Author Topic: GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!  (Read 8035 times)

AhmedBahgat

  • Guest
Re: GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2006, 05:08:59 AM »
Salaam Ahmed
Quote
Mate Izdahar has nothiinthing to do with flowering, it actually means "Blossomed",
Do you really mean that or there is a typo?

Salam Samia

There was a typo for sure however yes I mean Izdahara means blosom, Azhar means to flower, we can say the economy izdaharit but we can't say the economy  azharit

That is why we have 5 letters root "Masddar" that will be the origin of some words

i.e. the masddar for the noun "Izdihaar" is the past tense 5 letters root "Izdahara"

same with Igtamaa

Quote
for Ikhtasha,...........another example is Igtamaa

Quote
Do you notice a pattern in these three verbs (the third being izdahara)?

yeh sure, it is called wazn and all 5 letters root musddars are on the same wazn

Quote
I think you mix between pattern and root.

no i'm not, it can't be while I was taught arabic since I was a baby, any arabic word even root has pattern "wazn"

Quote
Verbs (and words ingeneral) derived from the same root have different patterns and do not mean exactly the same meaning, but their meaning is related to the meaning of the root. E.g:

never heard of that really, but I know this is just an easy entry to the non arabic speakers  who want to learn Arabic, the Arabic language is far deeper than this flawed root method that you guys make every word as a three letters root and from that you drive the meaning, total non sense if you ask me

Quote
jama3a: to collect; ijtama3a : to meet; tajamma3a: to gather, jamme3: all; tajammu3: gathering; jam3iyya: group-organization; mujtama3: society; jum3a: gathering. Root for all the above words (and maybe more): ja ma 3a, giving the meaning of plural, or more than one.

So?, the above does not change the fact that the noun Igtimaa "Meeting" is driven from the the 5 root past tense masddar "Igtamaa"


Salam

progod

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1751
Re: GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2006, 01:27:45 PM »
Ahmed,

Your argument about the difference between flower and blossom is pointless. Sometimes you can't translate things literally and litterally izdahara means 'it flowered' but it makes better sense to say 'it blossomed' in English.

You are confusing form and root. wazn is form and jadhr is root. izdahara is of the root zahara and is of the form ifta&ala. You may have learned Classical Arabic since a baby but you are mistaken about this Classical Arabic concept and it seems you have confused root and form. The forms are related by not the same. Samia, started explaining that to you and it is best if I let her explanations suffice here. She has also been speaking Arabic since she was a baby.

Samia,

Take the sentences that I gave you as examples to help it fit grammatically, and take in mind that modern langauge sometimes finds archaic langauge difficult, as well as phrases that have never been heard before by the listener or reader.

take the sentences

huwa jayyid isti&daadan

now go to

huwa fee &aamin isti&daadan fa nahnu sa-najma&u kulla &itaadinaa lidifaa&i

Think of it as poetic language. Even though the Quran says it is not poetry understand that poetry in the old sense has nothing to do with rhyme or rythm but whether or not it was for entertainment.

Godbless,
Anwar
The Quranists Must Rise!

http://www.quranists.com

AhmedBahgat

  • Guest
Re: GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2006, 01:58:10 PM »
Bro Anwar

sorry bro, I have no time to watse on this subject anymore, as I stated I will photocopy the page about the Masddars from the grammar book I have and post it in here and you will see in there that there are 6 letters Masddars as well

Salam

progod

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1751
Re: GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2006, 03:05:43 PM »
God bless,

I'm done too. I've told you what it really is and you don't want to listen to me. So, go ask some well-known Arabic profressor if you don't want to believe me.

God bless again,
Anwar
The Quranists Must Rise!

http://www.quranists.com

AhmedBahgat

  • Guest
Re: GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2006, 08:08:51 PM »
Cheers bro

let's discuss something else man, I will still post the imgages form the book, I just need to scan it first

I will also post who are the authors and their background

cheers

Samia

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4697
  • Gender: Female
Re: GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2006, 12:38:59 AM »
Salaam all

Bro Anwar

 you will see in there that there are 6 letters Masddars as well

Salam

Of course there are, and even 7 letters ones!
You were mixing between verb pattern and root, now you are mixing between maSdar (verbal noun) and root. These are 3 distinctive things.

