Is Islam an Organized Religion or a System of God?

[Arnold Yasin]

Peace,

Danish, here is a small article on the differences between religion and the Quranic system:

http://mahjoorquran.blogspot.com/2006/11/quranic-system-compared-to-religion-or.html

[Tay]

Peace Danish,

Without data, there?s no potential and the more the data/information (knowledge), the more the potential (intelligence).

This is where you're wrong. Potential and ability to fulfil that potential are not the same, Danish. More data does not mean more potential. 500mb of storage does not change if you have more or less data than 500mb. The potential stays the same no matter what.

This is getting nowhere and becoming absurd.

Agreed.

Earlier uou mentioned ?as per Quran? and now you are mentioning ?as per dictionaries? and that too with a pick-n-choose verbiage.

Context. "System" is a word you used in the title of this thread. You did not get "system" from the qur'an. Further, you said a religion cannot be a system. Since we're using English words, I provided the English definitions.

Certainly not, since I?m not the one making superstitious wishful claims and twisting and bending words/verses of an ancient alleged Allah?s book fallen out of thin air to fit today?s agenda by hook or by crook.

Please provide the evidence that I made a single superstitious claim, else, stand corrected.

Certainly not, because I take historical information, other sources, current views and world views as legitimate accounts that are extremely important to understand Quran and not just pick, choose and fit dictionary or personal meanings as whatever pleases you to budget your wishful latest agendas just because that meaning fits, and viola.

I see. Historical information = hadith? Other sources = no other sources? Current views = someone's opinion? World views = media? Interesting how not included in your criterion is the arabic language itself, nor your own understanding of the text. Like I said, subjective. And you accuse me of being selective?

I?m not sure what you are trying to achieve here, but my responses are addressed directly to your replies and none other.

I'm trying to achieve dialogue, between Tay and Danish, without the constant interference of your mind's compelling desire to bring the entire muslim world into the mix. You've known me long enough to know that I don't buy what the majority is selling. It's truly disappointing to see this regression coming from you.

What I am truly concerned with as of this very moment, is that, you and five other moderators, may take my criticisms to Martian levels of profanity and disband me from further participation by unjust means without a trial.

My appointment has not changed my persona. Have I ever treated you this way before?

Can you guarantee my save haven on this forum, if I were to stay within justified means of ?free speech??

The rules are the rules, bro. You know what they are and you know the limits. It's not my place to guarantee anything. I'm just a helper.

If I am not supposed to bring about criticisms and discussions against religious belief systems on this section of forum, then please let me in advance and I shall refrain from doing so without getting ?slaughtered? out of forum.

Criticism and discussion is fine, and you know that. What I'm talking about is our discussion right here and now. I presented my view, answering your question at the title of this thread, and you didn't address it. What you did was tell me it's irrelevant and that it's wishful thinking. Not very cool. If that's the way you're going to handle your threads, then let me know and I'll refrain from wasting my time.

In ending, you of all people should know that views and understandings change with time. We remain open-minded and we discuss and share thoughts and keep things respectful, and all is well. There will always be disagreement. But no one on this forum holds a monopoly on the truth. As long as you come at me with that attitude, we're better off not discussing at all.

Peace,
Tay

[Danish]

Tay, JFYI, you don't need to address by 'Peace' on each and every replies and I really don't mind as I understand its a continuous converstation, but then again, I shall leave that up to you. I rather prefer being realistic.

This is where you're wrong. Potential and ability to fulfil that potential are not the same, Danish. More data does not mean more potential. 500mb of storage does not change if you have more or less data than 500mb. The potential stays the same no matter what.

Agreed.

Tay, the more the data, the more or better the potential. Your analogy of 500mb becomes restrictive and moot, simply because if I had 550mb of data, your storage cannot hold and would thus require more storage (potential) to store that xtra data and hence retain all information. Why are so bent with desperation to misunderstand a simple fact and bring about silly analogies, beats me? 

Context. "System" is a word you used in the title of this thread. You did not get "system" from the qur'an. Further, you said a religion cannot be a system. Since we're using English words, I provided the English definitions.

Okay fine, and I gave you an answer either way. Further, it was you who contended towards Islam being neither a system nor a religion, and I acknowledged it.

Please provide the evidence that I made a single superstitious claim, else, stand corrected.

O com'on Tay, don't be such a naive pain in the butt. Not only yours but this entire forum is full of such claims and you know exactly what I've been talking about. You are acting like a child now.

I see. Historical information = hadith? Other sources = no other sources? Current views = someone's opinion? World views = media? Interesting how not included in your criterion is the arabic language itself, nor your own understanding of the text. Like I said, subjective. And you accuse me of being selective?

I'm sorry, but I call your above two quoted replies as "bull-crap" or victimization. This happens too often when religious fanciful and wishful adherents start losing grounds.

I'm trying to achieve dialogue, between Tay and Danish, without the constant interference of your mind's compelling desire to bring the entire muslim world into the mix. You've known me long enough to know that I don't buy what the majority is selling. It's truly disappointing to see this regression coming from you.

This regression and arrogance of yours will come out of its hibernation when majority becomes Quranists. Let me know how would you handle the minority's view then? The majority line of reasoning, is the one of most vicious and crooked argument Islamists has invented. If the majority is right, you will cheerlead, but when they are wrong you will spit out the magical verse. How convenient!!!

My appointment has not changed my persona. Have I ever treated you this way before?

The rules are the rules, bro. You know what they are and you know the limits. It's not my place to guarantee anything. I'm just a helper.

