Author Topic: Shehrun - months ?where they months?No, don't think so.  (Read 2632 times)

simple

  • Guest
Shehrun - months ?where they months?No, don't think so.
« on: July 18, 2006, 07:26:12 PM »
Salaams All,

Are these the months or what not?


9:5
Then if they withdraw from the forbidden interaction/s then fight and kill the pagans wherever you find them????
2:216
Fighting is prescribed for you , and you dislike it ???..
 2:216
They ask you about the forbidden interaction  fighting with/in it, say  fighting with/in it a great/grave  and preventing from way of Allah and disbelieving (in)Him and the submissions the forbidden and bringing forth from it  (is) greater with Allah???
   9:36
Verily the number of interactions (between people) with Allah are twelve interaction in the Book of Allah ????.of them four are forbidden???..
     The four Forbidden:
2:173
Verily He has forbidden upon you The Death and bloodshed and to revile/vilify with pride and  to do opposite to Allah or in accordance with other then Allah ???

5:3

Verily He has forbidden upon you The Death and bloodshed and to revile/vilify with pride and  to do opposite to Allah or in accordance with other then Allah ? strangling, beating,  repulsing/ repelling,  corruption and that (you) devour by obscenety or lewdness, except that/ what is legal to you and what lawful/ clean / pure by labour/ toil and that you seek knowledge of your fate by divining arrows that is sin this day have given up all hope those who disbelieved of your religion so do not you fear them but fear Me????.

The eight not forbidden,but encouraged:



9:112
Those who repent/ return from sin or disobedience, who imbibe and reflect-on Gods attributes, who commend/ praise/ speak well of/ eulogize, who devote themselves for/to others, who are humble, who submit/ Accept, who command/ enjoin to do good and forbid  evil and who observe the limits set by God  and give glad tidings to the believers.
 

Remembering Bloodshed=shahr from 5:3 above
Mensuration ? Bloodshed.

And these two ayah?s follow on from 2:222 which is telling you to avoid the mensuration periods.


5.
[2:226]
Lillatheena yu/loona min nisa-ihimtarabbusu arbaAAati ashhurin fa-in faoo fa-inna Allahaghafoorun raheemun    للذين يؤلون من نسائهم تربص اربعة اشهر فان فاؤوا فان الله غفور رحيم

    For those who take an oath for abstention from their wives, a waiting for four bloods/periods is ordained; if then they return, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
6.
[2:234]
Waallatheena yutawaffawnaminkum wayatharoona azwajan yatarabbasnabi-anfusihinna arbaAAata ashhurin waAAashran fa-ithabalaghna ajalahunna fala junaha AAalaykum feemafaAAalna fee anfusihinna bialmaAAroofi waAllahubima taAAmaloona khabeerun    والذين يتوفون منكم ويذرون ازواجا يتربصن بانفسهن اربعة اشهر وعشرا فاذا بلغن اجلهن فلا جناح عليكم فيما فعلن في انفسهن بالمعروف والله بما تعملون خبير

    If any of you die and leave widows behind, they shall wait concerning themselves four bloods/periods and ten days: When they have fulfilled their term, there is no blame on you if they dispose of themselves in a just and reasonable manner. And Allah is well acquainted with what ye do.


Please see: also,

http://www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6836.0


God be with you.

enquirer

  • Guest
Re: Shehrun - months ?where they months?No, don't think so.
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2006, 08:21:54 AM »
Peace simple. Here are some ideas from my previous research...
Shahr=something clear and very apparent/obvious.
The four forbidden clear/obvious things/interactions= 1)death 2) bloodshed 3) causing harm to the body/flesh. 4) anything causing harm in reality.(eg mental abuse,etc.)

The remaining 8 clear obvious things (from the listed 12 shahr.) are positive recommended interactions; 1) serve reality/god 2) be just to parents 3) be just to those close/qurba/children/ partners
4) be just to orphans/yateem. 5) be just to the poor/masakeen. 6) be just in speech to mankind in general.
7) establish regular salat/a connection,link or meditation with reality/god. 8) give/come to zakat/purification of the soul/character by self development/actualisation/humane practical morality...

This understanding of 8 clear/obvious positive interactions/behaviours is derived from 2:83 and from other verses such as 6:152/153 and many other similiar and related verses...

 :peace: :muscle: :handshake: Hope this helps your research...

simple

  • Guest
Re: Shehrun - months ?where they months?No, don't think so.
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2006, 09:42:56 AM »
Peace simple. Here are some ideas from my previous research...
Shahr=something clear and very apparent/obvious.
The four forbidden clear/obvious things/interactions= 1)death 2) bloodshed 3) causing harm to the body/flesh. 4) anything causing harm in reality.(eg mental abuse,etc.)

