cases where he could not defeat them or come to any consensus, he cursed them in the name of his idol Supreme God and sent them to Hell. It is said that there were around 700,000 ahadith collected after his death and only around 200,000 or less deemed "authentic" (sahih) while around 1/2 a million termed as "daeef" (weak). Why? Because majority of them depicted Muhammad as an intolerable schizophrenic warmonger and scholars were ashamed to bring the true Muhammad out. Muhammad also warned and insisted anyone from saying a word about him but that never happened and he got badly exposed, either by his own people or their ascendants. He forced and subjugated people to believe ONLY in him, impersonalizing his idol One and Only supreme god and taking his name in vain at every step of the way, just like all Muslims do today.

And those who "moved their tongues" or questioned/disbelieved in Muhammad's authority, he burnt them, massacred them, slaughtered them, ordered his men to find them wherever they are, cut off people's hands and feet on alternate sides, lashed and stoned people to death and forced his followers and others to fight them, all in the mercy of a merciful idol Allah whom he impersonalized. Allah was the most revered, the best of the best idols and Muhammad took undue advantage of this idol. Each time he would bring about a command or justify his sayings, he would immediately mention ?by Allah this and by Allah that? and ?Allah revealed this and Allah revealed that?, in exactly the same manner all Muslims today do with their idol book (Al Quran). Many of his opponents were begging for his mercy and forgiveness but he hardly spared them unless they surrendered in total obedience to him and submission to his idol God by bowings, prostrations, circumambulations and other offerings at Kaba where his god was throned. He also imposed jizya (29:9) on all disbelievers and requited/punished them severely for non-payment. He had more wives and concubines than others and forbade others from marry them while having others no more than 4 but 1 will do. He even exchanged slaves for trade. He forced people to change their direction of idolworshipping prayers from Jerusalem to Mecca just because he lost treaty with the Jews and was unable to defeat them and then cursed them. All of this and much more, exposes Muhammad's tyrant nature and ill intentions in the Quran, to bring about a religion called Islam, the footsteps of which are seen today.

Much of what I've mentioned is in the Quran crystal clear. There's abundance of information about this all over the net. Only Muslim apologists will deny them all and refute them in nonsensical, illogical, pitiful and laughable ways which they themselves cannot comprehend. Their ONLY circular reasoning is because the Quran says so and defies any logical criticism whatsoever. One of the Quran?s alleged yet most authentic divine command that all Muslims themselves disbelieve in, is that God himself forbade his own advocate to explain his words but only to deliver, yet the Muslims (including kids and the ignorant) act as if they are superior than their prophet and hence have special permissions from their man-made god to explain the Quran in its entirety without having any knowledge of it.

[Jack]

umm do you realize he got banned for this kind of behavior ?!

[ImamQuranonly]

umm do you realize he got banned for this kind of behavior ?!

You mean this guest poster got banned for this before?  If the answer is yes, how did he get this post up?  and why wasn't it deleted? 

It's insulting and mocking Al Quran without proofs and thus should be removed without warning IMHO.  I know this is "free-minds", but is it also free to mock and insult Al Quran?  Even with free speech in America, you can't run into a crowded theater and yell: "FIRE!"

[Jack]

When the user's name is un-clickable and/or it says 'guest' underneath it; it means the member has been either banned (most cases) or left the forum and deleted the account.

For the rest, you'll have to contact the Mods themselves.

[ImamQuranonly]

When the user's name is un-clickable and/or it says 'guest' underneath it; it means the member has been either banned (most cases) or left the forum and deleted the account.

For the rest, you'll have to contact the Mods themselves.

Thanks House M.D. for that info, I wasn't aware of that.  Hope that they delete the post now, but Im done. 

[drfazl]

It's insulting and mocking Al Quran without proofs and thus should be removed without warning IMHO.  I know this is "free-minds", but is it also free to mock and insult Al Quran?  Even with free speech in America, you can't run into a crowded theater and yell: "FIRE!"

.

Why do not the free-minds feel obliged to answer and teach firmly Genteel, while Quran is at hand... This is your chance to deal with ignorant and arrogant ... if we have the leave from Allah then go ahead ... do we have fear-minds, yet?