Quote from: SarahY on August 31, 2018, 10:10:34 AM
I think not knowing is total different than knowing about something and intentionally ignoring or intentionally not willing to find out. Let me give an example. I know to get a good high school certificate grade I need to study xyz, I don’t know xyz but if I intentionally choose to not find out well I might be setting myself to failure. Let’s say I lived in another country where such a criteria was non-existent nor was it even valued. I’m not a total reject, I had no knowledge of such a system nor was it relevant so I couldn’t be labelled as incompetent or whatevs because of not knowing. Certain things are specific to time and place, and also knowledge.
Regardless of what 'xyz' is there for you, there is something each person intentionally rejects regardless of his cultural background or whether or not a doctrine or knowledge or teaching is proposed in his/her cultural background. It is not to say one is intentionally "rejecting". The Quran alone rejects the meaning of "disbelievers" for kafiirun because many of them are influenced by the "Quran Miracle" theory, so to claim one has to blindly
believe is thus erreneous for them. How could God ask others to blindly believe and punish them fail they do so? So they make up the out-of-the-blue meaning for this word, saying someone "rejects" in case provided with "truth". Hence was my question, is someone considered to live/die in a state of kufr in case he/she was NOT introduced to such concepts? In any case, whatever they call this term, belief or reject is nowhere to be found in any Semitic language as far as I am concerned and both concepts are deluded, since each person is subject to rejection once he/she acquires initial education/backgroud/cultural values/morals. It is a matter of how far a "rejector" are you. Are you "open minded" (even though I dislike the term seeing how enforced it is in nowadays society), or how closed-minded i.e.
convervative are you in areas like religion, family, M and F rights and obligations, child education et cetera. Most people do it autonomously, without giving it a thought when introduced to something, they simply "disagree", however, in reality they do not because they have not even understood the concept to begin with, let alone reject it. They simply feel it goes against their established values, therefore such information 'must be' automatically deemed as erreneous. It is done on the subconscious level. Even within the given culture there are contradictory concepts, like the age old one
Kill Vs Murder. This is a great example of a phenomenon called
double think when two or more bipolar views are simultaneously accepted or their meanings are taken into account despite evident contradiction because of other factors, such as a fear of being misunderstood by society, a fear of authority etc.
Quote from: SarahY on August 31, 2018, 10:10:34 AM
According to my understanding of the Quran one is advised not to call others rejecters/disbelievers as we don’t know what clear evidences/truths they know or have grasped. Thus I believe ultimately God is the judge regardless of my views of their rightness or wrongness.
Nonetheless we can see hundreds of threads in this forum alone dedicated to the problem of "kufr", "shirk" and an overall "disbelieve" or "rejection", which is evident how people are interested in such concepts, and how they like to judge others based on their understanding. If anything, don't you think, reading and understanding the Quran, like any other spiritual guidance for that matter, then, in such a case, should be a personal activity and not something extended within general society?
Quote from: SarahY on August 31, 2018, 10:10:34 AM
It’s not always a misery, for some ignorance is bliss. I think apathy on most things can be negative. I don’t understand your emphasis on astray, unless you’re going with traditionalist views that when a women leads, a society will crumble or some nonsense. It is assumed men will guide and lead however even when women do in today’s societies there are men who feel threatened and men who continue to adopt patriarchal ways without even realising. Be it because of culture, ignorance, laziness or just taking advantage of women knowingly or unknowingly or whatever other reason. Not saying all men are such but where I’m from they can sing and dance about women’s rights day in and out but traditional expectations still seem to be the norm.
Astray is what 'they' believe women is subject to unless lead by a man, who is traditionally given "divine" authority over women. Women who accept this are what is usually labeled
submissive, commonly accepted to be a coherent translation for muslim. Now, when you say
"salem allaykum", do you mean
"be a slave"? What do all (majority of?) other non-Semitic languages have for greeting?
