Author Topic: Why choose "Qur'an Alone"? (Help from the current Followers)!!!  (Read 2729 times)

mustafa

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In the Name of All?h, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

I am a Muslim by birth and by choice. I am not a person who follows a religion just because "someone" told them, for example close family and relatives like Parents, Grandparents. I am going to use my real name and be truthful to everyone because I am here to gain something, in a proper way. I have been a Sunni by birth. I studied the differences between the Sunni and Shi'a religion and what the other religions have to say about the differences. So far the only decision I have come up with is that I want to be "only" Muslim. That led me to this forum. I have many questions and concerns that I would like to clear up but the main one is about Mr. Rashad Khalifa claiming to be a prophet. I would like for the members to find time to prove to me that I should choose to be a "Submitter", or as be like you all, "a hadith-free muslim".

The Questions:

1. Why should I believe Mr. Rashad Khalifa claims of being a prophet?

My understanding: I will be straight up about this, I don't believe that claim. As a Sunni, we believe in false Prophets (Dajjals). Thinking inside the box, as a Sunni, I will have to put him under that category, if he is doing so using Islam as the religion.

2. According to Mr. Rashad Khalifa's code-19 theory, the following Ayats are not true

9:128 --- Verily, there has come unto you a Messenger (Muhammad SAW) from amongst yourselves (i.e.
whom you know well). It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty. He (Muhammad
SAW) is anxious over you (to be rightly guided, to repent to All?h, and beg Him to pardon and forgive
your sins, in order that you may enter Paradise and be saved from the punishment of the Hell-fire),
for the believers (he SAW is) full of pity, kind, and merciful.

9:129 --- But if they turn away, say (O Muhammad SAW): "All?h is sufficient for me. L? il?ha illa Huwa (none
has the right to be worshipped but He), in Him I put my trust and He is the Lord of the Mighty
Throne."

(con't) Question 2:  So according to you, the Qur'an has to work because of the mathematical sense and not the logical, everyday, common sense?

My Understanding: As far as I can understand, Allah is telling the people the mentioned things in order for the people to understand that the Prophet is nothing more than a Messenger and Allah is explaining his message. I am aware that progressive Muslims believe in the message  I am not a doctor or a PhD. I am surely not a mathematician. The Qur'an was written down as a guideline for people to use in their everyday life. Islam and the Qur'an didn't come with the number 19, but it came with/through a Prophet. Some Sunni people don't realize the limit of respect that should be given, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be respected at all.

3: From what I know, the message is more important to the free-thinkers rather than the messenger. True, I agree 100%, this theory will put me under the category of free-thinkers. If it's okay to follow the teachings and good-deeds of great and successful people (non-Prophets). We obviously do that because, if they were successful by adapting certain things that they did, we might be able to get success in life as well. Considering that, what's wrong with following our Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W)? Is it wrong to follow the Hadith (i.e. sayings of the Prophet S.A.W)? Is it wrong according to the progressive Islam?

My understanding: As a practicing Muslim-Sunni (Follower of the Sunnah), I understand that we do so because we Believe that Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) will go to heaven and he had a great healthy lifestyle. Since he was the last prophet and we have more information about his life than any other Prophet, and he also delivered the Qur'an, we believe that it would be good for ourselves to follow his everyday life. Don't get the idea that we believe he was the best prophet, etc. According to a Hadith, A Sahaba told Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) that he had argued with a Jew about Prophet Moses (Musa) being better than Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) said that don't do that because on the day of Judgement, everyone will faint, and as Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) will gain conciousness, Prophet Moses (Musa) will be sitting by Allah's throne, and Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) won't have the knowledge about who gained conciousness first.

Question 4: I was reading the Q & A in the website 19.org just now!!! (link: http://19.org/index.php?id=15,18,0,0,1,0) and I found out that Edip Yuksel left the organization,  (link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edip_Yuksel) but he is still a Qur'an Alone Muslim.

My question is Why disagree with the Hadith and not agree with Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), disrespect him, disgrace him and follow other people (Mr. Rashad Khalifa) instead?

