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Research on the Arabic meanings of Jinn and the Quranic contexts

Started by Arnold Yasin, December 02, 2006, 03:16:31 PM

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thegod

Quote# yes...u say u will try to show...but i dont see where u show this...u simply start applying ur assumption! ;-)

# the above should read "yes...u say u will try to show...but i dont see where u show this...u simply start applying ur assumption! :-)"

thegod

Quotemaxq wrote:
Hey man, if you can change your name ID, that would be great...

# i dont aim to stay around that long...in the meanwhile i can offer atleast 3 possible solutions:

...think of thegod as a single nonsensical word...no meaning at all...(i think i read somewhere that if a word has a meaning it cannot be a "name/proper noun")....thats 1 (solution)! :-)

Quoteit is really disturbing to address you the way your current ID is.

# :-( ...but u dont need to addess me this way (if the 1st solution fails):

...use tg instead of thegod! that's second! :-)

# third: not-thegod...yeah...a bit lenghty! :-)

QuotePlease do not mind...

# not at all bro! :-)

Quoteor not...

# yeah...perhaps not! :-)

Quoteand how can you prove the "if"?

# ?

Quoteagreed, but one is commanded not to believe in whatever is said by someone else...

# do u know my beliefs? or on what i have based my beliefs? :-)

...where did the folklore fly in from? :-)

Quoteone must verify him/herself, independently. Refer to 17:36!

# 17:36...hmmm...yeah...i remember...but that will be another tale in itself! :-S

# okay..not a snub or something...but now that u have talked about verification...when u quote a historian or a lexicologist...do u verify the information s/he provides?

Quoteand yours

# yeah bro! :-)

thegod

# i remember somebody once said djinns are ur fantasies...and i remarked that he should note that he said "ur fantasies"...but u dont say "ur djinns"!

# ...a similar propostion:

v have read in the quran "zannakum", "hawahu", "nafsaka"...

...show me an instance of djinnahu..djinnakum..or like! :-)

maxq

Quote from: thegod on December 16, 2006, 02:57:51 PM
v have read in the quran "zannakum", "hawahu", "nafsaka"...

...show me an instance of djinnahu..djinnakum..or like! :-)
yes precisely, Djin refers not to just a part of our conscious, but rather an attribute of being concealed... from that perspective, if there is extraterristrial life in the universe, whose existance is hidden from us, can also be considered "Djin". And they need not be made of energy... nafs is not the same kind of attribute bro.
בשס האלה השדי והרחס - האלה ור השמים והארץ

nerspi

peace

what about
38:37 And the devils, building and diving.
YUSUFALI: As also the evil ones, (including) every kind of builder and diver,-
PICKTHAL: And the unruly, every builder and diver (made We subservient),
SHAKIR: And the shaitans, every builder and diver,

it implies here that devils (evil ones or unruly or shaitans) worked for solomon, so are these things mentined humans who let their desperate side take over or beings made of actual fire?

can anyone please tell me who are the ones in control.
and where is our good side? if the desperate side refused to serve, who did serve? the ones in control, who are they?
are they our good side or are they beings made of actual light?

maxq

Salam nerspi,

That depends how you translate the words... Shayaateen does not necessarily mean supernatural devilish beings, but rather those who are unruley and defiant, including men themselves - refer to the last three verses of chapter 114. And winds made subserviant does not mean David was given supernatural powers. Mankind has harnessed the power of wind and water in the last two centuries... foremost example is electric power. These verses mean that Soloman may have been the first king in this region to realize the use of science and reason as a means of progress in Southern Arabia (not unlike Kurosh/Cyrus, which makes for an interesting parallel.)

Now let us look at the translation:

38:35 Solomon prayed, "O My Lord! Absolve my imperfections and bestow upon me the gift an unprecedented (leadership of a) kingdom. Verily, You are the Giver of Gifts.? [He did not wish to leave his great kingdom in incompetent hands and in all probability was thinking of merit in preference over lineage.]

38:36 So We gave him the knowledge (which you, mankind, will eventually call science,) of making the wind serve him: It took (his ships) where (he) intended. [Refer to 34:12. Also, we use wind technology for generating electric power. Does that mean we have been given supernatural powers? Solomon must have taken advantage of the Red sea and Arabian ocean to have mass commerce with various nations. "Reeh" refered well-directed wind and not any random gust: This wind can be harnessed for sailing!]

38:37 And (for building and driving his ships, We) made subservient to him (even) the ravenous/defiant (men) ? every kind of builder and navigator. [refer to 21:82 and 34:13. Also, please show me another example in the Quran where supernatural devils are portrayed as those who can build and drive anything. Can men not build and navigate that Solomon had to be given magical beings?]

Regards,
Max
בשס האלה השדי והרחס - האלה ור השמים והארץ

thegod

Quotemaxq wrote:
yes precisely, Djin refers not to just a part of our conscious,

# whether it (djinn) refers to a part of our conscious is what v are discussing! :-)

Quotebut rather an attribute of being concealed...from that perspective, if there is extraterristrial life in the universe, whose existance is hidden from us, can also be considered "Djin".

# v are trying to determine whether the quran rules out usage of the word "djinn" to denote a certain creation...the way it uses the word "insan" to denote another creation! :-)

QuoteAnd they need not be made of energy...

# ?

Quotenafs is not the same kind of attribute bro.

# nafs...zanna...hawa...all of these are related to humans...

and have been used in a way that denotes that they belong to/are part of humans:
...nafsaka
...hawahu
...zannakum
...bagyihim

but v find no such usage of the word "djinn"! :-)

# all there is, is an assumption that "djinn" in some verses means "part of our conscious"! :-)

## and yeah bro...what about the verification thing? :-)

maxq

בשס האלה השדי והרחס - האלה ור השמים והארץ

thegod

Quotenerspi wrote:
what about
38:37 And the devils, building and diving.
YUSUFALI: As also the evil ones, (including) every kind of builder and diver,-
PICKTHAL: And the unruly, every builder and diver (made We subservient),
SHAKIR: And the shaitans, every builder and diver,

it implies here that devils (evil ones or unruly or shaitans) worked for solomon, so are these things mentined humans who let their desperate side take over or beings made of actual fire?

can anyone please tell me who are the ones in control.
and where is our good side? if the desperate side refused to serve, who did serve? the ones in control, who are they?
are they our good side or are they beings made of actual light?

# the word "shaytan" is used for both humans and djinns...solomon's armies also consisted of djinns, and i feel these djinns were the shayatin from amongst them! :-)

## peace! :-)

maxq

Like I said... you're free to choose to believe in fairytales. Goodbye!
בשס האלה השדי והרחס - האלה ור השמים והארץ