End of Time Hadith?

[BH]

I am reading a book called the Heart of Islam: Enduring Values for Humanity by Seyyed Hossein Nasr.  In this book he qoutes a supposed hadith from the Prophet: "My community shall never agree on error"

However, when you look at hadith about the end of time you see that the community has pretty much apostasized with the non-Muslim world even worse off:

http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/qiyaam2.html

In fact,from what I have read from other sites it seems the Madhi leads a very small band of faithful against the dajjal and although there will be people who claim Islam for their religion, the vast majority  are in greivous error.  I remember a supposed qoute from the Prophet as saying that worthless people would arise from his community to lead people into error or something like that.

What are your comments?

[Samia]

CONCEITED PEOPLE:

Hadhrat Abbas (R.A) narrates that Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) has said, "Islam will spread far and wide, across the seas. Horses will cross the land and seas in the cause of Jihaad. Then a time will come wherein a group of people will emerge which recites the Quraan. They will claim,

'We have recited the Quraan and is there anyone who understands the Quraan better than us? There is NO ONE more proficient than us in the study of the Quraan.'

Then Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) asked the Sahaba, "Do you see any good in their claims?" The Sahaba replied, "No". Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) said, "But these conceited claimants will be from my Ummah and will be the fuel of the Fire."

from "Signs of Qiyamah" (excerpts)
by Mohammed Ali Ibn Zubair Ali

Are those "fuel of the Fire" the Quraan-aloners?

[savage_carrot]

I've heard this as well. Someone sent this to me a couple years back lamenting the ungodly quran aloners. I think it's a pre-emptive strike against people turning away from traditionalism and there is a strong possibility that it may have even been taking place at the time it was engineered, thus it's conception. Though the one I read had changed to something like 'They recite the quran alone' which was the sin. This one reads like it was the arrogance of their positions/mindset rather than the fact that they were reciting the quran. I've always found the hadith to be more mindboggling than nostradamus' prophecies and thus delved in neither to my satisfaction.

[Pazuzu]

I think it's a pre-emptive strike against people turning away from traditionalism and there is a strong possibility that it may have even been taking place at the time it was engineered, thus it's conception.

Peace, Carrot.

You pretty much such summed it up.

Here's how how I see it:

The process of Hadith innovations began sometime during the Ummayad Period. The corrupt Sultans of the so- called "Islamic Empire" would employ clerics and other cannonical personel to serve as "consultants".  It was easy for these sultans to require their clerics to innovate a hadith, and create for it a fictionnal chain of  "trusted and honest " narrators . It was in this way that the ycreated all those hadiths which contain laws that are not found in the Quran. They called these "Sunna of the Prophet", when , in truth, it was the Sunna of the Sultans themselves, enforced by the clerics who served them. This is much in the same way that these Sultans  used to employ poets in their "balat" to write poems to glorify them.

I've always found the hadith to be more mindboggling than nostradamus' prophecies and thus delved in neither to my satisfaction.

There is nothing mind-boggling about it. There must have been some truly honest souls ,even back  in those dark ages , who realized that the religion was being corrupted by these Hadiths, and who called for a return to the Quran. ( Don't think the Quran-alone movement is new..It's NOT ) . This small group of free-thinkers of course posed a danger to the Sultan's interests, so it was easy to imagine any one of these Sultans asking a cleric of his to innovate a hadith such as the one you pointed out. It all fits perfectly.

The idea that they planted in the minds of the masses, throughout these long centuries of darkness, was: "You people are too stupid to understand the Quran on your own. The Quran is a cryptic book full of hidden meanings, and it is only through us - your mullahs - that you can understand it "

So Carrot, you see, gradually, the people bgann to be afraid of trying to understand the Quran on their own, becasue the mullahs would always brandish hadiths in their faces such as:

" He who tries to interpret the Quran according to his opinion, will burn in Hell for all eternity ".
Or.
"There would arise a people from the progeny of this (man) who would recite the Qur'an glibly, but it would not go beyond their throats; they would (hurriedly) pass through (the teachings of their) religion just as the arrow passes through the prey. I conceive that he (the Holy Prophet) also said this: If I find them I would certainly kill them as were killed the (people of) Thamud"

and other such filth..

Nothing mind-boggling about it..It's all in the politics..

[savage_carrot]

Peace Pazuzu,

The process of Hadith innovations began sometime during the Ummayad Period. The corrupt Sultans of the so- called "Islamic Empire" would employ clerics and other cannonical personel to serve as "consultants".  It was easy for these sultans to require their clerics to innovate a hadith, and create for it a fictionnal chain of  "trusted and honest " narrators . It was in this way that the ycreated all those hadiths which contain laws that are not found in the Quran. They called these "Sunna of the Prophet", when , in truth, it was the Sunna of the Sultans themselves, enforced by the clerics who served them. This is much in the same way that these Sultans  used to employ poets in their "balat" to write poems to glorify them.

I agree, I read this in an article way back and it does make sense. That's one way to control the dissenting masses and turn things in one's favour.

There is nothing mind-boggling about it. There must have been some truly honest souls ,even back  in those dark ages , who realized that the religion was being corrupted by these Hadiths, and who called for a return to the Quran. ( Don't think the Quran-alone movement is new..It's NOT ) . This small group of free-thinkers of course posed a danger to the Sultan's interests, so it was easy to imagine any one of these Sultans asking a cleric of his to innovate a hadith such as the one you pointed out. It all fits perfectly.

The idea that they planted in the minds of the masses, throughout these long centuries of darkness, was: "You people are too stupid to understand the Quran on your own. The Quran is a cryptic book full of hidden meanings, and it is only through us - your mullahs - that you can understand it "

So Carrot, you see, gradually, the people bgann to be afraid of trying to understand the Quran on their own, becasue the mullahs would always brandish hadiths in their faces such as:

" He who tries to interpret the Quran according to his opinion, will burn in Hell for all eternity ".
Or.
"There would arise a people from the progeny of this (man) who would recite the Qur'an glibly, but it would not go beyond their throats; they would (hurriedly) pass through (the teachings of their) religion just as the arrow passes through the prey. I conceive that he (the Holy Prophet) also said this: If I find them I would certainly kill them as were killed the (people of) Thamud"

and other such filth..

Nothing mind-boggling about it..It's all in the politics..

Absolutely. It's majorly about power and politics. By mind boggling I meant the weird creatures, the he said she said, the visions of the future and other various and sundry predictions I'm also pretty sure that the quran alone movement was intact in some form or the other through the ages, as you mentioned. The sad part is that they *are* actually afraid of reading/interpreting the quran AND mullah's these days. We were just talking about the fact that people in pakistan for example, just can't stand up to a mullah on tv while he's ranting and tell him no, you are wrong because of this, this and this so stop polluting the minds of sane people with your garbage. Every single time I watch a talk show with a mullah on there, I want to call in and say stuff that would shut him up or make him burst an artery. I don't mind either conclusion or even if someone else called and I got to see the action