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My situation.

Started by Wannabefree, January 16, 2007, 06:29:51 PM

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andy

Salaam sister wannabefree, all,
Quote from: Wannabefree on January 17, 2007, 05:27:54 AM
Salaam to all of you!

The salaafi-sect includes people who can't do anything, can't even have there own opinion in a question, without first checking what ulema says about it...
I am wondering why they cannot even think that whom they call ulama are also human beings. Even worse when those ulama give the explanations from hadiths, which we all know are corrupted and not authentic.

QuoteThey follow men like Ibn Baz, Ibn Uthaymeen, Madkhali and al-Albani and are often called "wahabis"(for following Muhammad ibn ?Abdul-Wahh?b from Saudiarabia) by those who don't agree with the salaafipath. Salaafiyun are following EVERY SINGLE DETAIL from sunnah.
If we want to be honest, they don't follow every single detail from hadiths. They do cherrypick from hadiths.

For examples:

Shahih Muslim Book 016, Number 4130:

    Anas b. Malik reported that some people belonging (to the tribe) of 'Uraina came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) at Medina, but they found its climate uncogenial. So Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to them: If you so like, you may go to the camels of Sadaqa and drink their milk and urine. They did so and were all right. They then fell upon the shepherds and killed them and turned apostates from Islam and drove off the camels of the Prophet (may peace be upon him). This news reached Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and he sent (people) on their track and they were (brought) and handed over to him. He (the Holy Prophet) got their hands cut off, and their feet, and put out their eyes, and threw them on the stony ground until they died.


I have never seen salafy drink camel's urine.

Regarding such cherrypicking from books other than quran:

68:35 Should We treat the ones who surrendered the same as those who are criminals?
68:36 What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
68:37 Or do you have another book which you study?
68:38 In it, you can find what you wish?
68:39 Or do you have an oath from Us, extending until the Day of Resurrection, that you can judge as you please?
68:40 Ask them: "Who of them will make such a claim?"

QuoteMy husband is a good man really but I find it very boring that he never ever can have his own opinion. But I am "working" on him ;)
;)

Wannabefree

as-salaamu alaikum to all of you!

Quote from: andy on January 17, 2007, 09:25:52 PM
Salaam sister wannabefree, all,I am wondering why they cannot even think that whom they call ulama are also human beings. Even worse when those ulama give the explanations from hadiths, which we all know are corrupted and not authentic.
If we want to be honest, they don't follow every single detail from hadiths. They do cherrypick from hadiths.

For examples:

Shahih Muslim Book 016, Number 4130:

    Anas b. Malik reported that some people belonging (to the tribe) of 'Uraina came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) at Medina, but they found its climate uncogenial. So Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to them: If you so like, you may go to the camels of Sadaqa and drink their milk and urine. They did so and were all right. They then fell upon the shepherds and killed them and turned apostates from Islam and drove off the camels of the Prophet (may peace be upon him). This news reached Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and he sent (people) on their track and they were (brought) and handed over to him. He (the Holy Prophet) got their hands cut off, and their feet, and put out their eyes, and threw them on the stony ground until they died.


I have never seen salafy drink camel's urine.

Regarding such cherrypicking from books other than quran:

68:35 Should We treat the ones who surrendered the same as those who are criminals?
68:36 What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
68:37 Or do you have another book which you study?
68:38 In it, you can find what you wish?
68:39 Or do you have an oath from Us, extending until the Day of Resurrection, that you can judge as you please?
68:40 Ask them: "Who of them will make such a claim?"
;)

I also used that argument, that ulema is only human, but then they say that if ulema sais something right and good, they will get a double reward for it from Allaah swt, and if they say something wrong and not good, they will get half the reward anyway...

You brought up the example of drinking urine, and I don't know for sure, but my husband said there is one hadith where Muhammed saws is drinking milk and a fly falls into it, and someone(I don't remember who) wants to take the fly away from the milk, but Muhammed saws sais one wing of the fly does bad, but the other wing makes the bad disappear, and then he drank the fly. And one morning the same thing happend to my husband, and he drank it... I told him not to, but he said its sunnah to do so. He didn't get any kisses that day ;)

Quote from: andy on January 17, 2007, 09:07:36 PM
In Germany, there are also salafis. I remember one salafy woman wearing full hijab and only her eyes can be seen. Everybody was looking at her. Some also screamed at her. I believe such a situation must be extremely hard for every single salafy woman. I don't know how about you sis ...I would like to hear some stories if you don't mind.

It is hard to wear that kind of veil, and I don't even show my eyes. The other day I went outside with only khimar(those big black things you look like a ghost in) and I didn't wear niqaab over my face. I thought I was going to feel free, but I didn't. Maybe I will in some time. People are calling me bad things, they are sometimes violent, and threatening towards me. As my username implies I want to stop all this, I just don't know how. I know my husband will be hurt. But I cant live like this. I don't believe in it.


Quote from: andy on January 17, 2007, 09:07:36 PM
In Bible there is also wisdom.
And wisdom can be found at the back of the milk cartons too...
Quote from: andy on January 17, 2007, 09:07:36 PM
I believe hadiths are valuable as historical reports. The problem with salafs, sunnis, and shias is they take hadiths as divine revelations just like quran.
May Allah increase our knowledge sis.
Agreed upon!

wa salaam

Alen

Salam.

Wannabefree, you just be patient and God willing, He will find a way for you to be completely free and safe from such people.
In the near future, many people will be angry over me, God forbid but when i say what's on my mind, God willing, things will change in the world, especially in the Islamic world.

Peace.
39:53 Say: ?O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of God\'s mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.?