My understanding: Qur'an Alone muslims basic idea is not to believe Hadith and Follow Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) as a prophet. But then again you choose to have a self-proclaimed "educated" prophet (Mr. Rashad Khalifa) who has very few followers and the Book he has "altered" was really written by an Illiterate person who could never read and write all his life (Prophet Muhammad S.A.W) this miracle that could only be done by Allah. Reading the Q&A (link: http://19.org/index.php?id=15,18,0,0,1,0) just made me realize something. But I give the benefit of doubt because one muslim convert once said that he is so lucky he never met muslims before converting, otherwise he wouldn't have done so. But your basic beliefs are from a Prophet and Book that you are denying. I don't mean to be offensive but since I have placed my self in the category of free-thinkers, I can say this religion is not one of the choices that I would like to choose unless someone on this site proves to me otherwise. This is a new religion and the main founders should be nicer and more accepting, instead of disrespecting other religious beliefs. To tell everyone the truth, I haven't found any truth or any reason to believe this "Qur'an Alone" argument. According to a Hadith, before Qayamah (judgement day) everyone will have their own religous beliefs. Free thinkers contradict their own beliefs. If I keep on asking "why?" one day I will be questioning the law. Law is what you worry about more than questioning the religion itself, because that's in the near future, and the after-life doesn't matter anymore. Another Hadith states that before Qayamah, the Qur'an will be taken away from the Earth and people's hearts. Thanks for contributing to the two signs of the Judgement day. You have given muslims the right to freely change the religion and soon the law will be changed in your own minds because that's what your thinking allows you to do.

My First CONCLUSION: I am a free-thinker, but I don't take it to an excessive level. I realize that I don't choose what's best for me, Allah does. I allow the government to choose my rights and law, and I worry about the cops catching me for speeding, instead of opposing them, I accept my mistake and agree to pay (if needed). I don't take a copy of the constitutional rights and distribute it all over to get supporters and prove my point, which was never there. If I do so, I just changed it for my needs, so I can simply go and freely drive my car as fast as I want. But then after an accident, I will realize my mistake. Changing two Ayats and being an unbeliever of the Hadith is absolutely done for a pointless reason. Why can't I tell you why? because I can't judge someone's action, I am not God. Yes, I am a free-thinker but I know my limits, and "Qur'an Alone" is not the way for me.

Shi'a and Sunni religions make up for the 95% of the muslim population, and there numbers are growing world wide, Mash'allah.

My Final Question: WHY?

My Understanding: Ethics, Respect and the real Qur'an and Prophets are still present as a part of the basic foundation of the religion. There are no contradictions in the religion itself. One thing that needs to be clear about this is the fact that I am talking about the scripture and the real religion instead of the actions and behaviour of the followers. The conflict remains on the Khalifahs and some other minor subjects, that I will study and try to come up with a conclusion.

However MY FINAL CONCLUSION for this religion: There is probably a 0.5% chance for me to accept this religion, now. I am a Free-thinking, Sunni(follower of the sunnah) and a Shi'a (follower) Muslim. I have taken out some teachings followed by the sub-religions because they do not follow the Qur'an. As Far as Qur'an Alone is concerned, I am Sorry, but I cannot agree with the teachings given by Mr. Rashad Kalifah. He realized himself that he will need people to promote his new "product" so he became a self-proclaimed prophet. Contradiction is not found in Islam, this is not Islam. You cannot buy a product that you have no knowledge of, without it's instructions, so he became a prophet. He is right, I agree, therefore "Qur'an Alone" is a flop and not Islam because Qur'an Alone, isn't even Qur'an "Alone", it's coming with other false-prophets and mathematical teachings. This religion falls under the Wahabi and Free-Thinkers category, the people who don't believe in God at all.

Choose to be complete non-muslim free-thinkers for your beliefs to make sense

As an average free-thinking, muslim,  I have crossed "Qur'an Alone" out as a choice for my religion, only in a couple of hours. It was great, and a nice experience, I learned a couple of good things that I would like to share as I depart from this site. I will be visiting frequently for the replies.

1. While being greatly successful and educated, one should not think of him/herself as a superior person, compared to others because one day that person might choose to be better than Prophets, Holy Books, and a really excessive limit would be being beter than God.

2. After learning about your religion, my appreciation about Prophet Muhammed (S.A.W) has been greatly increased. His Hadith have helped me to be a great person, with a nice, humble personality, with little or no negative thoughts or emotion.

