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Research on the Arabic meanings of Jinn and the Quranic contexts

Started by Arnold Yasin, December 02, 2006, 03:16:31 PM

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Arnold Yasin

Peace,

Here is my result after a long research on the word Jinn as given in the Quran and the Arabic language:

http://19.org/index.php?id=91,417,0,0,1,0

nerspi

selam

i've read the article and it's interesting.

what i was wondering though was if iblis is what Allah calls our evil, desperate, frustrated side, then what is our good side called?

these powers of nature, who or what is that? are they our good side?

maxq

בשס האלה השדי והרחס - האלה ור השמים והארץ

Arnab

Salam Arnold,
EXCELLENT article! While I have some differences of opinion on some of the points you made, at this point I can completely agree with your understanding of the word "jinn"
Quoted from the conclusion of your article you said:
"I believe, I have proven that the word jinn, doesn?t has a fixed meaning, as it is depended on the context of the verses."
Absolutely! I also agree that Shaitan and Malikah are not proper nouns (names of people).
In the opening of your article you wrote:
"One of the biggest problems today with interpretation of the Quran, is the concept of leaving words untranslated. The idea that some words are titles, fixed meanings, can create confusing and contradicting subjects. Also it has taken away many important messages which Allah through the Quran tries to teach us."
Very well written!
While there are some minor points that I have come to different conclusions on, I am excited to see someone examining the classical arabic in such an open minded and scientific way. I look forward to reading more of what you come up with.
Salam and Thank you,
Arnab


thegod

Quotearnold yasin wrote:
Here is my result after a long research on the word Jinn as given in the Quran and the Arabic language:

http://19.org/index.php?id=91,417,0,0,1,0

# ur hypothesis (quite like another 1 i remember reading here) has many assumptions, and grows on these! :-)

## much of the reference is extra-quranic...and does not seem to contribute to an understanding in the light of quran...rather in a light of other than quran's! :-)

## peace! :-)

maxq

Hi thegod,
I guess people will believe what they continute to choose to believe... there has been enough discussion on the Djin... I completely agree with Arnold and have come to the same conclusion with independent analysis.
If you choose to believe in folklore, that's your choice.
בשס האלה השדי והרחס - האלה ור השמים והארץ

thegod

Quotemaxq wrote:
Hi thegod,

# hi maxq! :-)

QuoteI guess people will believe what they continute to choose to believe...

# yeah..i think so too! :-)

Quotethere has been enough discussion on the Djin...

# if that's what u feel! :-)

QuoteI completely agree with Arnold and have come to the same conclusion with independent analysis.

# cool...perhaps u read the same books! :-)

QuoteIf you choose to believe in folklore, that's your choice.

# if i do! :-)

...by ur own criteron and going by what u believe in at the moment...u do...ur "independently analysed" belief has been around for a long time!

## ..but like u said...its ur choice! :-)   

Arnold Yasin

Quote from: thegod on December 16, 2006, 03:23:42 AM
# ur hypothesis (quite like another 1 i remember reading here) has many assumptions, and grows on these! :-)

## much of the reference is extra-quranic...and does not seem to contribute to an understanding in the light of quran...rather in a light of other than quran's! :-)

## peace! :-)


Peace,

dear not-thegod, the word jinn is a description of an attribute, this can be shared by many things. It is not a title of a species. So i have researched what the attribute describes according to the context of the verses.

If you draw a different conclusion that the description is a title, then please do so. But as long as you can't go into the subject with more depth, all of your feedback is unfounded.

Peace...

maxq

Quote from: thegod on December 16, 2006, 09:35:05 AM
# hi maxq! :-)
Hey man, if you can change your name ID, that would be great... it is really disturbing to address you the way your current ID is. Please do not mind...

Quote from: thegod on December 16, 2006, 09:35:05 AM
# cool...perhaps u read the same books! :-)
or not...

Quote from: thegod on December 16, 2006, 09:35:05 AM
# if i do! :-)
and how can you prove the "if"?

Quote from: thegod on December 16, 2006, 09:35:05 AM
...by ur own criteron and going by what u believe in at the moment...u do...ur "independently analysed" belief has been around for a long time!
agreed, but one is commanded not to believe in whatever is said by someone else... one must verify him/herself, independently. Refer to 17:36!

Quote from: thegod on December 16, 2006, 09:35:05 AM
## ..but like u said...its ur choice! :-)   
and yours :)
בשס האלה השדי והרחס - האלה ור השמים והארץ

thegod

Quotearnod yasin wrote:
dear not-thegod,

# :-S ...yes dear bro... :-)

Quotethe word jinn is a description of an attribute, this can be shared by many things. It is not a title of a species.

# ...that it cannot be used as a "title" to denote a "species"...a la "insan"... is what u will establish...right?

QuoteSo i have researched what the attribute describes according to the context of the verses.

# cool! :-)

QuoteIf you draw a different conclusion that the description is a title, then please do so.

# that exactly is the point...to draw a conclusion...but even before u establish ur claim.....u make the assumption that it is correct! :-)

below i quote from ur article:

QuoteOne of the biggest problems today with interpretation of the Quran, is the concept of leaving words untranslated. The idea that some words are titles, fixed meanings, can create confusing and contradicting subjects. Also it has taken away many important messages which Allah through the Quran tries to teach us. So what I’ll try to show in this book, is that the Quran contains no titles, except for a few names of persons and places. Thus approaching words in the Quran, not as titles, but as words with meanings itself relevant through the contexts of the verses. Making it subjective to the context, and not one-given meaning as would be, by approaching it as titles. Leaving the words not untranslated, or a filled in meaning from history, but translating them exactly to what they mean in the Arabic. This can give surprising and exciting results.

# there...u already conclude...and u have hardly started...that
Quoteit has taken away many important messages which Allah through the Quran tries to teach us.

# ok..let's say it's kinda foreword or something...and that u will prove ur point ahead....let's read further:

QuoteSo what I’ll try to show in this book, is that the Quran contains no titles, except for a few names of persons and places.

# yes...u say u will try to show...but i dont see where u show this...u simply start applying ur assumption! ;-)

below is an illustration:

QuoteThe verses where Iblis and shaitan are used, are almost all directly linked to human’s creation, and thus coincides with something within humans itself, that was created first/before/ thought up.

"..and thus coincides with something within humans itself, that was created first/before/ thought up."

how did u conclude that?

QuoteBut as long as you can't go into the subject with more depth, all of your feedback is unfounded.

# looking forward to hearing from u! :-)

## speaking of unfounded stuff...if i remember correctly...u had once copy-pasted an article on jesus's death...and claimed that it (the article) was irrefutable!

...the article claimed that "wafat" in the context of quran means death and (that) taking away the soul is nothing but death....

...i had pointed this out but u didnt respond...guess u missed it...or maybe i missed it...anyhow...would be nice to get ur response to that too!

not a discussion...just whether u agree with that article's claim!  :-)

# peace! peace! :-)