BOOST

Peace sis Wannabefree

i've always wanted to dress in full khimar just to see the reaction of others. i don't agree with khimar being necessary for modesty but it always amazes me when people treat others horribly over something so trivial as their clothing.

God bless you to have to deal with other people's crap!

andy

Salam sister Wannabefree, all,
Quote from: Wannabefree on January 18, 2007, 05:41:55 AM
as-salaamu alaikum to all of you!

I also used that argument, that ulema is only human, but then they say that if ulema sais something right and good, they will get a double reward for it from Allaah swt, and if they say something wrong and not good, they will get half the reward anyway...
Actually, when talking about the so called ulamas, the first question should be: Who give the title ulama? Sunnis, shias, salafis, christians, jews all have their own ulamas.

Regarding this, Allah has given examples to learn from the quran:

9:31 They took their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god but He, be He glorified for what they set up.


Indeed ...

7:1 Alif. Lam. Mim.
7:2 A DIVINE WRIT has been bestowed from on high upon thee -and let there be no doubt about this in thy heart-in order that thou mayest warn [the erring] thereby, and [thus] admonish the believers:
7:3 "Follow what has been sent down unto you by your Sustainer, and follow no masters other than Him. How seldom do you keep this in mind!

QuoteYou brought up the example of drinking urine, and I don't know for sure, but my husband said there is one hadith where Muhammed saws is drinking milk and a fly falls into it, and someone(I don't remember who) wants to take the fly away from the milk, but Muhammed saws sais one wing of the fly does bad, but the other wing makes the bad disappear, and then he drank the fly.
I know that hadith. It must be this one:

Shahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."


QuoteAnd one morning the same thing happend to my husband, and he drank it... I told him not to, but he said its sunnah to do so. He didn't get any kisses that day ;)
LOL ...  ;)

Does he lick somebody else's fingers (not your fingers - LOL) after meal?

Shahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 65, Number 366:

    Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

    The Prophet said, 'When you eat, do not wipe your hands till you have licked it, or had it licked by somebody else."


Bring up also this hadith and ask him: "Will you let me get suckled by grown up men when they come to our house?":

Shahih Malik Muwatta Book 30, Number 30.2.12:

    Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab that he was asked about the suckling of an older person. He said, ''Urwa ibn az-Zubayr informed me that Abu Hudhayfa ibn Utba ibn Rabia, one of the companions of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, who was present at Badr, adopted Salim (who is called Salim, the mawla of Abu Hudhayfa) as the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, adopted Zayd ibn Haritha. He thought of him as his son, and Abu Hudhayfa married him to his brother's sister, Fatima bint al-Walid ibn Utba ibn Rabia, who was at that time among the first emigrants. She was one of the best unmarried women of the Quraysh. When Allah the Exalted sent down in His Book what He sent down about Zayd ibn Haritha, 'Call them after their true fathers. That is more equitable in the sight of Allah. If you do not know who their fathers were then they are your brothers in the deen and your mawali,' (Sura 33 ayat 5) people in this position were traced back to their fathers. When the father was not known, they were traced to their mawla.

    "Sahla bint Suhayl who was the wife of Abu Hudhayfa, and one of the tribe of Amr ibn Luayy, came to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said, 'Messenger of Allah! We think of Salim as a son and he comes in to see me while I am uncovered. We only have one room, so what do you think about the situation?' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'Give him five drinks of your milk and he will be mahram by it.' She then saw him as a foster son. A'isha umm al-muminin took that as a precedent for whatever men she wanted to be able to come to see her. She ordered her sister, Umm Kulthum bint Abi Bakr as-Siddiq and the daughters of her brother to give milk to whichever men she wanted to be able to come in to see her. The rest of the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, refused to let anyone come in to them by such nursing. They said, 'No! By Allah! We think that what the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered Sahla bint Suhayl to do was only an indulgence concerning the nursing of Salim alone. No! By Allah! No one will come in upon us by such nursing!'

    "This is what the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, thought about the suckling of an older person."


QuoteIt is hard to wear that kind of veil, and I don't even show my eyes. The other day I went outside with only khimar(those big black things you look like a ghost in) and I didn't wear niqaab over my face. I thought I was going to feel free, but I didn't. Maybe I will in some time. People are calling me bad things, they are sometimes violent, and threatening towards me. As my username implies I want to stop all this, I just don't know how. I know my husband will be hurt. But I cant live like this. I don't believe in it.
I understand that sis. May Allah give the best solution.

QuoteAnd wisdom can be found at the back of the milk cartons too
Absolutely agree!

SarahY

Not all ahadith are related as authentic even the ones in Bukhari, though that's not the point.

In regards to your situation, isn't following a scholar blind following without proof? Can you be certain that someone says something is a fact without checking just to make sure for your own sake? When we get judged can we say scholar so and so told us so? Will we get questioned why we follow the scholar? Is accepting a hadith because Bukhari and Muslim said that they are authentic and did istikhara for all those hadith enough to say that they are all authentic? Just because those scholars studied hadith does it mean we should stop and accept their conclusion without scrutinizing?

And Jankren that's a generalisation anyone can make in any culture. My background is Arab, and I don't wish to marry an Arab. Everyone has different preferences. Cultures were created so that you can learn from them it doesn't mean you have to adapt it, the way of the Salaf isn't "Arab" not all Arabs are like that is what I'm saying, it?s a personal choice.

Asalamu alaikum
We all have blind spots.
Follow your heart but take your brain with you.
ambiguity is there for a reason, why do you think?
We're all different, so how can we all be equal?

jankren

Okay people Im sorry, sometimes my prejudice got the best of me.

Peace,


"We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians."
- Nelson Mandela

"Hesitation leads to masturbation."
- Socrates