"Let's analyze 5-6 and 4-43"

[siki]

5-6  O you who believe, if you rise to attend the assembly, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe you heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you are filthy, then become clean; and if you are ill or traveling or you have excreted, or you have sexually touched the women, and you could not find water, then you shall do ablution from clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands. God does not want to make any hardship over you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative.


what i get out of this is,

1.  4 step wadu every time before salat  (even if one is clean)

2. And if you are unclean, then purify yourself.  what is this unclean ? how to purify one self ? and with what? is the cleaning only required for the relevent parts? or is it pointing towards bathing?

3. If one is clean and does not find water, then what?  probably salat allowed without wadu?

4. If one does not find water and he/she is been through the above mentioned 4 situations then wipe yourself with clean soil.

5. Does uncleanliness consist of only above mentioned 4 situations?

Now lets combine 4-43 with the above verse.

4-43 O you who believe, do not come near the assembly while you are drunk, until you know what you are saying. Nor dirty, except for travellers,(Abrii Sabeelin) until you wash. And if you are ill or traveling or one of you has excretion or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water: then you shall make ablution with clean soil by wiping your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.


6. NO salat till one cleans himself by a bath , so the purification in 5-6 is being clarified here by the word Ghusaloo, which is bathing.

7. Here Abrii sabeelin stays an exception to this rule of bathing , he can slat if he is unclean.

8. Who is this , or what is meant by Abrii Sabeelin?

9. He is understood to be a travelling person, but if he is so then why in next clause travelling (Saafariin) is being mentioned along the rest of three categories? (ill, touched women and been to toilet)

10. If we see the Arabic of the two verses , it is word by word same , the only difference being , ILLA Abrii Sabeelin.(Arabic verses are attached for easy viewing)


Your comments please.

siki

[siki]

So ,

If we are travelling , ill, been to toilet, or to the women, and we can find water ,   Do we always have to cleanse ourselves by bathing before salat?

Apparently these 4 things are grouped together, where as in normal practice, two are considered as concessions(ill, and travelling)

why "travelling" and "being sick" is grouped with going to toilet and having sex?

Do we have any other verse touching upon this issue of cleansing before salat?

Any explanation on "Aabri Sabeelin" any one?

Why  every one is keeping quite?    Come on  i need some input ,  please.

peace

siki

[tanveermd]

Salaam bro Sikandar,

From Project Root List:

Ayn-Ba-Ra = to cross, interpret, state clearly, pass over. i'tabara - to consider, ponder over, take into account, get experience from, take warming. abratun (pl. i'bar) -  regard/consideration, admonition, warning, example, instructive warning. abir (pl. abirina) - one who passes over. i'tabara - to take warning, learn a lesson.

Siin-Ba-Lam = cause, reason, way/path/road, necessity, means of access, responsibility, method/manner, plea to allege.
fi sabil Allah - in the way of Allah, in the cause of Allah, to carry the message of Allah.
ibn al-sabil - traveller, way farer, forlorn traveller.

Thus "3aabiree sabeel" would mean "crossing a way/road" or "passing over a way/road" i.e. traveling/journeying.

In addition to that, "junuban" in the context of 4:43 and 5:6 refers to "sexual intercourse and discharge of semen"  (refer to Jiim-Nun-Ba in PRL http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm).

In my understanding, combining 4:43 and 5:6, we hear about two situations:

1. WATER AVAILABLE:

a. If "junuban" + not traveling, then "ghusl"/shower/bathe with water;
b. If "junuban" + journeying/traveling, then only ablution;
c. Ablution in all other situations (which includes "junuban while traveling").

2. WATER NOT AVAILABLE:

a. If ill, traveling, after call of nature, and after sexual intercourse/"laamastumun-nisaa" (which does not imply seminal discharge necessarily), then wipe face and hands with clean soil;
b. In all other situations, NOTHING necessary (no ablution or wiping with clean soil).

[siki]

 Tanveer!   

Salam brother, and thanks for taking some time off your busy routine.

I agree with your analysis, here are my thoughts,

5-6,  .. Wa in kuntum junabaaen wa taharroo,,,,    this is probably the first order decalring the 4 step wadu and if one is in a state of junnab ( sexual encounter resulting into discharge of semen) stating a  requirement to purify ones self by cleaning.  As this cleaning/purifying was ambiguous, so in 4-43 this cleansing has been elaborated upon,  by declaring it a "Ghusul" (washing with water)

4-43 ,,, wala junabaan illa Abri sabeelin hatta taghtasillooo,,,,    not only that Tahroo is explained as to be Ghusalloo, but a concession sub clause is also added to the subject,  which is     

If one is in  a state of Junanaba but is out on a road somewhere , then he does not need to take a Ghusal,  probably a wadu with water will suffice, or if one does not find water then Tayyammam with soil.

If one is ill, travelling, been to toilet or has touched women sexually, (and it does not result into intercourse and discharge of semen), and if one does not find water, then one must carry out two step cleansing with clean soil. And in above cases if one finds water, then Normal wadu.

And if one does not find water , but is not through the above mentioned 4 situations , then one may perform salat without wadu.

Tanveer !  just recheck , if my elaboration is correct?

thanks

peace

siki

[tanveermd]

Salaam bro Sikandar,

Sounds ok.

If one is ill, travelling, been to toilet or has touched women, (which may not result into intercourse and discharge of semen) and if one does not find water, then one must carry out two step cleansing with clean soil.

I think, in this context, "laamastukumun-nisaa" implies any SEXUAL contact (not necessarily sexual intercourse). I don't think it refers to a formal shaking hands with a woman for example.

And in above cases if one finds water, then Normal wadu.

Except in case of "junuban"/sexual contact resulting in seminal discharge, when one has to bathe with water. "Laamastukumun-nisaa" includes "junuban" also, i.e. "junuban" is a subset of "laamastukumun-nisaa".

[siki]

Salaam bro Sikandar,

Sounds ok.

I think, in this context, "laamastukumun-nisaa" implies any SEXUAL contact (not necessarily sexual intercourse). I don't think it refers to a formal shaking hands with a woman for example.

ya correct,   i have modified my above post with correct wordings as you state/recommend.

siki

[OracleMir]

quick question.  by reading your post, i undertand that junuban means resulting in seminal discharge.  is this word specific to a man or are women also covered? this is where i am coming at: is quran addressing only men or women as well?

[siki]

Janabat is one of the derivative of root, jnb,  which was/is used to convey a number of  meanings. "Janabat" is a condition described as , "A situation after intercourse resluting into discharge of semen which makes a bath obligatory".

lane,

Jiim-Nun-Ba = To break or hit or hurt one's side, to lead one by his side, place or put a thing aside, to remove or send a thing far away or far off, estrange or alienate someone, descend and abode/settle as a stranger among people, to be remote/distant/far off/aloof from someone, shun or avoid someone, alienate or estrange oneself from someone, to be under the obligation of performing a total bath or ablution (by reason of sexual intercourse and semenal discharge), to be lateral or adjacent to someone or to a thing, walk by the side of another, to be gentle/compliant/easy to deal with, to be much of

As this aya starts with  O you believe,,,  so i guess it should hold good for both,

siki