3. As a free-thinker, you have a right to say whatever you want, whenever you want. You can absolutely trash the other person and his/her religion without a problem. There is no respect what-so-ever. It's mostly complaining, pointing fingers, disgracing, disrespecting others and being a complete ego-maniac. I have had friends from other non-accepted, so-called muslim religions. They backbite, and think of themselves as better people, and think it's okay. They have a bad thing to say about everyone except those who they are close with. If things don't go their way, they choose to trash the other person and their religion, but when it comes to their own religion or themselves (mostly retaliation against them), they are sensitive and they cannot handle it. They think and act like they are better than someone, and try to prove it. They are supposed to be innocent and the complaining victims after all of their behaviour. I am being Stereotypical? you really think so, try it. I can assure you that your free-thinker approach that I am using (stating an opinion and my understanding), will simply get replies of pure garbage instead of the educated and logical approach that this religion has advertised.

Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) said that the words he preaches aren't his own words, but are actually words sent to him by Allah.

The angels were delivering messages from Allah to the Messenger. The Hadith and Sunnah weren't pointless, Allah Knows Best!

If you really love your approach, just choose to be complete non-muslim free-thinkers for your beliefs to make sense!

Salaam!

Alen

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Re: Why choose "Qur'an Alone"? (Help from the current Followers)!!!
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2006, 07:00:38 AM »
As salamu alaykum wr wb.
Respectfully.

Welcome to the forum, Mustafa.
I hope we can stay in touch and on this forum, you will see and read why we follow Qur'an alone, why we reject the hadith and sunna, WITHOUT arguing or callin names.

May The Almighty Allah The most Powerful protect us all and rewards us all with Heaven.
As salamu alaykum wr wb.
39:53 Say: ?O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of God\'s mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.?

andy

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Re: Why choose "Qur'an Alone"? (Help from the current Followers)!!!
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2006, 07:12:58 AM »
Salaam brother Mustafa,

From you post, IMHO, you are not fully aware of what is going on here.

Quote from: mustafa
1. Why should I believe Mr. Rashad Khalifa claims of being a prophet?
Did he claim to be a prophet? As far as I know he did not claim it. Please CMIIW.

Quote
2. According to Mr. Rashad Khalifa's code-19 theory, the following Ayats are not true
I believe 9:128-129 are the revelations of Allah.

The enemies of the prophet have tried to tamper with quran. They fabricate LIES and attributed them to the prophet.

Shahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 511:

    Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:

    Abu Bakr sent for me and said, "You used to write the Divine Revelations for Allah's Apostle : So you should search for (the Qur'an and collect) it." I started searching for the Qur'an till I found the last two Verses of Surat At-Tauba with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari and I could not find these Verses with anybody other than him. (They were):

    'Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty ...' (9.128-129)


However, those enemies of the prophet failed.

Quote
3: From what I know, the message is more important to the free-thinkers rather than the messenger. True, I agree 100%, this theory will put me under the category of free-thinkers. If it's okay to follow the teachings and good-deeds of great and successful people (non-Prophets). We obviously do that because, if they were successful by adapting certain things that they did, we might be able to get success in life as well. Considering that, what's wrong with following our Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W)? Is it wrong to follow the Hadith (i.e. sayings of the Prophet S.A.W)? Is it wrong according to the progressive Islam?
Brother Mustafa, the thing you must always bear in mind when talking about hadiths is they are not the sayings of the prophet. They are the saying of people three centuries after the prophet regarding the prophet which were collected by hadith compilers.

Shahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 63, Number 195:

    Narrated Jabir:

    A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to the Prophet while he was in the mosque and said, "I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face to the other side. The man turned towards the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and gave four witnesses against himself. On that the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" (He added), "Are you married?" The man said, 'Yes." On that the Prophet ordered him to be stoned to the death in the Musalla (a praying place). When the stones hit him with their sharp edges and he fled, but he was caught at Al-Harra and then killed


Did the prophet order stoning? What is wrong with following "the saying of the prophet"?

Quote
Question 4: I was reading the Q & A in the website 19.org just now!!! (link: http://19.org/index.php?id=15,18,0,0,1,0) and I found out that Edip Yuksel left the organization,  (link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edip_Yuksel) but he is still a Qur'an Alone Muslim.

