a challenge to quran aloners!!!

[Alen]

peace
It's the fakest personal story I've ever read.
BUT, he makes a very very very good point here:
I had learned in the Quran that our first parents, Adam and Eve, were living in Paradise until they committed sin. (This is the same in the Bible.) But in the Quran I was told they were forgiven of their sins. I asked my Muslim friends, "If they were forgiven of their sin, then why did God being so merciful and gracious make them leave the garden? Does it mean He did not forgive them?"
He's right. The story doesn't add up. UNLESS we realize that the garden is here on earth in this life.

As salamu alaykum wr wb.
Respectfully.

They had to leave the garden, yes, that was the punishment, what's the problem here?
Adam and his wife broke one of the rules, they had to be ejected from the Garden. I see it like this: The two of them were given Time as a form of forgivness and during this Time they will be able to earn back the garden.

We are also given Time and Place in order to earn Heaven.
We have Time, correct? Right.
We have a place, don't we, it's Earth.
Okay, now we are given The Book Of The Rules in order to get back into Paradise.
We are also given chances to make good deeds.

As salamu alaykum wr wb.

[Lobster]

peace Alen,

They had to leave the garden, yes, that was the punishment, what's the problem here?
Adam and his wife broke one of the rules, they had to be ejected from the Garden. I see it like this: The two of them were given Time as a form of forgivness and during this Time they will be able to earn back the garden.

That's not forgiving. That's like if you broke one of your classroom rules, your teacher tells you to get out. Then when you apologize, she says
"OK. I'll give you 5 hours. If you do everything I tell you to do in that time, I'll forgive you and let you in."
What you are saying means that God hasn't forgiven us yet, but we have to earn his forgiveness.
Adam didn't start out on earth (according to what you are saying), he started out in heaven. So if God forgave him, then shouldn't he, and his children (us) be in heaven also? why the hell are we on earth?

So if God hasn't forgiven us yet, that takes us back to the Christian idea of Original Sin. That means you agree with the narrator of the story, and thus you should be a christian.

But, the story changes completely if we realize that maybe paradise isn't in the clouds somewhere, but right here on earth.
Adam was born here, just like us. He reached this higher state of BLISS by following the straigh path, just like we can do. But he couldn't control his desires and ended up leaving that state of bliss.
The original sin is following our desires.

[Fahad]

Salam alaikum.

1. why does the quran says all the previous scriptures has been corrupted ...

The Quran does NOT say that.

[Alen]

peace Alen,That's not forgiving. That's like if you broke one of your classroom rules, your teacher tells you to get out. Then when you apologize, she says
"OK. I'll give you 5 hours. If you do everything I tell you to do in that time, I'll forgive you and let you in."
What you are saying means that God hasn't forgiven us yet, but we have to earn his forgiveness.
Adam didn't start out on earth (according to what you are saying), he started out in heaven. So if God forgave him, then shouldn't he, and his children (us) be in heaven also? why the hell are we on earth?

So if God hasn't forgiven us yet, that takes us back to the Christian idea of Original Sin. That means you agree with the narrator of the story, and thus you should be a christian.

But, the story changes completely if we realize that maybe paradise isn't in the clouds somewhere, but right here on earth.
Adam was born here, just like us. He reached this higher state of BLISS by following the straigh path, just like we can do. But he couldn't control his desires and ended up leaving that state of bliss.
The original sin is following our desires.

As salamu alaykum wr wb.
Respectfully.

Then i am mistaken and i will pray for forgivness.
I'm sorry i was wrongly informed.
Thanks for correcting me.

As salamu alaykum.

[Lobster]

peace Alen,

Not the answer I was expecting.
What convinced you that you were wrong?

[Alen]

peace Alen,
Not the answer I was expecting.
What convinced you that you were wrong?

As salamu alaykum wr wb.
Respectfully.

What answer were you expecting, if i may ask?
I thought that because Adam and his wife made a mistake that they were ejected out of Paradise and were given this Time and Space in order to earn it back, the Garden.

Of course, i will be careful how i use my words in the future, but i always say The God Knows BEST.

As salamu alaykum wr wb.

[Jafar]

salaam,
1. why does the quran says all the previous scriptures has been corrupted while the quran also says jesus , moses and others followed the same message. he makes some other good points which portrays islam as violent and unscientific, like you would have done the same if you were in his shoes... please read for verification...
peace, rifat

There's a huge difference between "Scriptures" and "Message". Although the message is inside the scripture.
Even 'the previouse scripture' itself claim that it has been corrupted and falsified by the lying pen of the scribes.

Jeremia 8:8
How can you say, We are wise, and we have the law of the Lord [Hebrew: Torah YHVH]?
Behold, the truth is, the lying pen of the scribes has made the law a falsehood.

Moses, Jesus etc follow the message.. which is 'true' segment of the Torah.
Because truth and falsehood is mixed inside the scriptures.

Salam / Peace

[Lobster]

peace

I thought that because Adam and his wife made a mistake that they were ejected out of Paradise and were given this Time and Space in order to earn it back, the Garden.

Maybe there was a bit of a misunderstanding.
What you said above is true, EXCEPT I believe Adam always had time and space. He wasn't born into paradise, but he earned it by following the straight path (which we can do as well). But he got ejected because he made a mistake. But since God is all forgiving, allowed Adam to reenter paradise.

The problem arises, I believe, when we take Adam to be born in paradise. Then it means God hasn't forgiven Adam or us. Which gives credence to the christian idea of original sin.

[Shirley]

Peace Guys,



I suggest that M. Saleem, would take the short time to  read "Isa The Bible God's Word" by. Ahmed Deedat. That might change his whole convictions concerning the bible. I see nothing that is being challenged. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Who is Jesus? If a person does not believe, then it will be easy to go in another direction. If that story was even true is something to really look at. It could be something fabricated to get to the ones with weak convictions. That's just my opinion. I use to be Christian. I seen what the people said they received from the holy spirit, talking in tongue, healings, exorcism... all that junk. I always felt weird about that and did not understand why this had to be the method that God chose to show his power. Or why was I not one of those experiencing that "joy and bliss" Now I know better. And if that story was true about what that M.Saleem said then look at what he grew up in maybe that cause him to create his own illusions. Just my opinion.


Peace,


shirley

[Alen]

peace
Maybe there was a bit of a misunderstanding.
What you said above is true, EXCEPT I believe Adam always had time and space. He wasn't born into paradise, but he earned it by following the straight path (which we can do as well). But he got ejected because he made a mistake. But since God is all forgiving, allowed Adam to reenter paradise.
The problem arises, I believe, when we take Adam to be born in paradise. Then it means God hasn't forgiven Adam or us. Which gives credence to the christian idea of original sin.

As salamu alaykum wr wb.
Respectfully.

I never say or believe that Adam was born in the Paradise, i know Adam was not born inside Paradise, he was born and then allowed to live there with his wife, where the mistake was made.

As salamu alakyum wr wb.