Progod:

I asked you, not for more examples, but to please apply your examples to the verse, i.e. write the verse as you understand it (by substitution) and then expalin it, so that I unserstand fully what you mean and my response can be based on that, with my thanks.


AhmedBahgat

  • Guest
Re: GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2006, 01:30:41 AM »
Salaam all

Bro Anwar

 you will see in there that there are 6 letters Masddars as well

Salam

Of course there are, and even 7 letters ones!
You were mixing between verb pattern and root, now you are mixing between maSdar (verbal noun) and root. These are 3 distinctive things.




Salam Samia

please Samia, your english definition have no meaning to me, I only taught the Masaddar, all the other tings you named in english never heard of it unless you provide the equivelent name in arabic

also there was never 7 letters massdar in that book

Salam

Samia

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4697
  • Gender: Female
Re: GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2006, 02:00:29 AM »
Quote
Salam Samia

please Samia, your english definition have no meaning to me, I only taught the Masaddar, all the other tings you named in english never heard of it unless you provide the equivelent name in arabic

also there was never 7 letters massdar in that book

Salam

Salaam Ahmed

I think we already know root (jidhr) and pattern (wazn) as mentioned in one of Progod's posts. Now I put the English equivalent of maSdar (verbal noun) between brackets, not for you, but for those who are not native speakers and are learning Arabic in English. You may ignore the English translation of the technical terms.

The second part of your question: What about: istiqlaal استقلال  (independence) and all maSdars of this wazn (pattern)? If your book says there are no 7 letters maSdars, I would not trust it if I were you.

AhmedBahgat

  • Guest
Re: GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2006, 03:07:37 AM »

Quote
Salam Samia

please Samia, your english definition have no meaning to me, I only taught the Masaddar, all the other tings you named in english never heard of it unless you provide the equivelent name in arabic

also there was never 7 letters massdar in that book

Salam

Quote from: Samia
Salaam Ahmed

Salam Samia

Quote from: Samia
I think we already know root (jidhr) and pattern (wazn) as mentioned in one of Progod's posts.

Excuse me sister, the Gazr and Wazn has nothing to do with the origin of the word, the Gazr is never taught at schiils and have no meaning in Native Arabic speakers countries, we only taught the Wazn and the Masddar

now do you lnow what Masddar means in Arabic?

it mean "the origin" i.e. the origin of the owrd, for example

Igtimaa has a Masddar of of 5 letters that is Igtmaa

and the Masddar "The origin or the word" is the one that is used to figure the meaning and that is what we are taught at Arabic schools

for me this Gazr thingy is a flawed invention that only cause confusion and makes all the words the same bloody meaning if they have the same 2 letters Gaze for example someone like simple thinks the following

ghanam which is sort of the Lamb means Aghnaam which are the things collected in a war after victory

why he thought thatand totally manipuklated the Quran?, because he used the flawed and un merited Gazr "root" thingy and sure he has to get confused because the two words have the same three letters Gazr "Gh N M"

I have zillions of examples

so your insistance and many like you to use this Gazr method to figure the words meanings only show your ignorance with the arabic language

Quote from: Samia
The second part of your question: What about: istiqlaal استقلال  (independence) and all maSdars of this wazn (pattern)? If your book says there are no 7 letters maSdars, I would not trust it if I were you.

Istiqlaal has a 5 letters Masddar with a shadda on the Lam,  virtually 6 letters Masddar and it is "Istqll"


Salam


AhmedBahgat

  • Guest
Re: GROUNDBREAKING QURANIC FINDING!!!
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2006, 03:16:27 AM »
Sister samia

I checked the book and sorry to tell you that the Masddars are only 3 to 6 letters, wait till I scan that page and post it in here then you can respond to it and show us where the two senior Arabic language professors got it wrong

I'm sorry I don't have a scanner handy as typing it will defeat the authenticity purpose that I'm not faking it, as well I don't have time to type it really

one page will explain every thing to you regarding the Masddars and how they work

the professors put in a tree like shape and you follow it through the branches

now I know where the confusion is coming from

i thought those root advocates mean  that it is the Masddar all alonge up to this moment

I was only talking about the Masddars thinking that this is what you mean by the roots, because the Masddar is the origin of the word in Arabic NOT the root

Salam