My question is Why disagree with the Hadith and not agree with Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), disrespect him, disgrace him and follow other people (Mr. Rashad Khalifa) instead?
Please read more bro. As I said, IMHO you are not fully aware what is really going on here. As a starting point, maybe you can start with code 19 section. Please also read the debate between Edip Yuksel and Ayman to get the general idea of what is going on.

Quote
Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) said that the words he preaches aren't his own words, but are actually words sent to him by Allah.
I was also taught that way until I read "what the prophet preached":

Shahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234:

    Narrated Abu Qilaba:

    Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle ."


I believe Allah does NOT teach us through His prophet to brand eyes with heated pieces of iron. Do you believe Allah DOES?


Please don't take my post as offense. I hope we can learn together here insha Allah.


Wassalam,

Wakas

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Re: Why choose "Qur'an Alone"? (Help from the current Followers)!!!
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2006, 07:23:56 AM »
Mustafa,

Its no wonder you rejected "Quran alone" after only a "few hours" and think it doesn't make sense. You came to hasty conclusions with your views based on extremely poor research, outright falsities and assumptions. Your information is lacking in some simple observations/facts:

1) Hardly anyone here believes Rashad Khalifa was a divine prophet. In fact, I only know of maybe one or two.

2) Hardly anyone here believes in code-19, or thinks there are false verses in 'al quran'.

3) Rashad Khalifa was not the 1st person to come up with "Quran Alone" and reject hadith. I strongly recommend you do some actual research. Read about "al kalam" for example, or read this link.

4) No-one here disrespects the messenger who delivered 'al quran'. One could only argue they disrespect the alledged sayings of Muhammad. There is a BIG difference. If you cannot appreciate that simple distinction, that is your problem. Do you also take the Gospels of Jesus as Jesus's sayings?

5) Majority means nothing [12:106, 6:116], as stated explicitly by 'al quran'. Do you accept what God says or not? There are more Christians than Muslims, does that make their religion more right than Sunnis/Shias?

Quote
Contradiction is not found in Islam

I'm very glad you said this. Continue your studies and keep your above statement in mind.

Lastly, please do some thorough reseach AND take your time. Do not rush into conclusions otherwise you'll end up missing some basic points, such as the ones I listed.


Wakas


All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

mquran

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Re: Why choose "Qur'an Alone"? (Help from the current Followers)!!!
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2006, 08:14:52 AM »
Salaamun alaikum Mustafa,

Quote
I am a Muslim by birth and by choice. I am not a person who follows a religion just because "someone" told them, for example close family and relatives like Parents, Grandparents. I am going to use my real name and be truthful to everyone because I am here to gain something, in a proper way. I have been a Sunni by birth. I studied the differences between the Sunni and Shi'a religion and what the other religions have to say about the differences. So far the only decision I have come up with is that I want to be "only" Muslim. That led me to this forum. I have many questions and concerns that I would like to clear up but the main one is about Mr. Rashad Khalifa claiming to be a prophet. I would like for the members to find time to prove to me that I should choose to be a "Submitter", or as be like you all, "a hadith-free muslim".


I don't follow Mr Rashad Khalifa, I follow only Al-Quraan (AQ) as my source of absolute information. A 'hadith-free muslim' is a redundant term. A muslim's criteria has nothing to do with sources of information.


Quote
1. Why should I believe Mr. Rashad Khalifa claims of being a prophet?

You shouldn't. I don't.

Quote
2:  So according to you, the Qur'an has to work because of the mathematical sense and not the logical, everyday, common sense?


AQ works because its a constant mapping of the signs on the horizon and in yourself (41/53). The 'mathematical sense' has no sense to me.

Quote
3: From what I know, the message is more important to the free-thinkers rather than the messenger. True, I agree 100%, this theory will put me under the category of free-thinkers. If it's okay to follow the teachings and good-deeds of great and successful people (non-Prophets). We obviously do that because, if they were successful by adapting certain things that they did, we might be able to get success in life as well. Considering that, what's wrong with following our Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W)? Is it wrong to follow the Hadith (i.e. sayings of the Prophet S.A.W)? Is it wrong according to the progressive Islam?



Good point. So judge what you read according to merit. Let AQ provide your permanent, unchanging source of information and whatever else you read provide your temporal source.


Quote
My Final Question: WHY?

