Salat Article (NEW)

[Elke]

Peace damon 

Another reason I disagree with that understanding is because GOD Does Not make it a point to emphasize becoming clean in other verses of the quran as he does in 5:6 and 4:43 in prepparation for salat.

May be this is the case because salat also is the ongoing bond that we should respect at all times of our life - and not only a 'salat' times - which would IMO lead to a general incitation of staying clean - physically and morally.

You can see here that i share the view of arnold and soul2squeeze of multiple meaning / layers of understanding.

Bye bro,
lk

[Tay]

Peace Damon,

In reviewing your understanding, here's how I see it. Let me know what you think...

1) If we had sexual intercourse with our spouses. <---bathe

2). If we had defecated in the bathroom. <---wash hands, face, and feet

3) If we are ill. <---wash hands, face, and feet

4) If we have been traveling. <---wash hands, face, and feet

5) If we just awoke. <---wash hands, face, and feet

I believe there is a 6th condition, seperate from "intercourse with our spouses": the literal has it as "or you touched and felt repeatedly the women". I presume this is in reference to contact with our spouses, but not actual intercourse. Most translators have it as "sexual contact". In this case, washing of the hands, face, and feet is prescribed, and not a bath as is the case for intercourse.

Peace,
Tay

[Samia]

Salaam all

In this case, washing of the hands, face, and feet is prescribed, and not a bath as is the case for intercourse.

In fact both verses 4:43 and 5:6 speak about tayammum, when you do not find water. So the rule stays: to get ready for salat,and in case water is available, bathe after intercourse, wash face, hands/arms and feet.

[Layth]

Peace all,

The wording `three Salat times` was an error from a previous article and has been corrected.

The first thing I want to point out is your belief in the facing of the temple at Baka as the Qiblah. I would like to know how you made that connection as per Quran. I have read the verses that you have used in your article to support this view, but there aren't any verses that I know of which connect Baka to Qiblah. If there are such verses that I am not aware of, please let me kow of them. If there are no such verses, I would like to know how you came to this particular conclusion.

I based that finding on two points, the first is the example of Moses and his people on their escape from Egypt being told to `face their homes & perform the Salat` Please note that Moses and his people are running away from where they lived, hence this can only be a physical turning to face that direction in the Salat (the logic behind it being obvious, that Moses is being chased by Pharoah comming from the city they just left, hence to have licence to face the direction Pharoah would be comming from during Salat would take away the element of surprise).

The second point is the clear command to `face the Qibla of the Restricted Temple`. The verses on this matter speak of it being a clear physical action as observed when the people were inquiring `what made them change their Qibla?`. God`s system has never changes, hence those that argue that the `Qibla` is a system that the Muslims were following and then changed it does not tally with this foundation. However, when we link the Qibla with the Salat as we can in the case of Moses in 10:87, then the entire issue becomes clear that it is a physical turning to face God`s restricted temple.

My second concern is salaatul jum'a.

You translated 62:9 as:

O you who believe, when the oath of allegiance is called to at time of public gathering[/b], then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God, and cease all selling. This is better for you, if you only knew.

You left out the definate article AL which is written in the original Arabic text...

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha noodiya lilssalati min yawmi ALjumuAAati faisAAaw ila thikri Allahi watharoo albayAAa thalikum khayrun lakum in kuntum taAAlamoona

Therefor, the correct translation should be:

O you who believe, when the oath of allegiance is called to at THE time of public gathering[/b], then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God, and cease all selling. This is better for you, if you only knew.

You are absolutely correct. The `the` was dropped accidentally when I was reviewing the verses. It has been corrected.

In Arabic, we all know that the definate article al speaks of something specific as opposed to something general. It is more on the lines of a one of a kind type scenario. As much work and effort will have to be put into it, we have to research and determine what this specific day is and I am certain that the answer is in the Quran.

You have come to the conclusion that this can be any day of public gathering which I think the Arabic of the quran makes that assessment incorrect.

I have not been able to see a `special day` in the sence that you are referring to. The main indicator on this verse is the word `min` which makes it all and any days where a gathering of people takes place. Had the wording been `fi`, then the case could be made that there is one special day that the Salat is to be held in.

