The holy valley of Tawa

[Arnold Yasin]

Peace,

As the masjid al-haram means restriction place of prostration, which refers to any place where one bows to the laws of the Quran. So this also refers to the mind as this also has to do sujood for Allah's laws. Here i wrote a little thing on this concept:

http://www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6019.msg92488#msg92488

So this is also 'wrapped within', as also valley refers to a narrow space, as that you can only see what is inside the valley when you stand inside it.

[warner]

Peace Everyone


Peace idol free

Can we use the same interpretation of Qibla for the following verses.

2 : 142   
Yusuf Ali   The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qiblah to which they were used?"  Say: To Allah belong both East and West; He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight. 

2 :143   
Yusuf Ali   Thus have We made of you an Ummah justly balanced that ye might be witnesses over the nations and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qiblah to which thou wast used only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who would turn on their heels (from the faith).  Indeed it was (a change) momentous except to those guided by Allah.  And never would Allah make your faith of no effect.  For Allah is to all people most surely full of kindness Most Merciful.   

2: 144   
Yusuf Ali   We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens; now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee.  Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; wherever ye are turn your faces in that direction.  The people of the book know well that that is the truth from their Lord nor is Allah unmindful of what they do.   

2 : 145   
Yusuf Ali   Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the signs (together) they would not follow thy Qiblah; nor art thou going to follow their Qiblah; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qiblah. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee wert to follow their (vain) desires then wert thou indeed (clearly) in the wrong.

2: 146   
Yusuf Ali   The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.


Also,


What is the verse which says to turn towards the Qiblah to do Salat , I could not find it.
(I guess I have seen it, but now I am not sure)

[Arnold Yasin]

Peace,

Yes this verse, but i don't believe salaat means bond/commitment/contact-method in every verse as it also refers to following the Quran(see how QXP translates it). Also this one is not sure to really connect qibla with salaat or even a physical direction. As it looks here more that they were inside the houses, and not far away from it. Also, it can say more that the houses should be the focus(qibla) on from the people of Moses, AND they should do salaat. So that these two are seperated. More research should be done on this. That people should stand the same way is already clear from 4:102, where they ordered to stand together with the prophet and prostrate, which for me sounds logical that all faced the same direction.

10:87Transliteration Waawhayna ila moosa waakheehi an tabawwaa liqawmikuma bimisra buyootan waijAAaloo buyootakum qiblatan waaqeemoo alssalata wabashshiri almu/mineena 

Literal And We inspired/transmitted to Moses and his brother that you (B) reside/establish houses/homes to your (B)'s nation by a city/border/region/Egypt, and make your houses/homes direction, and keep up the prayers, and announce good news (to) the believers.

Yusuf Ali We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message: "Provide dwellings for your people in Egypt, make your dwellings into places of worship, and establish regular prayers: and give glad tidings to those who believe!" 

Pickthal And We inspired Moses and his brother, (saying): Appoint houses for your people in Egypt and make your houses oratories, and establish worship. And give good news to the believers. 

Arberry And We revealed to Moses and his brother, 'Take you, for your people, in Egypt certain houses; and make your houses a direction for men to pray to; and perform the prayer; and do thou give good tidings to the believers.'

Shakir And We revealed to Musa and his brother, saying: Take for your people houses to abide in Egypt and make your houses places of worship and keep up prayer and give good news to the believers. 

Sarwar We sent a revelation to Moses and his brother to build houses for their people in the Pharaoh's town and to build them facing one another. (We told him) that therein they should pray and that Moses should give the glad news (of God's mercy) to the faithful ones.

Khalifa We inspired Moses and his brother. "Maintain your homes in Egypt for the time being, turn your homes into synagogues, and maintain the Contact Prayers (Salat). Give good news to the believers." 

Hilali/Khan And We inspired Moosa (Moses) and his brother (saying): "Take dwellings for your people in Egypt, and make your dwellings as places for your worship, and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give glad tidings to the believers."

H/K/Saheeh And We inspired to Moses and his brother, "Settle your people in Egypt in houses and make your houses [facing the] qiblah and establish prayer and give good tidings to the believers." 

Malik We revealed Our will to Moses and his brother, saying: "Take your people to dwell in Egypt, and make your houses as your Qiblah (places of worship) and establish Salah and give good news to the believers!"[87]

QXP We commanded Moses and his brother, "Maintain your homes in Egypt, and turn them into places of worship to remember God. Establish the Commandments in your lives and give good news to the believers." 

Maulana Ali And We revealed to Moses and His brother: Take for your people houses to abide in Egypt and make your houses places of worship and keep up prayer. And give good news to the believers.

Free Minds And We inspired to Moses and his brother: "Let your people leave their homes in Egypt, and let these homes be your focal point and hold the contact-method. And give good news to the believers." 

Qaribullah  We revealed to Moses and his brother: 'Take certain houses for your people in Egypt. Make your houses a direction (for pray); establish the prayer; and give glad tidings to the believers. ' 

George Sale And We spake by inspiration unto Moses and his brother, saying, provide habitations for your people in Egypt, and make your houses a place of worship, and be constant at prayer; and bear good news unto the true believers. 

JM Rodwell Then thus revealed we to Moses and to his brother: "Provide houses for your people in Egypt, and in your houses make a Kebla, and observe prayer and proclaim good tidings to the believers."

Asad And [thus] did We inspire Moses and his brother: "Set aside for your people some houses in the city, and [tell them], `Turn your houses into places of worship,'?' and be constant in prayer!' And give thou [O Moses] the glad tiding [of God's succour] to all believers."