I've asked myself that before. After all, leaving a socio-historical grouping like the muslims can be momentous. But leaving them, I have rejoined humanity AND allowed AQ to operate how its meant to operate. Reading AQ on its own terms is like diving into an ocean of knowledge, pardon my platitude. I ask you sir to give AQ a chance to speak for itself without Rashad before you decide.


M_Mehdi

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Re: Why choose "Qur'an Alone"? (Help from the current Followers)!!!
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2006, 09:22:05 AM »
I want to be "only" Muslim.

salam,

By will of Allah, then just be Muslim brother. Sunni, Shia, Quran alone, etc. are terms that have little value. Please never associate me (and I pray yourself) with any sects. No worries, I also do not believe Mr. Rashad Khalifa claims of being a prophet.

peace.

mustafa

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Re: Why choose "Qur'an Alone"? (Help from the current Followers)!!!
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2006, 08:41:34 PM »
Thanx A lot for your civilized replies, instead of condemning me, you are trying to help me, and I appreciate it. You guys are right that little knowledge can be dangerous, but I am mostly interested in the Fundamentals of your religion.

I am aware of all the hadith's narrations that are done by people like Abu Haraira, who travelled over most of Arabia, and the accounts are from the people that knew Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and witnessed it with their own eyes.

I agree that the Sunni/Shi'a religion's main conflict is because of the Caliphs, which has nothing to do with the religion. *Islam was complete during Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) time, he was the last prophet*. The Caliphs were the administration and the Sahaba.

I understand that religion is just a belief. And all of the people that are here are just the people who always asked "why?" and sometimes just answered to ourselves, don't ask too many questions about your religion. But we all wanted to know, Why should we choose Islam?

Maybe because we were different than the average muslim, we did so. Therefore, I decided that there's a chance for me to choose this Qur'an Alone approach!

BUT... it worries me to find out that they have removed two of the Ayat from the Qur'an, which cannot be done since *Islam was complete during Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) time, he was the last prophet*. To tamper with the Holy Qur'an basically means you are claiming to be a prophet.

There are three types of Hadith mentioned in Sahih Al-Bukhari and another book. I classify them as instructions, sayings, and historical events.

Now the Few Confusions that I am left with because of the replies are:

1. Andy, I want to clear up a couple of things. As far as I know, "Qur'an Alone" doesn't accept and believe in the Hadith or the Sunnah. What does that mean? your action to remove the two ayat, in your version of the Holy Book, should not even take place since you don't believe in the Hadith. That point is clear, 100%, no argument there. You can tell me other factors, like Mr. Rashad Khalifa or whoever chose to do it because of code-19. Like you guys said, and according to my understanding, he isn't a prophet so he can't change the Holy Qur'an. Therefore, that point still needs to be clear. Hadith two: I still believe that according to Islamic Law, the punishment for adultry is to be stoned to death.

My questions to you are 1)who is the authority of your Islamic Law? 2)does everyone interpret it their own way or 3)actually follow from Imams? 4) or do you pick and choose between the Imam's teachings? 5) or you don't worry too much about certain things and leave some laws alone because you are unsure?

Andy, Sorry man, but you have failed to prove to me why I should use Qur'an Alone as my choice. HOWEVER, the other two hadith that you have posted have proved another point, meaning that ALL Hadith should not be followed. Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) used to do Tawaaf around the Kaaba in slippers sometimes because the Kaafirs would throw sharp objects on the floor. If you follow that now, it's won't make any sense.

Well all that leads to a conclusion that I have always wanted, but now I will be happy in choosing it. But I will state that after clearing up some other stuff.

Confusion 2: Wakas, In the points 1,2 & 3, we are on the same page. However in point 3, you are correct, mostly all of the muslims have rejected MANY hadith, and not only Rashad Khalifa chose Qur'an Alone.

Sorry but the link you sent me wasn't something I would have any interest in. Daniel Brown is a great Islamic scholar and teacher, which is great, but the problem is that he isn't muslim. If he studied so much about Islam and he hasn't chosen that as his religion, there, a problem arises. So I would like to stick to the Hadith and the Qur'an instead of adding books written by a Christian, Islamic Scholar to the discussion.

4) You are right but at http://www.19.org has competitions for Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W)'s cartoons, astagfirullah. I cannot look at it as anything but disrespect. But www.19.org doesn't concern you, since you don't believe in code-19, but since you are speaking on the behalf of others...Therefore, I come to this belief,  "Contradiction is not found in Islam".

