Author Topic: Challenge to all rejectors of the Divinity of Al-Quraan : Moderated Debates  (Read 13835 times)

mquran

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Salaamun alaikum,

Key : The Camp Against Al-Quraan's Divinity : (A)
        The Camp Supporting Al-Quraan's Divinity (P)   
This is a formal challenge to everyone here who reject the divinity of Al-Quraan to a moderated debate as per the moderated debate suggestion in the other thread especially to the following individuals:
1. Enquirer
2. Danish
3. Lote-Tree

The format of the debate - which I am prepared to negotiate on- is tentatively as follows:
1. A will forward an argument supporting it's cause, perhaps a contradiction

2. B will reply or seek clarification and the moderator in question will see if the response or clarification will meet A's aforementioned argument.

3. B will then ask A a question vis-a-vis the nature or basis of his argument.

4. A will respond and moderators will determine if the answer has been answered.

This will continue until the argument is satisfactorily treated.

My suggestion for moderator : Layth or Zenje.

Awaiting your responses. Let us now see the substance of your positions.


LoteTree

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This is a formal challenge to everyone here who reject the divinity of Al-Quraan to a moderated debate as per the moderated debate suggestion in the other thread especially to the following individuals:
1. Enquirer
2. Danish
3. Lote-Tree

Hey why me again? - why am I always the whipping boy around here!!
And who gave you the permission to use my name?

Regards,

mquran

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Lote-Tree: Hey why me again? - why am I always the whipping boy around here!!

http://www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=3617.0 <--- that's why.

You made allegations thus I am callling on you to defend them.


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And who gave you the permission to use my name?

Do I need permission to quote your name? Did you need permission to make allegations against al-quraan? No you didn't. Therefore, you either will or won't accept the challenge. And we will know how truthful you are.



LoteTree

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Lote-Tree: Hey why me again? - why am I always the whipping boy around here!!

http://www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=3617.0 <--- that's why.

You made allegations thus I am callling on you to defend them.

Highlights the bits that upsets you in that thread.

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Do I need permission to quote your name?

Yes. I am an individual.

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Did you need permission to make allegations against al-quraan?

Quranic text is in the public domain.

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Therefore, you either will or won't accept the challenge.

I will not entertain your Ego. To me you are not a man of integrity.

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And we will know how truthful you are.

My Truthfulness is for me and My God Alone.
I don't need your approval.

Regards,

Magi

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peace bro Mq.

cant you see that this whole thing is moot to begin with. IF the challengers, who reject the Qurans divinity has to prove or disprove this from the Quran itself, you haev a paradox. Why should or would they use the scripture like that? My reasons to disbelieve it as the direct word of God, is mere observation of earlyer sysetems mixed with sound reasoning, their ideas, origins etc. Those are not to be found in the document known as Quran. This whole debate will fall back on "The Quran is true because the Quran says it is true", thus there is no way they can defend their stand, and for me. that is simply not good enough. God is obvious, i dont need shady textural excercises to understand this fact, or behave in a proper manner. And the fact that im currently meeting monotheists from all over the world, from various creeds, shows that im right. The message is eternal and not trapped in any single book. You can spend most of your life studying this scripture and not understand a damn thing, and there will be people who never opened a book at all, who have it all pretty well nailed down.


mquran

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LT :Highlights the bits that upsets you in that thread.

Nothing *upsets* me in that thread. What I'm after is fair play, that's all. You allege, you defend or it shows your integrity.


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Yes. I am an individual.

Well, when you copyright your handle (not your name) instead of getting it from the book you disparage, then you can sue me.


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Quranic text is in the public domain.

So is my challenge.


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I will not entertain your Ego. To me you are not a man of integrity.


Nice dodge. Will you debate ANYONE else?



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My Truthfulness is for me and My God Alone.
I don't need your approval.

Try to get the point, please. The points are as follows:
1. You have opinions
2. You're not hesitant to air your opinions (about the beliefs of others in a quranic forum, no less)
3. Others challenge you to defend your points.
4. You duck and dive and refuse to meet the points.
5. Others challenge you to a moderated debate. You refuse but retain the right to disparage and criticise.

It's not about approval. It's about righteous behaviour of which you have little of in this particular issue.

mquran

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cant you see that this whole thing is moot to begin with. IF the challengers, who reject the Qurans divinity has to prove or disprove this from the Quran itself, you haev a paradox.


Why is this paradoxical if the parts of al-quraan they use are alleged to be false?



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Why should or would they use the scripture like that? My reasons to disbelieve it as the direct word of God, is mere observation of earlyer sysetems mixed with sound reasoning, their ideas, origins etc. Those are not to be found in the document known as Quran.


And that's fine. Your friends didn't allege so. They alleged al-quraan has contradictions and I'm challenging that.


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This whole debate will fall back on "The Quran is true because the Quran says it is true", thus there is no way they can defend their stand, and for me. that is simply not good enough.

It's not good enough for me either (because that's not why al-quraan is divine anyway) but seeing your 'will fall back' statement has disclosed your research into the matter. Sad to see you stopped where you stopped.


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God is obvious, i dont need shady textural excercises to understand this fact, or behave in a proper manner. And the fact that im currently meeting monotheists from all over the world, from various creeds, shows that im right. The message is eternal and not trapped in any single book. You can spend most of your life studying this scripture and not understand a damn thing, and there will be people who never opened a book at all, who have it all pretty well nailed down.

Fine. Good luck in your path.

LoteTree

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LT :Highlights the bits that upsets you in that thread.

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Nothing *upsets* me in that thread.

Then case closed! Go about your business.
And leave me out of it!

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Quranic text is in the public domain.

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So is my challenge.

Then don't use my name.

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It's not about approval. It's about righteous behaviour of which you have little of in this particular issue.

My righteous behaviour is with myself and My God alone.
I don't need your approval on my righteous behaviour.

Regards,

enquirer

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Peace all. Magis post highlights some very pertinent points about this whole 'debate'...
I will add another...What is meant by 'divinity'?...

mquran

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LT:Then case closed! Go about your business.
And leave me out of it!

Some things never change, eh LT? You see cut people's posts in half and try to fake your way through. Let me clarify:

1. What you write doesn't emote me personally
2. However, I do intend to clarify things for present and future readers.

You didn't *want* to be left out of it. You *wanted* to air your views and now I'm issuing a challenge. Take it or not, it will be clear that people like yourself aren't exactly forthright in your convictions.


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Then don't use my name.

Sure, what you can do is, declare that all the tripe you posted before was unsubstantiated and that you never did any research. Then it'd be a moot point to challenge you.


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My righteous behaviour is with myself and My God alone.
I don't need your approval on my righteous behaviour.

Are you unable read or something? My response was:
Try to get the point, please. The points are as follows:
1. You have opinions
2. You're not hesitant to air your opinions (about the beliefs of others in a quranic forum, no less)
3. Others challenge you to defend your points.
4. You duck and dive and refuse to meet the points.
5. Others challenge you to a moderated debate. You refuse but retain the right to disparage and criticise.

It's not about approval. It's about righteous behaviour of which you have little of in this particular issue.

If your righteous behaviour is between you and God, then my point regarding you 'book-free' spiritualists is made even before the debate. You guys simply create your ethos as you go along. It's ok to defecate on the views of others but not ok for them to challenge you. How 'just'...