 

[warner]

Peace ArnoldYasin

As the masjid al-haram means restriction place of prostration, which refers to any place where one bows to the laws of the Quran. So this also refers to the mind as this also has to do sujood for Allah's laws. Here i wrote a little thing on this concept

Can we use the same meaning for every place in the Quraan where masjid al haram occurs.

Can you explain the wrapped within part more since I did not understand properly. Thank you.

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you S2S,

I loved this interpretation of the story of Moses when you posted it along with the help of bro arnoldyasin explaining some parts I couldn't get around at first. May God increase you both in knowledge!

And you as well, thank you for the kind words. 

Since there has been enough heated debate as to whether this verse can be taken as an allegory, I'll just leave it aside so as not to offend anyone's strong convictions on this issue.

Respected.

IF1:
We see you looking about he skies....." but instead the qibla is WITHIN, where "al masjid al haraam" is located. We should "face" it at ALL TIMES.

S2S:
If I'm not mistaken, I think you are referring to:

[2.144] Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven, so We shall surely turn you to a qiblah which you shall like; turn then your face towards the Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it, and those who have been given the Book most surely know that it is the truth from their Lord; and Allah is not at all heedless of what they do.

This is a very perceptive interpretation of the issue of "qibla" but how does one turn one's face to "within"?

When we ponder on this verse, we have to ask ourselves the question, can we physically face in the direction of a physical stucture AT ALL TIMES, WHEREVER WE ARE? (caps for emphasis only). Since we cannot we have to look at the allegorical side. Without dragging it out, to "face" the resticted masjid is to have the CHARACTER of the "restricted masjid". Where ever we are we are to maintain this character. The face is what helps one determine another persons nature, for example when someone is frowning or crying is different from one who is smiling or laughing. Just give it some thought while reading all related verses.

So turning our face within is to say that we EMULATE the God's attributes which are within us, not imitate faulty humans outside of us. Also, to add more to this, did you know that the origin of people looking to the sky for God is due to astrology. It is true that the heavens influence our behavior, but the test of life is to not be compeleed by the compelling forces of life but to transcend them and live God-like, manifestig the God's attributes both in thoughts(jinn) and actions(insaan), and that is how jinn and man SERVE the God, but being Its vehicle of expression.

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you Warner,

Peace idol free

Can we use the same interpretation of Qibla for the following verses.

2 : 142   
Yusuf Ali   The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qiblah to which they were used?"  Say: To Allah belong both East and West; He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight. 

Yes. The word "qibla" only means direction of focus. Regarding the above verse, all humans are born focused on the external world, at some point in thier spiritual development, just like our examples, we have to change our focus from the outer material world to the inner metaphysical world which controls the outer world. We have to start dealing with al ghayb (the unseen) and the hidden(al jinn). Remember the God says that It does not change the condition of a people until they change what is IN thier spirits(nafs). Facing an external structure is dismissed with teh statement that to The God belongs East and West (all points).

2 :143   
Yusuf Ali   Thus have We made of you an Ummah justly balanced that ye might be witnesses over the nations and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qiblah to which thou wast used only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who would turn on their heels (from the faith).  Indeed it was (a change) momentous except to those guided by Allah.  And never would Allah make your faith of no effect.  For Allah is to all people most surely full of kindness Most Merciful.   

Again, all of mankind starts out focused on the external world, that is the TEST to see who will follow the MESSAGE of the inner journey, or remain on the path of shayteen.

2: 144   
Yusuf Ali   We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens; now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee.  Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; wherever ye are turn your faces in that direction.  The people of the book know well that that is the truth from their Lord nor is Allah unmindful of what they do.   

This verse has already been discussed, but I just want to give my understanding of "al masjid al haraam".  Mankind serves as the God's vehicle of expression on Earth. Therefore we must be FREE from compulsion. However some people do not realize that it is a freedom through restrictions. Without restrictions this freedom could be used for wickedness. Al masjid al haraam means "the place of hearing and obeying the restrictions".  So the verse means that AT ALL TIMES, our focus in life should be on manifesting the character of the God!!! Powerful message this is! Unfortunately it is too heavy for many people who would rather just sin and sin then seek forgiveness from some type of savior. No, we were created to SERVE the God as its vehicle of righteousness in the world, not to cause havoc al over the earth then beg forgiveness.

2 : 145   
Yusuf Ali   Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the signs (together) they would not follow thy Qiblah; nor art thou going to follow their Qiblah; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qiblah. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee wert to follow their (vain) desires then wert thou indeed (clearly) in the wrong.

This verse just shows how most people are focused on different objectives, money, opposite gender, children, intoxicants, etc.

You can bring one all of the external signs, but change does not take place in anyone until they make corrections WITHIN thier spirit(nafs). They are ultimately responsible.

2: 146   
Yusuf Ali   The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.

Yes, the universe is right in front of us all "people of the book(universe)" verifying each and every statement of truth at every second. For example, someone says "dont smoke, it is bad for you", and the people of this universe can see universal law working every single day verifying this fact, but many try to conceal this truth to either make profit or indulge in a conditioning that has them enslaved.

Also,

What is the verse which says to turn towards the Qiblah to do Salat , I could not find it.
(I guess I have seen it, but now I am not sure)

We are not told to face any direction for "salaat", so there will not be any such verse to find. 

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you,

Regarding 10:87, I am not 100% sure of the verse. If we take Egypt as the actual place, then to me it speaks on the Wisdom that came from this place in history. If it is not literally Egypt, then we need to know what it means. Further, we need to investigate the difference between House and the "tabawwaa " which is translated sometimes as house or residence.

[Tay]

Peace All,

I'm glad to see this thread get back on track. My apologies for contributing to it's "derailment".

Peace,
Tay