You are contradicting the beliefs of your fellow progressive muslims, and like what I said for Andy, the contradiction is taking place in your basic beliefs, like the stuff I said about Mr. Rashad Khalifa and false prophethood claims.The stuff that the Hadith states, which contradicts with the Holy Qur'an; I don't accept the Hadith or believe them in that case. You helped me to reach to the same conclusion Andy did. Thanks A LOT!

5) This is where we are not on the same page, I didn't say majority is correct etc. I meant to say that you are making your own religion complicated by adding the code-19 to it, and the people will have to witness it by themselves instead of believing you. But that doesn't concern you, therefore you are not a "Qur'an Alone" muslim, you are just a plain and simple muslim, like you are supposed to be, that has chosen to study from a different translation. Your beliefs are similar to mine, however your beliefs are not similar to the Qur'an Alone foundation or your fellow progressive muslims, and you are speaking on their behalf, meaning that you are creating your own religion in some way.

3. Mquran, your post was also a great help, thanks a lot. I quote what you have written: " After all, leaving a socio-historical grouping like the muslims can be momentous. But leaving them, I have rejoined humanity AND ..." After the "AND" there is a problem.

And M-mehdi, thanks for the support, you are absolutely correct and I choose to do that.

MY CONCLUSION: Qur'an Alone is the truth, but "Qur'an Alone" as a religion isn't. You all seem to be like me, disagreeing with the Sunni and Shi'a beliefs of having sects in Islam, you wanted to leave, just like me, but instead you have ended up in a wrong place. Removing the Ayat and all is a problem itself. Leaving a Sect, you have joined another sect for no reason at all. Contradicting your beliefs, and that doesn't take place in Islam. If you want to leave the groups, don't join another, be an independent muslim. If you are independent, and you choose to have a Prophet as your leader, why let others decide for you, once again, you haven't gained anything, but actually lost your old sect and now you have lost your belief. There are Hadith that are categorized as the ones that can be recognized with the Holy Qur'an. The other two types are the ones that are actual Historical Events and the other ones cannot be recognized with history or the Qur'an.

Therefore I choose to be a muslim that will read the Real Holy Qur'an and if I cannot understand something, I will read an authentic Tafseer, even though the Tafseer are just the historical significance of the Ayat, it would be good for me to find out why, just for extra knowledge, even though there is no need.

Two Main Fundamentals you all need to have is to be polite and harmless to others by any means AND to pray 5 times a day. If those fundamentals are present, there won't be a problem on Qayamah. The sunnah that I will follow will be for my own good, not for the blessings. There are two ways of doing things, a proper way and an improper way. Some hadith just tell us the proper way, it's up to the person to decide which one is good for you, therefore you cannot cancel out all the hadith because you cannot accept a couple. It's just for you to decide which one you will choose in your lifestyle which one you won't, but the same cannot be done for the Qur'an.

Thanks for everything my brothers. I will stick to the original Muslim beliefs and I will consider the Caliph just as the historical administrators and sahaba of Islam. Nothing more, nothing less! They just contributed towards the Muslims, not to the faith itself. The Hadith is our choice but the Qur'an isn't. Qur'an Alone can never be possible, that's why a Prophet was sent along with it, that's why you guys had a code-19 theory to go along with the reason for it to take place.   

Please post your replies and opinions!

Salaam


TheNabi

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Re: Why choose "Qur'an Alone"? (Help from the current Followers)!!!
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2006, 09:48:50 PM »
Peace

#1- I think you're making a mistake to categorize 'Quran Alone' as being the same as 'Christianity', 'Hinduism' or 'Santana Dharma', 'Sunni', etc. I do not believe it is a title at all. If you ask me if I followed a religion and to name it, I would not say 'Quran Alone'. This statement, 'Quran Alone', is basically a short summary for the type of following I adhere to. I choose to look to the quran alone for the guidance God gives. It is a primary source to which other sources come in as secondary so long as they do not contradict this primary one.

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Why should I believe Mr. Rashad Khalifa claims of being a prophet?

Free-Minds.org is not Submission.org. Take a look at the 2 sites. This site does not promote the idea that Rashad is a messenger of God.