I believe the 5th thing is spoken of in the beginning of this verse:

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo ITHA QUMTUM[/b] ila alssalati faighsiloo wujoohakum waaydiyakum ila almarafiqi waimsahoo biruoosikum waarjulakum ila alkaAAbayni wa-in kuntum junuban faittahharoo wa-in kuntum marda aw AAala safarin aw jaa ahadun minkum mina algha-iti aw lamastumu alnnisaa falam tajidoo maan fatayammamoo saAAeedan tayyiban faimsahoo biwujoohikum waaydeekum minhu ma yureedu Allahu liyajAAala AAalaykum min harajin walakin yureedu liyutahhirakum waliyutimma niAAmatahu AAalaykum laAAallakum tashkuroona

O you who believe, IF YOU RISE[/b] to perform the oath of allegiance, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to make any hardship over you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative.

I take this to mean ITHA/IF we rise from a state of sleep or napping and I base it on 52:48-49:

48. Waisbir lihukmi rabbika fa-innaka bi-aAAyunina wasabbih bihamdi rabbika HEENA TAQOOMU

49. Wamina allayli fasabbihhu[/b] wa-idbara alnnujoomi

Paying attention to the wording at the end of verse 48 and the beginning of verse 49 appears to clarify this.

You shall be patient for the judgement of your Lord, for you are in Our sights; and glorify the praise of your Lord WHEN YOU RISE.

Also from the night glorify Him[/b] and after the appearance of the stars.

The term wa-min (and from) in the beginning of verse 49 is used to contrast the term heena taqoomu at the end of verse 48.

Thus, it is clear to me that if I am not ill, have not been traveling, did not just get done making stool in the bathroom, I have not had sexual contact with my spouse and I did not just aqamu/rise from sleep, then I can go ahead and observe the salat without the need to wash my face, hands, elbows, head and feet.

I have read another view (similar to your own) which was that the wudu/ablution was to be done for each Salat as per the command in 5:6 (`when you rise`). On the subject of waking from sleep, the Scripture mainly uses `tusbihoon` - rather than `qumt` (see 30:17).

My own view is that napping/sleep does not negate the wudu for the Salat. The evidence I point to is the 2nd part of verse 5:6 which tells us that allowance to make `tayamum` (cleaning with clean soil in the absence of water) is given in the cases of: travel, illness, sexual contact, and stool. Had being asleep also required wudu, then it would have been given in the list of ietms that require wudu in the absence of water.  

[Samia]

Salaam all

What is "The Restricted Temple"?
Did المسجد الحرام exist then?

In other words, what should we face when performing salaat?

[Layth]

Peace,

What is "The Restricted Temple"?
Did المسجد الحرام exist then?

In other words, what should we face when performing salaat?

The restricted temple (masjid alharam) has been around since at least the days of our father Abraham who raised its foundations with Ismail. It is my understanding that this symbol of God is to be faced at the time of each Salat.

[Damon]

Peace Elke,

Peace damon 

Another reason I disagree with that understanding is because GOD Does Not make it a point to emphasize becoming clean in other verses of the quran as he does in 5:6 and 4:43 in prepparation for salat.

May be this is the case because salat also is the ongoing bond that we should respect at all times of our life - and not only a 'salat' times - which would IMO lead to a general incitation of staying clean - physically and morally.

You can see here that i share the view of arnold and soul2squeeze of multiple meaning / layers of understanding.

Bye bro,
lk

There are certain verses in the quran that make it very clear that we are to set aside the time to observe the salat, such as 62:9-10, 24:58 and 4:101-103.

4:101 and 4:103 are very clear that it is something that we take the time to observe intentionally at some point in our day. If it were not, 4:101 would not speak on us shortening the salat and 4:103 would not describe the salat as a timed writ/decree for the BELIEVERS. Speaking of which...

4:103 says the salat is a timed decree for the BELIEVERS. Both, 4:43 and 5:6 start off by addressing the BELIEVERS.

