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Dying in a state of kufr and shirk

Started by CavemanDoctor, March 08, 2006, 11:18:56 PM

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imrankhawaja

Quote from: imrankhawaja on August 15, 2018, 08:54:31 PM


same like salat is broad as per quran and a perfect examples of anti musali are in chapter 7 ..



typing error , chapter 107

Zulf

Quote from: good logic on August 16, 2018, 11:08:14 AM
Peace Zulf.
What do you make of Qoran?

Does it not answer this:Who says we know about 'one true God' now?

There is nothing here under the sun that has not been taught by someone or something.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

The Quran? I don't know. But I'm biased in favor of divine inspiration... but I find interpretations disturbing.
So, if I find something disturbing, it can be for different reasons.
I will always be biased and subjective, but the question is to what extent and in what questions.
I can be biased and at the same time right or wrong.
Perhaps I find stuff disturbing simply because the text interpretations are wrong, against common sense and reason... but common sense and reason are at the same time very subjective.
But I think it is best if we cross reference everything against everything else, if you know what I mean. Insight can come from anywhere, or be triggered by anything.

From experience it seems like this:
Nobody is right about everything. You can find people who are really enlightened or insightful about something, and then they have very odd ideas about something else.
So, nobody is perfect in knowledge and understanding. When you realize this you can avoid disappointment. Some people are not comfortable with such disappointment and instead prefer perfect people with perfect knowledge, and so they get stuck in sects and what not.

I actually think that the brain/mind/intellect is a sharp double edged sword.
It is a curse upon us, a burden and challenge, while at the same time we can fine tune it and use it to understand it's dangers and thereby avoid being trapped in blindness by it.
The intellect can enslave you, but also be used to make your way forward and design thinking habits which prevent you from being intellectually enslaved/blinded.
"I don't know" is much better that a false and factually incorrect idea.

:sun:
If you name me, you negate me.

good logic

I understand you brother Zulf.
My problem is how long do we remain a "do not know"?
We have to pursue/carry on a journey towards "I must try my best to know". Even a false knowledge is better than a "do not know".

I suppose when challenged with a better knowledge from others ,we must not remain in our false knowledge because of pride.
Our instinct and logic will always warn us from being "dogmatic" if we are honest and sincere ,we will listen.
Thanks and GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

hawk99

Again, shirk is no mystery:


There is shirk via taghut. (following what he says as opposed to what Allah says)

We have institutionalized shirk. (governments)

There is cultural shirk. (Ancestors, additions put in place)

There is shirk thru ego. (What I want)

There is shirk from arrogance. (I don't listen)

Belief in false claims that folks know the unseen.  (I need help from fortune tellers, mystics etc.,)

Beliefs contrary to Quran     :hmm  yeah I know, needs further explanations

Shirk because of emotional and physical needs. (boyfriend, girlfriend)

Innovations.
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

The Sardar

Quote from: hawk99 on August 20, 2018, 12:42:01 PM
Again, shirk is no mystery:


There is shirk via taghut. (following what he says as opposed to what Allah says)

We have institutionalized shirk. (governments)

There is cultural shirk. (Ancestors, additions put in place)

There is shirk thru ego. (What I want)

There is shirk from arrogance. (I don't listen)

Belief in false claims that folks know the unseen.  (I need help from fortune tellers, mystics etc.,)

Beliefs contrary to Quran     :hmm  yeah I know, needs further explanations

Shirk because of emotional and physical needs. (boyfriend, girlfriend)

Innovations.
In the bolded, racism is used like that.

Jafar

Quote from: good logic on August 17, 2018, 05:11:43 PM
My problem is how long do we remain a "do not know"?

It's not a problem at all, the more "don't know" that you have, the more enlightened that you shall be.
As for how long? Until the end of times..

QuoteWe have to pursue/carry on a journey towards "I must try my best to know". Even a false knowledge is better than a "do not know".

The more enlightened you are, the more questions that you shall have.
The more questions that you shall have, the more "do not know" that you shall have.

The less enlightened you are, the less questions that you shall have.
The less questions that you shall have, the less "do not know" that you shall have.

False knowledge is a hint / clue for the path of true knowledge.
You can realize the truth through recognition of falsehood.
Once you realize the truth of a question, more additional questions shall sprung up which demanded answer.

The question is can you realize falsehood within your own idea / hypothesis?
If you can, then the more enlightened shall you become, new questions shall instantly sprung up after you found an answer to a question, thus you shall realize that there is so many more things that you actually "don't know".