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The Hadith and Sunnah weren't pointless, Allah Knows Best!

They may not necessarily be pointless at all. The words [hadeeth/sunnah] are never used in the quran to refer to the hadeeth and sunnah in the context of the religion of the Sunni's.

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If you really love your approach, just choose to be complete non-muslim free-thinkers for your beliefs to make sense!

You see, you drop off your message with a subtle and insulting remark. Take care with how you write lest your motives be found out too soon beforehand.

Joe
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek for verification & knowledge. ~> [3/190-191; 17/

mquran

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Re: Why choose "Qur'an Alone"? (Help from the current Followers)!!!
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2006, 12:46:16 AM »
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Thanx A lot for your civilized replies, instead of condemning me, you are trying to help me, and I appreciate it. You guys are right that little knowledge can be dangerous, but I am mostly interested in the Fundamentals of your religion.

Well you're not going to find AQ going 'chapter 1 : fundamentals of your religion'. AQ must be taken holistically. There are a few ayat which implies fundamentals of ad-deen:

1. 107/1-3 : People who belie ad-deen are those who turn away the orphans and refuse to feed the poor.

2. 2/62 : Those who believe in Allah and the last day, on them shall be no fear nor grief.


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I am aware of all the hadith's narrations that are done by people like Abu Haraira, who travelled over most of Arabia, and the accounts are from the people that knew Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and witnessed it with their own eyes.

That's the claim yes, but is it Quranically verifiable. 9/101 tells us that The Prophet never knew who the hypocrites were.


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I understand that religion is just a belief. And all of the people that are here are just the people who always asked "why?" and sometimes just answered to ourselves, don't ask too many questions about your religion. But we all wanted to know, Why should we choose Islam?


You're a brave person for asking. I salute you for it. As for those who do not ask, Allah will ask them (17/36).


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Maybe because we were different than the average muslim, we did so. Therefore, I decided that there's a chance for me to choose this Qur'an Alone approach!

Sir, there's no such thing as 'the average muslim'. You're either a muslim (by serving God's laws) or you're not.



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3. Mquran, your post was also a great help, thanks a lot. I quote what you have written: " After all, leaving a socio-historical grouping like the muslims can be momentous. But leaving them, I have rejoined humanity AND ..." After the "AND" there is a problem.


After the 'and', I wrote 'allowed AQ to operate how its meant to operate. Reading AQ on its own terms is like diving into an ocean of knowledge, pardon my platitude. I ask you sir to give AQ a chance to speak for itself without Rashad before you decide.

Mustafa, you seem to be a sincere fellow about ad-deen, so why would you have a problem with this? AQ is the most underemphasised source in the 'Islamic' faith, having being turned into a songbook. The few brave Muslim scholars who have dared to explore AQ on its own (like Maududi, Islahi, Muhammad Al-Ghazali) have been severly shackled due to sunnah constraints when imposing meaning on words.

My suggestion : Go to www.the-quran.org . See the lecture on 'What AQ says about Allah and Aaliha'. You will then see how immediate AQ is to our lives.


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MY CONCLUSION: Qur'an Alone is the truth, but "Qur'an Alone" as a religion isn't. You all seem to be like me, disagreeing with the Sunni and Shi'a beliefs of having sects in Islam, you wanted to leave, just like me, but instead you have ended up in a wrong place. Removing the Ayat and all is a problem itself.

2 things:

1. I'm not a 19er and have never been one.

2. I didn't leave because I was fed up of sectarianism. I never had a problem with that because I believe that the Islam I followed was complete. What compelled me to leave was the collapsibility of 'Islam' when challenged by the mechanism of internal contradiction and the fact that AQ proposes a whole other religion than what Muslims practise.


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Leaving a Sect, you have joined another sect for no reason at all.


Once again, wrong. I am now part of humanity with only one qualification. Bad Guys aren't welcome.

I no longer say 'ah , salaam brother' to every guy named Mohamed or girl named Fatima. I say 'salaam' to EVERYONE unless he's blatantly attacking me.

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Contradicting your beliefs, and that doesn't take place in Islam. If you want to leave the groups, don't join another, be an independent muslim. If you are independent, and you choose to have a Prophet as your leader, why let others decide for you, once again, you haven't gained anything, but actually lost your old sect and now you have lost your belief. There are Hadith that are categorized as the ones that can be recognized with the Holy Qur'an. The other two types are the ones that are actual Historical Events and the other ones cannot be recognized with history or the Qur'an.