Also, 5:6 says ITHA qumtum. Itha meaning IF. It says IF you rise for the salat. It does not say HEENA or WHEN we rise for the salat. If it were merely an ongoing bond and 5:6 is a general invitation to be clean, the verse would have used the word HEENA/WHEN as opposed to ITHA/IF.

Probably the main factor is the fact that GOD zero's in on becoming clean as a form of preparation before the salat and He does not throw in general comments about becoming clean in other parts of the Book.

Peace,
Damon.

[Damon]

Peace Tay,

Peace Damon,

In reviewing your understanding, here's how I see it. Let me know what you think...

1) If we had sexual intercourse with our spouses. <---bathe

2). If we had defecated in the bathroom. <---wash hands, face, and feet

3) If we are ill. <---wash hands, face, and feet

4) If we have been traveling. <---wash hands, face, and feet

5) If we just awoke. <---wash hands, face, and feet

Now that I am looking at it again, I want to know for certain if traveling and illness are actual causes for the need to wash before salat OR are they merely causes which would prevent one from using water? Do you understand the question I am asking?

I believe there is a 6th condition, seperate from "intercourse with our spouses": the literal has it as "or you touched and felt repeatedly the women". I presume this is in reference to contact with our spouses, but not actual intercourse. Most translators have it as "sexual contact". In this case, washing of the hands, face, and feet is prescribed, and not a bath as is the case for intercourse.

I personally believe the second mentioning of the sexual contact in this verse is used to explain the concession of tayyamum in the case of absence/lack of water, but GOD Willing and I can look further into that and get back to you concerning what I find.

Peace,
Damon.

[Damon]

Peace be with you Layth,

I based that finding on two points, the first is the example of Moses and his people on their escape from Egypt being told to `face their homes & perform the Salat` Please note that Moses and his people are running away from where they lived, hence this can only be a physical turning to face that direction in the Salat (the logic behind it being obvious, that Moses is being chased by Pharoah comming from the city they just left, hence to have licence to face the direction Pharoah would be comming from during Salat would take away the element of surprise).

The second point is the clear command to `face the Qibla of the Restricted Temple`. The verses on this matter speak of it being a clear physical action as observed when the people were inquiring `what made them change their Qibla?`. God`s system has never changes, hence those that argue that the `Qibla` is a system that the Muslims were following and then changed it does not tally with this foundation. However, when we link the Qibla with the Salat as we can in the case of Moses in 10:87, then the entire issue becomes clear that it is a physical turning to face God`s restricted temple.

Okay, I got it now Layth....you are talking about 2:144. GOD Willing I am going to take some time today to dissect that verse and related verses to make sure that this is the correct understanding you have rendered. There is still the problem that this particular verse Does Not mention anything about the salat and therefore Does Not connect the salat with the Qibla you speak of or Masjidul-Haraam. I know of no verses in the quran which connect Qibla, salat or Masjidul-Haraam in any shape or fashion.

I have not been able to see a `special day` in the sence that you are referring to. The main indicator on this verse is the word `min` which makes it all and any days where a gathering of people takes place. Had the wording been `fi`, then the case could be made that there is one special day that the Salat is to be held in.

Okay, this sounds pretty logical to me. If by chance there is special day this verse speaks of, I think I may have an idea as to what it is. GOD Willing, I can back to you all if it seems to me that it is what I am thinking.

I have read another view (similar to your own) which was that the wudu/ablution was to be done for each Salat as per the command in 5:6 (`when you rise`). On the subject of waking from sleep, the Scripture mainly uses `tusbihoon` - rather than `qumt` (see 30:17).

30:17 only speaks of waking from sleep in the morning. According to this understanding, one would have to believe that people only sleep from night to morning which would contradict 24:58 and 30:23. According to the understanding of 24:58 and 30:23 one can partake in sleep at any time be it day or night. 30:17 only speaks of waking in the morning.

My own view is that napping/sleep does not negate the wudu for the Salat. The evidence I point to is the 2nd part of verse 5:6 which tells us that allowance to make `tayamum` (cleaning with clean soil in the absence of water) is given in the cases of: travel, illness, sexual contact, and stool. Had being asleep also required wudu, then it would have been given in the list of ietms that require wudu in the absence of water.

