22:67 - help with exact translation please

[Elke]

Peace all,

yesterday night i was thinking about the salat issue, and as so often, when i opened one of my corans randomely, this verse popped up (22:67 translated by andr? chouraqui) :

Pour toute matrie, nous instituons des rites,
mais ils les ritualisent.
Qu?ils n?en contestent pas les ordres:
implore ton Rabb !
Certes, te voici en guidance ascendante.

The translation in English would be : For each community we give procedures, but they ritualize them...

It is the "but" that hit me . In this translation it sounds like a reproach, but when i looked in my other corans, i didn't meet this understanding. They were more like youssouf alis translation :

"To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow: let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord: for thou art assuredly on the Right Way. "

I then looked up the arabic and found rather the sens of the ali translation as well. Those who have a better grasp of arabic, please help !

Thanks in advance.
Elke

[Samia]

Salaam Elke

The Arabic version:

لكل أمة جعلنا منسكاً هم ناسكوه، فلا يُنازعُنك في الأمر وادع إلى ربك إنك لعلى هدى مستقيم

[AhmedBahgat]

Peace all,

yesterday night i was thinking about the salat issue, and as so often, when i opened one of my corans randomely, this verse popped up (22:67 translated by andr? chouraqui) :

Pour toute matrie, nous instituons des rites,
mais ils les ritualisent.
Qu’ils n’en contestent pas les ordres:
implore ton Rabb !
Certes, te voici en guidance ascendante.

The translation in English would be : For each community we give procedures, but they ritualize them...

It is the "but" that hit me . In this translation it sounds like a reproach, but when i looked in my other corans, i didn't meet this understanding. They were more like youssouf alis translation :

"To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow: let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord: for thou art assuredly on the Right Way. "

I then looked up the arabic and found rather the sens of the ali translation as well. Those who have a better grasp of arabic, please help !

Thanks in advance.
Elke

Peace sister

the word BUT, does not exist in the arabic verse neither physically of virtually "Ommitted"

Therefore Y A translation sounds good to me

Thanks

[Elke]

Thanks ahmed, samia !

[/*JM*/]

Thanks ahmed, samia !

The translation of Chouraqi is a very bad one.

Since you are fluent in english, I humbly suggest you to use the english translations like the ones available here :
http://islamawakened.org/Quran/default.htm

Peace

[Samia]

Sorry! I have just realized that the whole reply did not show. Here is my full reply:

Salaam Elke

The Arabic version:


لكل أمة جعلنا منسكاً هم ناسكوه، فلا يُنازعُنك في الأمر وادع إلى ربك إنك لعلى هدى مستقيم

There are two words which I think were not well translated:

جعل:indicates a change from an already known form, in English we use the verb "make". So Allah "made" these mansak a decree for those people.

ناسكوه:nasek here is a name of a doer, not a noun (like the difference between saying this is a writer and this is the writer of this article). Those people creadted those rituals and Allah made them their rituals, in other words, Allah accepted what they chose for themselves.

So when Allah sends His commands/rituals مناسك to Mohammad, those people should not contest these matters, because these are from Allah.

For example: they used to marry their sisters, and Allah did not stop them and it became their way, so when Allah prohibits this, they should not contest and say: Allah did not forbid us before.

[Elke]

Peace samia

sorry i dont really grasp what you mean :

Quoting in parts but exactely the parts that trouble me when put together :

...So Allah "made" these mansak a decree for those people...
...in other words, Allah accepted what they chose for themselves...
...those people should not contest these matters, because these are from Allah...

Could you elaborate a little please ?

Thanks, lk

[Samia]

Salaam Elke

...So Allah "made" these mansak a decree for those people...
...in other words, Allah accepted what they chose for themselves...

so far so good

those people should not contest these matters, because these are from Allah...

Not these matters, but the new message revealed to Mohammad. I understand that those manasek were before the revalation; so when the revelation was descended from  Allah, it cancelled the previous manasek, and so those people should not dispute with this matter with the Prophet.

I hope I made myself clearer.

[AhmedBahgat]

Thanks ahmed, samia !

Peace sister

I believe the verse means the following:

-> It is a fact "the fact is, "To every People have Allah appointed rites and ceremonies which they follow", i.e. the people before mohammad had different rites and ceremonies, this actually indicates that some other people argued with Mohammad regading the changes of rites and ceremonies in his message, this understanding is confirmed, with what will follow next:"let them not then dispute with thee on the matter", therefore it seems Mohammad faced some strong disputes regarding the rites and ceremonies he was inviting them to and Allah is supporting him with a fact that each generation had their own rites and ceremonies that was appointed to them through other messengers exactly as it happened with his people, the support of Allah to Mohammad "possibly against some strong disputes", was even clearer with the ending of the verse, as well commanding him to continue to invite them to Allah:"but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord: for thou art assuredly on the Right Way. "


Salam

[Elke]

Peace ,

thanks to Samia and ahmed for the explanations, as well as JM for the great link.

Things got clear again - actually they were before and this translation knocked me off...

You know JM, i like the chouraqi translation a lot - but as i don't read it alone - always along with two or three other translations - i know it's not always accurate - but still beautiful.

lk