All I know that your rules as per Quran are not my rules and certainly not the rules of 6+ billion people living succesfully and meaningfully today. But ofcourse, as per your persona, the majority are wrong and they simply can't help in living their purposeful natural ways without the Quran. O well, tough luck to all "miserable" ones, they will abide in hell either way and I am sure I shall be treated well in hell, like Abraham did.

Criticism and discussion is fine, and you know that. What I'm talking about is our discussion right here and now. I presented my view, answering your question at the title of this thread, and you didn't address it. What you did was tell me it's irrelevant and that it's wishful thinking. Not very cool. If that's the way you're going to handle your threads, then let me know and I'll refrain from wasting my time.

Tay, what are bungling about now. I really don't seem to understand you. One minute you start talking about intelligence only and the next on personal issues and then on titles of thread. It is you who is hip-hopping from side to side and blaming me for it. Is this your newly moderated rule of way in expounding to expunge me. Check who I gave my first response to on this thread AFTER taxing me for a month and then you barged in to respond. Revert, read and reflect, and come to your senses please.

In ending, you of all people should know that views and understandings change with time. We remain open-minded and we discuss and share thoughts and keep things respectful, and all is well. There will always be disagreement. But no one on this forum holds a monopoly on the truth. As long as you come at me with that attitude, we're better off not discussing at all.

I just hope there's no political vandalism by "defeat" to cause an unecessary effect on "attitude" by superiority complex. That's all.

[Tay]

Peace Danish,

O com'on Tay, don't be such a naive pain in the butt. Not only yours but this entire forum is full of such claims and you know exactly what I've been talking about. You are acting like a child now.

Just one superstitious example would have been good. I really don't know what you're talking about. Superstition is something I shy away from.

I'm sorry, but I call your above two quoted replies as "bull-crap" or victimization. This happens too often when religious fanciful and wishful adherents start losing grounds.

Religious fanciful??? I guess you don't know me at all. I guess all the dialogue you and have had in the past was lost on deaf ears.

If the majority is right, you will cheerlead, but when they are wrong you will spit out the magical verse. How convenient!!!

Thanks for reading my mind and telling the future in the process, and then judging me based on these phenomena.

All I know that your rules as per Quran are not my rules...

Forum rules, bro. Not mine. Not rules as per Quran.

I really don't seem to understand you.

Ditto.

One minute you start talking about intelligence only and the next on personal issues and then on titles of thread.

As each point is made, it's addressed. This is the way we converse.

It is you who is hip-hopping from side to side and blaming me for it.

I don't know about any hip-hopping or blame. My beef is pretty simple, and I've stated it more than once now. You asked a question in your thread title. I answered to the best of my ability. You did not respond to my view, you swept it under the rug as wishful thinking. It's in black and white for all to see. I'm not evading, I'm not hip-hopping, I'm not blaming, I'm not thinking wishfully. If you're still confused, then so be it.

Is this your newly moderated rule of way in expounding to expunge me.

There's no agenda here bro. It's me...Tay. I'm talking to you about our discussion.

Check who I gave my first response to on this thread AFTER taxing me for a month and then you barged in to respond.

I didn't realize it was a private thread. I apologize.

I just hope there's no political vandalism by "defeat" to cause an unecessary effect on "attitude" by superiority complex. That's all.

If I treated you that way in the past, then I would understand your apprehension. As it stands, I do not. I've always respected you and your beliefs. I've never talked to you the way you've talked to me in this thread. If there's one thing you can take from these most recent exchanges, let it be that I harbor no ill will. I maintain my respect for you and your beliefs. I am, however, disappointed that we've come to this point.

May peace be upon you,
Tay

[Danish]

Just one superstitious example would have been good. I really don't know what you're talking about. Superstition is something I shy away from.

How about a deity named ALLAH and HIS words called Quran??? Do you personally know anything about this Allah to begin with?

Religious fanciful??? I guess you don't know me at all. I guess all the dialogue you and have had in the past was lost on deaf ears.

I guess so, pretty sad.

Thanks for reading my mind and telling the future in the process, and then judging me based on these phenomena.

Kyle taught me the secrets of mental phenomenon.

Forum rules, bro. Not mine. Not rules as per Quran.

I guess forum are current and superior, but not the Quran, which is fine with me.

Ditto.

Fair enough.

As each point is made, it's addressed. This is the way we converse.

Must change forum rules then pertaining to off-tangent addressing. Nevermind, things change around pretty fast here to catch up to. But then, must be my sluggish mind.

I don't know about any hip-hopping or blame. My beef is pretty simple, and I've stated it more than once now. You asked a question in your thread title. I answered to the best of my ability. You did not respond to my view, you swept it under the rug as wishful thinking. It's in black and white for all to see. I'm not evading, I'm not hip-hopping, I'm not blaming, I'm not thinking wishfully. If you're still confused, then so be it.

You didn't answer to thread title but to a specific post on my come-back. Nevertheless, almost every thread on this entire forum strays off one way or the other. I guess I'm on the Watchful Squadron Eagle Eye's top list to spite upon while the beautiful singing Robins and Finches are petted?

There's no agenda here bro. It's me...Tay. I'm talking to you about our discussion.

Okay  Tay, understood. My bad.

I didn't realize it was a private thread. I apologize.

You simply didn't catch my words, how silly of me. I wish I knew there were private threads.

If I treated you that way in the past, then I would understand your apprehension. As it stands, I do not. I've always respected you and your beliefs. I've never talked to you the way you've talked to me in this thread. If there's one thing you can take from these most recent exchanges, let it be that I harbor no ill will. I maintain my respect for you and your beliefs. I am, however, disappointed that we've come to this point.

Trust me, I had the same feelings and would rather not become emotional and disspirited but brush it off to begin anew.

Perhaps we shall meet again in good spirits.

[Tay]

Peace