"Enlightenment takes place when one lets his innocence emerge and sees nature and life with a childlike awe and respect. The ?why? of a child is repeated over and over, causing questions and the never-ending process of discovery."
-- Charles DuBack

hawk99


Quote from: hawk99 on August 20, 2018, 12:42:01 PM
Again, shirk is no mystery:


There is shirk via taghut. (following what he says as opposed to what Allah says)

We have institutionalized shirk. (governments)

There is cultural shirk. (Ancestors, additions put in place)

There is shirk thru ego. (What I want)

There is shirk from arrogance. (I don't listen)

Belief in false claims that folks know the unseen.  (I need help from fortune tellers, mystics etc.,)

Beliefs contrary to Quran     :hmm  yeah I know, needs further explanations

Shirk because of emotional and physical needs. (boyfriend, girlfriend)

Innovations.


Quote from: The Sardar on August 20, 2018, 01:51:24 PM
In the bolded, racism is used like that.


Interesting, you point out the paradigm that shirk equals negativity
in many forms, thanks. 


                                                  :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

SarahY

Goodlogic
I never wondered if intentional ignorance would "let me loose". I think we have a duty to discover and learn and our learning or lack of will have its consequences.

I intend to read more on shirk there's quite alot of verses related to it. Though ATM I've been busy prioritising worldly life. Just got into a job and it's not quite smooth running as I had hoped.

I agree with Jafar that not knowing isn?t the worst of things actually it?s maybe even humbling but I also think not knowing makes one feel deficient.

Makaveli
QuoteWould someone know he/she is commiting idolatry if that person lived away from multi-cultural civilizations and before the Internet? In other words, happen you did not know about "one true God", would you "shirk"?
What do you think?

Imrankhawaja
I don?t know anywhere that grants a pass with 40%. some courses I did needed 70% pass rates but yeah fear is human nature. The anxiety of not knowing or failing stresses people differently.

About speaking against parents, I don't think it's a major sin though in my culture it's def frowned upon. Speaking against doesn't necessarily mean offing, swearing or being rude. Having an opinion that isn?t congruent can be quite conflicting particularly with authoritarian mindsets. 

Hawk99
Based on what you have outlined it would seem shirk is very easy to commit.
We?re all governed by laws/governments, everyone grew up in a culture that has customs and people add and subtract to what suits them ? consciously or not, we all want things.

We all have blind spots.
Follow your heart but take your brain with you.
ambiguity is there for a reason, why do you think?
We're all different, so how can we all be equal?

imrankhawaja

Quote from: SarahY on August 21, 2018, 05:02:04 PM


I don?t know anywhere that grants a pass with 40%. some courses I did needed 70%


i was telling about my school exams passing percentage to promote a student to next level , in some areas the percentage of passing marks is even 33 %.

and it depends from level to level in some fields you have to qualify by even 90 % like in intelligence selection or public service commission exams and even in some there is no limit of higher percentage whoever comes at first 100 positions out of millions will get select...

but when i was reading your post i was thinking you are referring towards chap 101 its simple weights high and low.

Quote from: SarahY on August 21, 2018, 05:02:04 PM

  yeah fear is human nature. The anxiety of not knowing or failing stresses people differently.


FEAR is main programe of this life .IT  makes you reach your goal and keep telling you that you are in some kind of race towards betterment.. thats what everybodys thinking from worldy life to life hereafter.

Quote from: SarahY on August 21, 2018, 05:02:04 PM

About speaking against parents, I don't think it's a major sin though in my culture it's def frowned upon. Speaking against doesn't necessarily mean offing, swearing or being rude. Having an opinion that isn?t congruent can be quite conflicting particularly with authoritarian mindsets. 


we misunderstood eachother..
obviously we can speak against our parents if we found them doing wrong or we can also debate with them on different issues but its nothing to b worried for or consider it as wrong doing .. respect is another thing and thinking about our life is another thing..

another part in it when they reached at their old age and start behaving like kids then we dnt have to say a slight guesture of "uff"..at this age sense of feeling is like child and we should keep this thing in mind, they raised us as kids so both are different time situations of life.

Quote from: SarahY on August 21, 2018, 05:02:04 PM
? consciously or not, we all want things.

very true ..
thats what life is. life circle around things. things generate the business and earning of life system.. 

in this life we have been created in struggle these things may b not valueable in hereafter as they are valueable here thats why when religious texts give a metaphor of hereafter to worldly related things they tell "plenty".

Zulf

Quote from: SarahY on August 21, 2018, 05:02:04 PM
I agree with Jafar that not knowing isn?t the worst of things actually it?s maybe even humbling but I also think not knowing makes one feel deficient.

Hey all,

People feel deficient and lost when in a state of not knowing. That's why people 'believe' stuff. A belief is comforting and soothing... something you can hook your mind and identity on. A crutch.
But people often claim to know when they actually only believe. You 'believe' when you actually 'don't know'. But it's hard to admit.
If you name me, you negate me.