Hirsi Ali

[jankren]

Oh! And I prefer dealing with 1000 traditional women  (who are more likely to hear a Qur'an alone based discussion)  than 1 ignorant (and stubborn) Ayaan Hhirsi  !

Has anyone ever told people like her about non-traditional Islam?

[Arnold Yasin]

Yes, she was confronted by moderate groups, but still she just attacked it. Her behaviour till now has only showed she is not interrested at all, she just wants to attack. Maybe in the future. But she is very hypocrite, as she rejects religions, but she works for the Christian thinktank of the American Government.

[BOOST]

PEace Bro

If she wrote a bunch of books on islam she should at least know what she's talking about. how do you write a book about islam and never hear of quran aloners? people seem to think this all started with us on free-minds. it didn't even start with rashad khalifa. there were a few whole madrasas that were dedicated to quran alone without hadith but these madrasas were supressed. also, ideas from leading imams and their students within well-known madrasas also professed very progressive ideas about women using the quran alone but were quickly supressed and considered blasphemous. so this is not a new idea. and it wouldn't take much effort for someone who asserts that she is an expert about islam to find these thoughts. they aren't destroyed. they're still there, they're just frowned upon. fatima mernissi explains it in her writing. so does laila ahmed. hirsi ali seems to be an expert on her own personal experience that is tainted with african culture, family problems, and a sunni backdrop. genital mutilation happens nowhere else in the world except africa. it is an old old african tradition dating back to nubian antiquity and maybe even earlier. in fact the most extreme form is called the pharoanic circumcision. i think everyone would respect her alot more if she just stuck to explaining her life rather than pretending to be an inside expert on islam.

[Roshan]

Peace:

She is a performing animal. She has rehearsed a routine and repeats it to those who want to hear it. Unfortunately the Sunni/Shia types are too stupid to rebutt her points (in fact some of them may have some legitimacy in those religions). The right wing are becoming more and more acquainted with the Sunni religion and their hierarchy responds by showing resentment at the fact such questions should be asked.

Have you seen her film 'submission'?

Roshan

[Arnold Yasin]

No, she hasn't heard of them, and even if she did, she would not accept their views. Because she would believe it only to be a modern trend that will also disappear eventualy. She is hardcore atheist. She is out there to tell Islam is wrong, she is not out there to find an acceptable Islam or acceptable belief in the Quran. Not in the way she is acting now. And she now works for the hardcore rightwing of the American politics, I doubt she will accept any form of belief in the Quran.

By the way Boost, Fatima Mernissi is also from Holland, and I must say sadly that her writings also dissappoint me mostly. She is also stuck with traditional Islam, and doesn't know or accept that this wasn't the original Islam. She is trying a new view on Islam, reforming it, believing she is deviating from Muhammed's Islam. For example her book on Democracy in Islam only focusses on the monarchies in Islamic history, and completely ignores the fact that the Quran refers to Democracy.

[jankren]

No, she hasn't heard of them, and even if she did, she would not accept their views. Because she would believe it only to be a modern trend that will also disappear eventualy. She is hardcore atheist. She is out there to tell Islam is wrong, she is not out there to find an acceptable Islam or acceptable belief in the Quran. Not in the way she is acting now. And she now works for the hardcore rightwing of the American politics, I doubt she will accept any form of belief in the Quran.

As I said earlier, her hatred for everything related to Islam is probably caused by trauma due to the tragedy which befell her. I think all she need is someone to explain everything to her kindly and patiently. I believe that way she would eventually understand because Im sure she is way more rational than average people.

[Arnold Yasin]

Let's see what happens when my book comes out. I'm writing a book now in Dutch on the Quranic System and how Islam was distorted into a religion by the Persian Abbasids. If she responds to that positively, then I will be convinced. Hope is always there. But if the Quranic System also intervenes with her plans, she will of course also reject it. She doesn't work for the right wing of America's thinktank for nothing, she likes that enviroment of the elite.

[jankren]

Let's see what happens when my book comes out. I'm writing a book now in Dutch on the Quranic System and how Islam was distorted into a religion by the Persian Abbasids. If she responds to that positively, then I will be convinced. Hope is always there. But if the Quranic System also intervenes with her plans, she will of course also reject it. She doesn't work for the right wing of America's thinktank for nothing, she likes that enviroment of the elite.

Hmm sounds interesting. Are you gonna make your book accessible for us here in English?

[Arnold Yasin]

Yes, I write it similtaneously in English. When I write a chapter in Dutch, I translate it also in English, here is a small part that I have translated already:

Part of my new book 'The Challenge of Islam: What Islam made such a succes and why it can be again in the future'.

Translated from Dutch into English

Chapter 'Religion or System?'

The Quran challenges mankind constantly. To write a similair Surah, not only in style and beauty, but especially in result of the Laws it gives. Even the existence of Allah must be tested, it cannot be based on blind belief. It must be based on evidence and not emotion or feelings. Because of this, the Quran introduced an approach to life and God which was unfound in any Religion on earth.

2:23 (For the real skeptic We have a reason friendly offer.) If you are still in doubt concerning that which We have revealed unto Our servant (Muhammad), call and set up (a committee, commission, organization, association of the highest order) all your helpers besides Allah, and then produce just one Surah like this, if you are men of Truth.

[[Bring some chapters of comparable merit that even come close to it in magnificence, eloquence, grandeur and wisdom 10:38, 11:13, 17:88.]

To bring in the Theory of the Quran into Practice was a matter of faith, after man had observed some of the claims it gives. The bringing into practice was only partially based on faith. But its difference with Religions is that the results of the Quranic Laws can be experienced immediately or over long term in this life. The reward or punishment was not completely moved unto the next life, which makes it then untestable, but the results are partially given in this life. This was a Revolution of thinking which was unheard in mankind's thinking. Because of this, people could test immediately if they followed and understood the Laws correctly.

3:191 .... "Our Lord! You have not created all this without Purpose. High Above You are from creating anything in vain! Save us, then, from being negligent in attaining knowledge and thus, getting condemned to Fire.”

Any bye-laws could be adapted in when they gave no more positive results. In this way people prevented to be stuck in tradition or following of useless laws and beliefs. All concepts of Islam are thus possible to be tested, and the correct understanding will always stick out because of its result in this life.

17:36 And you shall not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning. (And so, the insane and the disabled will have their incapacities taken into account in a court of law.)

[SwedenMajidah]

Salam,

I haven't heard of her but I have heard of that "submission" film and the death of the journalist Theo van Gogh.

But I'm not surprised at all, muslims from extreme conditions are often very angry and seek for revenge.

she is blind and she cannot see the truth in that state she is in right now.

We can always hope she will come to realisations of the truth in Islam and Quran.

Peace
Sis Majidah