The remaining 8 clear obvious things (from the listed 12 shahr.) are positive recommended interactions; 1) serve reality/god 2) be just to parents 3) be just to those close/qurba/children/ partners
4) be just to orphans/yateem. 5) be just to the poor/masakeen. 6) be just in speech to mankind in general.
7) establish regular salat/a connection,link or meditation with reality/god. 8) give/come to zakat/purification of the soul/character by self development/actualisation/humane practical morality...

This understanding of 8 clear/obvious positive interactions/behaviours is derived from 2:83 and from other verses such as 6:152/153 and many other similiar and related verses...

 :peace: :muscle: :handshake: Hope this helps your research...


I am quite surprised how you deduced the four forbidden .


I think the only thing which is making the differance between our 12 shahr is that while my list of 5:3 and 9:112 is being aplied to mankind in general  yours doesn't , and secondly i haven't made my list it was there in the two places.

whilst yours is by selection and applies partly to the individual only and the general people are tertiary.

I believe rather then creating/making using ones imagination we should be looking at what Allah is saying in the mistranslated quran.

I was doing what you did ,till ayman pointed that out.



Thanks.

God Bless.

enquirer

  • Guest
Re: Shehrun - months ?where they months?No, don't think so.
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2006, 09:55:51 AM »
Peace simple. In reality the 'talking to mankind' can be construed into a general category representing all mankind,and the others are categories of mankind which most will fall into anyway...
Also my list is from the quranic verse i listed,in the exact order the verse relates,so i havent made them by collecting them up from seperate positions ...
I feel bad for you,in that you are taking aymans very dubious advice,as he spends half his research on questionable lingustic opinions,internal/subjective references,and trying/forcing the quran to be consistent with itself....Hardly a worthwhile or scientific method....
Anyway,hope you get joy in your research while employing an open-mind.... :peace: :muscle: :handshake:


simple

  • Guest
Re: Shehrun - months ?where they months?No, don't think so.
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2006, 10:09:27 AM »
Quote
I feel bad for you,in that you are taking aymans very dubious advice,as he spends half his research on questionable lingustic opinions,internal/subjective references,and trying/forcing the quran to be consistent with itself....Hardly a worthwhile or scientific method....

come on -some of of his work/research is outstanding , i think so anyways and plus he knows the arabic lingo quite well.

Plus i think we all have our flaws - we can't be God.

God Bless all.


enquirer

  • Guest
Re: Shehrun - months ?where they months?No, don't think so.
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2006, 10:18:09 AM »
Peace simple. Im not impressed by the big posts with lots of linguistic references bro....I felt your posts carried much more realism and potential...Aymans posts on jinn and salat had some good points,but i feel the linguists on this site are just chasing their own tails....
 :peace: :muscle: :handshake:
ps; knowledge of arabic is not the big thing that people think it is,or can we agree with abs,layths and progods differing and mutually contradictory views,as they all have 'good' arabic?

simple

  • Guest
Re: Shehrun - months ?where they months?No, don't think so.
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2006, 07:21:06 AM »
Salaams enquirer,

Quote
Aymans posts on jinn and salat had some good points,but i feel the linguists on this site are just chasing their own tails....
   
ps; knowledge of arabic is not the big thing that people think it is,or can we agree with abs,layths and progods differing and mutually contradictory views,as they all have 'good' arabic?

how depressing - but still it doesn't matter.

God Bless all.

simple

  • Guest
Re: Shehrun - months ?where they months?No, don't think so.
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2006, 05:53:23 AM »
Salaams ,

just updated - for a better understanding.

12-shahr:

9:112
To return from sin or disobedience.
To imbibe and reflect on Gods attributes.
To speak well of.
To devote oneself for others.
To be humble  - not proud or not believing that you are important:
To accept Godly authorities.
To enjoin good and forbid evil.
To observe the limits set by God.

5:3
To forbid causing death.
To forbid the bloodshed.
To forbid vilification with pride.
To forbid doing opposite to Allah or according to other then Allah ? Strangling, beating, repelling, corruption and that you devour by obscenity or lewdness except what is legal to you and what lawful by labour and the seeking of knowledge of fate through divination.

God Bless.

simple

  • Guest
Re: Shehrun - months ?where they months?No, don't think so.
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2006, 09:41:36 AM »
Just updated:

All ayah's in which Shahr accurs - i think.


009.001
A declaration from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances: -
009.002
  Stay devoted in disposition to carrying out the four shahoor/ interactions and know that you not escape (from the punishment of) Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
 009.003
And a declaration from Allah and His Messenger, to the people on the day of the Greater challenge- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye mustn?t frustrate Allah And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
009.004
(But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfill your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
009.005
But if they withdraw from the forbidden interactions  then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish counsel and are forthcoming then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.




