Author Topic: Question: correct translation for Qur'an 2:49  (Read 983 times)

no_shirk

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Question: correct translation for Qur'an 2:49
« on: June 15, 2006, 02:03:26 PM »
Salaam

I was looking at Qur'an 2:49 "And We saved you from the people of Pharaoh; they were punishing you with severe retribution, killing your children, and raping your women. In that was a great trial from your Lord."

Look at the Arabic text and pay attention to the last Arabic word which is Azeem [Great]

Wa-ith najjaynakum min alifirAAawna yasoomoonakum soo-a alAAathabi yuthabbihoonaabnaakum wayastahyoona nisaakum wafee thalikumbalaon min rabbikum azeem

The last Arabic word in this verse is Azeem [Great], but I notice that  lot of people translate "Azeem" in referrence to "trial" so a lot of people will translate "Great Trial" but my question is this

since its the last Arabic word in that verse and in that verse we see "min Rabbikum Azeem" then shouldn't that word "Azeem [Great]" be in referrence to "God" and not "trial"?

Maybe some people here can give some insight to this question?

decepticus

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Definitely no way!
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2006, 02:48:13 PM »
It is impossible that "Azeem" could refer to God since "Azeem" is not "moaarraf". To refer to God, it should have been : "balaaon min rabbikom ALazeemi" but it is clearly "balaaon min rabbikom azeemon"

My english is very poor, that's why I can not explain the arabic grammatical rules. May be AB can help?  :yay:
"Et nunc, reges, intelligite ; erudimini, qui judicatis terram !"

AhmedBahgat

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Re: Question: correct translation for Qur'an 2:49
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2006, 03:14:11 AM »
Peace

In reference to 2:49, yes it has to be describing the trial, the word Azeem used in such context many time in the Quran

regarding the Al "moaarraf", Asmaa Allah can be without the Al as long as the context is clear that it is refering to Him:

One who had the knowledge of the Book said: I will bring it to you in the twinkling of an eye. Then when he saw it settled beside him, he said: This is of the grace of my Lord that He may try me whether I am grateful or ungrateful; and whoever is grateful, he is grateful only for his own soul, and whoever is ungrateful, then surely my Lord is Self-sufficient, Honored.
[The Quran ; 27:40]
قَالَ الَّذِي عِندَهُ عِلْمٌ مِّنَ الْكِتَابِ أَنَا آتِيكَ بِهِ قَبْلَ أَن يَرْتَدَّ إِلَيْكَ طَرْفُكَ فَلَمَّا رَآهُ مُسْتَقِرًّا عِندَهُ قَالَ هَذَا مِن فَضْلِ رَبِّي لِيَبْلُوَنِي أَأَشْكُرُ أَمْ أَكْفُرُ وَمَن شَكَرَ فَإِنَّمَا يَشْكُرُ لِنَفْسِهِ وَمَن كَفَرَ فَإِنَّ رَبِّي غَنِيٌّ كَرِيمٌ (40)


Peace to All

Samia

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Re: Question: correct translation for Qur'an 2:49
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2006, 12:45:51 AM »
Salam all


 The idafa construction (rabbokom) is definite "mo3arraf" and therefore the adjective "3atheem" should have been with "al" if it was related to "rabbokom" because the adjective conforms with the noun it describes in number, gender, grammar and definitness. There is no conformity here with definitness nor with grammar (case ending) as decepticus put it.

The wrong translation is in (rape your women). In fact it is (spare your women's lives) from the root 7 y w: life. It wants to show how  mothers suffered from the murdering of their children. The example of the suffering of a mother is given to us in the story of (um Musa). She was not raped; and funny enough, his father was not mentioned, not that he did not have a father or his father did not suffer, but the mother's suffering was greater. Maybe if she was to be raped and her child saved would be much easier for her.

no_shirk

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Re: Question: correct translation for Qur'an 2:49
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2006, 02:50:23 PM »
Salaam

Thanks for your response and I agree that "rape women" is a mistranslation.  Help me understand what you mean here maybe i over looked something

The idafa construction (rabbokom) is definite "mo3arraf" and therefore the adjective "3atheem" should have been with "al" if it was related to "rabbokom" because the adjective conforms with the noun it describes in number, gender, grammar and definitness. There is no conformity here with definitness nor with grammar (case ending) as decepticus put it.

so is "azeem" in that verse referring to Allah or the trial?  I will wait for your answer and thanks.


Salam all


 The idafa construction (rabbokom) is definite "mo3arraf" and therefore the adjective "3atheem" should have been with "al" if it was related to "rabbokom" because the adjective conforms with the noun it describes in number, gender, grammar and definitness. There is no conformity here with definitness nor with grammar (case ending) as decepticus put it.

The wrong translation is in (rape your women). In fact it is (spare your women's lives) from the root 7 y w: life. It wants to show how  mothers suffered from the murdering of their children. The example of the suffering of a mother is given to us in the story of (um Musa). She was not raped; and funny enough, his father was not mentioned, not that he did not have a father or his father did not suffer, but the mother's suffering was greater. Maybe if she was to be raped and her child saved would be much easier for her.

Samia

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Re: Question: correct translation for Qur'an 2:49
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2006, 12:19:41 AM »
Salaam

Thanks for your response and I agree that "rape women" is a mistranslation.  Help me understand what you mean here maybe i over looked something

The idafa construction (rabbokom) is definite "mo3arraf" and therefore the adjective "3atheem" should have been with "al" if it was related to "rabbokom" because the adjective conforms with the noun it describes in number, gender, grammar and definitness. There is no conformity here with definitness nor with grammar (case ending) as decepticus put it.

so is "azeem" in that verse referring to Allah or the trial?  I will wait for your answer and thanks.

It referres to the trial

Wakas

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Re: Question: correct translation for Qur'an 2:49
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2006, 05:22:49 AM »
the "un" at the end of AAatheemun makes it indefinite, thus it can only refer to an indefinite noun.
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