This appears to be a pretty soild case, but I still am not able to see it that way as of yet due to the word ITHA/If being used instead of HEENA/WHEN. GOD chooses His words wisely and there is a reason He addressed the believers using If instead of WHEN. There is also the problem of why wash our hands, face and feet or bathe at all before the salat if one is not in one of the impure states mentioned in 4:43 and 5:6? Unless we are left with the age old belief that washing before the salat is a formality to be observed just because.

Also, based on a new way I have of looking at the verses in question (4:43 and 5:6), I now have a question concerning travelling and illness. Are they conditions in and of themselves which obligate one to wash before the salat or are they roadblocks for those who are under obligation due to sex or defication?

Like Tay, I really want to get to the bottom of this and I am still having  a hard time believing the washing preparation is a mere formality that has no reason to be practiced other than because it is written without us trying to learn and understand WHY that particular command is given..

Peace,
Damon.

[Damon]

Salaam all,

I would like to pick up where I last left off concerning the issue of salatul-juma'.

Remember that I brought up the issue that 62:9 doesn't say "A" time of gathering, it says "THE" time of gathering. The reason I am saying Time of gathering instead of Day of gathering is because in the quran yawm is mainly used to describe a period of time instead of a 24 hour day. Nnhar is mainly used for 24 hour day. Brother Mirghani Hamed does a pretty good job in exploring the issue of yawm and nhar in his article on Friday Prayer which can be read by clicking on http://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/friday.htm

With the clearest definition of yawm as our point of departure, I want to see if there is anything in the quran that speaks of a specific time of gathering. Here is what I have been looking at as a possibility. I am looking forward to your views and thoughts on this.

I want to focus on verses 9 and 10 of chapter 62.

62:9 O you who believe, when the oath of allegiance is called to at the time of public gathering, then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God, and cease all selling. This is better for you, if you only knew.

62:10 Then, once the oath of allegiance is complete, you shall disperse through the land and seek God's provisions, and remember God frequently, that you may succeed.

Please pay particular attention to the sentences highlighted in red and compare them to these other verses highlighted in red.

Also, please keep the following points in mind while reading these next set of verses.

1). 62:9,10 are speaking of a time of PUBLIC gathering....a time where many people are gathered together in order to share a common event.

2). There are Two events that I have found in the quran that GOD describes as a time that the people will be gathered. One of them is the day of resurrection. Well, I can't see how GOD can be talking about that particular time in 62:9 and 10.

The other time spoken of in the quran where many people gather together is the Hajj.

Chapter 22 outlines what is to be taking place during this time that the people gather together. Please read these verses carefully, especially the verses highlighted in red, and think upon what we have just read in 62:9 and 10...

22:27 And call out to mankind with the Pilgrimage, they will come to you walking and on every transport, they will come from every deep enclosure.

22:28 So that they may witness benefits for themselves and recall God's name in the appointed days over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. So eat from it and feed the needy and the poor.

22:29 Then let them complete their duties and fulfill their vows, and let them traverse at the ancient Sanctuary.

22:30 Thus, and whosoever honours God's restrictions, then it is better for him with His Lord. And the livestock is made lawful for you except what is recited upon you. So avoid the foulness of idols and avoid saying false statements.

To my understanding, verse 27 speaks of THE time of gathering. I compare this to 62:9 that speaks of THE time of gathering.

Verse 28 speaks of the benefits we may witness at this time. The benefits at this time is twofold: the obvious spiritual benefits as well as the commercial benefits that we are allowed to pursue at this particular time. I compare this to 62:9 as well which tells us to hasten to the remberance of GOD (the spiritual benefits) and to drop all trade/business (the commercial benefits). I also compare the wording of verses 28 and 29 to the wording of 62:10 that says after the salat is completed, we may continue to seek GOD's bounties and to traverse throughout while doing so.

Of course my understanding of this may be way off base, but either way I am still interested in how others may see this as a possibility.

Peace,
Damon.