There comes a point when hadith, sects and recognition is no longer an issue. What's important is : Am I A Good Guy ? Do I Strive HARD against At-Taghoot. These are things which will save you from hell.

andy

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Re: Why choose "Qur'an Alone"? (Help from the current Followers)!!!
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2006, 01:26:20 AM »
Salaam mustafa,
Thanx A lot for your civilized replies, instead of condemning me, you are trying to help me, and I appreciate it. You guys are right that little knowledge can be dangerous, but I am mostly interested in the Fundamentals of your religion.

I am aware of all the hadith's narrations that are done by people like Abu Haraira, who travelled over most of Arabia, and the accounts are from the people that knew Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and witnessed it with their own eyes.
Shahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 3, Number 121:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    I have memorized two kinds of knowledge from Allah's Apostle . I have propagated one of them to you and if I propagated the second, then my pharynx (throat) would be cut (i.e. killed).


Abu Huraira is reported to conceal the truth. What do you think mustafa?

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There are three types of Hadith mentioned in Sahih Al-Bukhari and another book. I classify them as instructions, sayings, and historical events.
I think your classification has not covered all types. Below is an example of hadith which does not fit your classification (hint: read the content!):

Shahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3371:

    Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

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Now the Few Confusions that I am left with because of the replies are:

1. Andy, I want to clear up a couple of things. As far as I know, "Qur'an Alone" doesn't accept and believe in the Hadith or the Sunnah. What does that mean?

To be more precise, I would say: unlike sunni and shia, "quran alone" does not accept the DIVINITY of hadith books.

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your action to remove the two ayat, in your version of the Holy Book, should not even take place since you don't believe in the Hadith. That point is clear, 100%, no argument there.

This one is not for me to response since I don't remove any verse in quran.

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You can tell me other factors, like Mr. Rashad Khalifa or whoever chose to do it because of code-19. Like you guys said, and according to my understanding, he isn't a prophet so he can't change the Holy Qur'an. Therefore, that point still needs to be clear. Hadith two: I still believe that according to Islamic Law, the punishment for adultry is to be stoned to death.
Actually, this stoning is similar with REMOVAL attempt of quranic verses. Only this time it is ADDITION attempt to quranic verses.

Shahih Malik Muwatta Book 41, Number 41.1.8:

    Malik related to me from Ibn Shihab from Ubaydullah ibn Abdullah ibn Utba ibn Masud that Abdullah ibn Abbas said, "I heard Umar ibn al-Khattab say, 'Stoning is in the Book of Allah for those who commit adultery, men or women when they are muhsan and when there is clear proof of pregnancy or a confession.' "


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My questions to you are 1)who is the authority of your Islamic Law? 2)does everyone interpret it their own way or 3)actually follow from Imams? 4) or do you pick and choose between the Imam's teachings? 5) or you don't worry too much about certain things and leave some laws alone because you are unsure?
1 => The authority is Allah (6:114)
2 => Allah is the Teacher of quran and the students are not necessarily on the same level of understanding (75:16-19)
3 & 4 => Depends on the verification (17:36)
5 => Leaving laws never authorized by Allah is commanded, otherwise we are setting up partners with Him (42:21)

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Andy, Sorry man, but you have failed to prove to me why I should use Qur'an Alone as my choice.

Mustafa, as I said, I am here to learn together and not to guide anyone. It is Allah alone who can guide and He guides whom He wills.

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HOWEVER, the other two hadith that you have posted have proved another point, meaning that ALL Hadith should not be followed. Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) used to do Tawaaf around the Kaaba in slippers sometimes because the Kaafirs would throw sharp objects on the floor. If you follow that now, it's won't make any sense.
That is a good point bro.

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Well all that leads to a conclusion that I have always wanted, but now I will be happy in choosing it. But I will state that after clearing up some other stuff.
If you are sincerely seeking the truth, then you should not set the conclusion first and then do the research. It should be the other way around bro.

2:159 Surely those who conceal what We have sent down to them which was clear, and the guidance, after God Had made it clear in the Scripture; these will be cursed by God and be cursed by those who curse.