194.
[2:194]   Alshshahru alharamu bialshshahrialharami waalhurumatu qisasunfamani iAAtada AAalaykum faiAAtadoo AAalayhibimithli ma iAAtada AAalaykum waittaqoo AllahawaiAAlamoo anna Allaha maAAa almuttaqeena    الشهر الحرام بالشهر الحرام والحرمات قصاص فمن اعتدي عليكم فاعتدوا عليه بمثل ما اعتدي عليكم واتقوا الله واعلموا ان الله مع المتقين

    The prohibited interaction for the prohibited interaction,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.

178.
[2:178]   Ya ayyuha allatheena amanookutiba AAalaykumu alqisasu fee alqatla alhurrubialhurri waalAAabdu bialAAabdi waalonthabialontha faman AAufiya lahu min akheehi shay-on faittibaAAunbialmaAAroofi waadaon ilayhi bi-ihsaninthalika takhfeefun min rabbikum warahmatun famaniiAAtada baAAda thalika falahu AAathabunaleemun    يأيها الذين امنوا كتب عليكم القصاص في القتلي الحر بالحر والعبد بالعبد والانثي بالانثي فمن عفي له من اخيه شئ فاتباع بالمعروف واداء اليه باحسان ذلك تخفيف من ربكم ورحمة فمن اعتدي بعد ذلك فله عذاب اليم

    O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.






9:5
Then if they withdraw from the forbidden interaction/s then fight and kill the pagans wherever you find them????
2:216
War is prescribed for you , and you dislike it ???..
 2:216
They ask you about the forbidden interaction/ killing in war, say war is a great/grave thing and preventing from way of Allah and disbelieving (in) Him and the submissions the forbidden and bringing forth from it (is) greater with Allah???
   9:36
Verily the number of interactions (between people) with Allah are - twelve interaction in the Book of Allah ????.of them four are forbidden???..
     
The four Forbidden:
2:173
Verily He has forbidden upon you The Death and bloodshed and to revile/vilify with pride and  to do opposite to Allah or in accordance with other then Allah ???

5:3

Verily He has forbidden upon you The Death and bloodshed and to revile/vilify with pride and  to do opposite to Allah or in accordance with other then Allah ? strangling, beating,  repulsing/ repelling,  corruption and that (you) devour by obscenity or lewdness, except that/ what is legal to you and what lawful/ clean / pure by labour/ toil and that you seek knowledge of your fate by divining arrows that is sin this day have given up all hope those who disbelieved of your religion so do not you fear them but fear Me????.


The eight not forbidden, but encouraged:

9:112
To repent/ return from sin or disobedience, To imbibe and reflect-on Gods attributes, To praise/ speak well of/ eulogize (others), To devote ones-self for/to others, To be humble, To be submitting/ Accepting, To enjoin good and forbid  evil and To observe the limits set by God  ????..
 

Remembering Bloodshed=shahr from 5:3 above
Menstruation ? Bloodshed.

And these two ayahs? follow on from 2:222 which is telling you to avoid the menstruation periods.

[2:226]    for those who take an oath for abstention from their wives, a waiting for four bloods/periods is ordained; if then they return, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

[2:234]
 if any of you die and leave widows behind, they shall wait concerning themselves four bloods/periods and ten days: When they have fulfilled their term, there is no blame on you if they dispose of themselves in a just and reasonable manner. And Allah is well acquainted with what ye doa.

So what are the two shahr in the following?


004.092
YUSUFALI: Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to Allah: for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom.

Wilful killing is forbidden, but being an accident the two shahrs envisaged are to free a debtor and to pay compensation. But if you can?t do these then be so sad so you don?t have words to speak and may be to eat neither a few days for each shahr running consecutively.


And RAMADHAN:

Page 1156-lanes

Ta-Daakhalanee Min Hadha Alamri-RAMADZUN
Distress and disquietude, or grief, crept into me from, or in consequence of, this thing.

A-RAMDZ-ho Alamro
The thing or affair pained him.

A-RAMDZ-ho
burned him/distressed him/pained him.

Page 1612-lanes

Shehrun = He made it apparent/manifest/notorious/public.
                Or (it generally means) He made it apparent as bad, evil, abominable, foul, or unseemly, he exposed it as such.

Interaction causing pain was revealed in it the quran a guidance for mankind and clear proofs of the guidance and the criterion so whosoever testifies amongst you (to) such a shahr/ an interaction/ Shahr he should fast it and whosoever is sick or on journey (the same) number of days other wants Allah for you ease and not want for you hardship so that you complete the number and that you should magnify Allah on that he guided you so that you may give thanks.

SO THE QURAN WAS REVEALED IN PERIODS OF DISTRESS.


God Bless.