Dying in a state of kufr and shirk

[CavemanDoctor]

First, I'd appreciate it if anyone has a good article about shirk/kufr and what they entail.

I decided to make this thread after receiving some illuminating posts in another thread I made: http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5249&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

In that thread, claurianta brought up a point about one dying in a state of shirk doesn't necessarily mean going to Hell.

I think this is a very important issue. Is shirk different from other sins (e.g. hoarding money) only by degree or is it categorically different? What about kufr?

If one dies in a state of shirk, does one automatically go to Hell according to the Qur'an, or is it merely examined as one of any number of sins. What about a state of kufr?

I always interpreted the Qur'an to say that if one dies in state of shirk, one was going to Hell. Now I'm not so sure.

The main verse I always thought of was:

4:48 "GOD does not forgive idolatry, but He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who sets up idols beside GOD, has forged a horrendous offense."

Peace.

[AhmedBahgat]

First, I'd appreciate it if anyone has a good article about shirk/kufr and what they entail.

Peace

I wil try to put one together for you

I decided to make this thread after receiving some illuminating posts in another thread I made: http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5249&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

In that thread, claurianta brought up a point about one dying in a state of shirk doesn't necessarily mean going to Hell.

this is NOT true, if anyone dies in shirk state, then Game Over, thrown in hell for eternity and Allah told us it will not be forgiven but He also told us that they will last in Hell as long as He desires, and if He wants to remove them from Hell, He can do it with ease, but He said the same about the paradise dwellers as well, which an indication for His supreme power and control

I think this is a very important issue. Is shirk different from other sins (e.g. hoarding money) only by degree or is it categorically different? What about kufr?

of course it is damn important for everyone, yes shirk is different to other sins, in fact it is the mother of all sins and Allah told us, it can't be forgiven, it is on the same level as Kufr though

If one dies in a state of shirk, does one automatically go to Hell according to the Qur'an, or is it merely examined as one of any number of sins. What about a state of kufr?

100% must go to Hell according to the Quran, at least for a very long period according to the Quran, the good deeds will only come into account if its doers is not Kafir or Mushrik

I see Shirk different to Kufr but both are the mothers of all sins and can't be forgiven according to the Quran, please wait for my long comment that will shade some light on this important issue

I always interpreted the Qur'an to say that if one dies in state of shirk, one was going to Hell. Now I'm not so sure.

be 100% assured bro, it will happen exactly as Allah told us in the Quran, Allah does not change His words bro and all His promises must be fulfilled according to the Quran

The main verse I always thought of was:

4:48 "GOD does not forgive idolatry, but He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who sets up idols beside GOD, has forged a horrendous offense."

Peace.

and there are many more actually, please wait for my long comment but it will take me a bit of time to put together, in the above verse you posted it clearly says that shirk will not be forgiven, as well the verse clealy inclines that shirk is the mother of all sins

peace be with you

[CavemanDoctor]

Thanks Ahmed.

I await your next post.

[rahenijaat1]

Salam and Peace!


Dying in a state of shirk and kufr,--------he is lost!

Only such a person will be looking for Shafa'ut from the pious people.-----But in vain!!!

[SarahY]

I know this is an old thread but thought why create a new one.

I guess the living fear is to die in a state of shirk and or kufr. 

There?s always conversations about who is right and who isn?t and how right we are and how wrong they are. e.g: Sunnis vs other Sunnis, Sunnis vs Quranists, Sunnis vs Shias, Muslims vs Christians etc, etc. Though I think that?s a very simplistic approach as we all commit wrong in one way or another. So how do we know we?re free from shirk?

Besides blatant associations with God, worshiping of multiple deities what do you understand shirk to be?

I?ve heard from traditional sunni?s that following your own desires is a form of shirk though I?ve not read any quranic reference to this?

Interestingly there is a verse about people believing in God but only while they do shirk 12:106. So the assumption of being a believer or monotheist doesn?t mean we?re free from it.

I wanted to learn more about shirk but didn?t really find much articles on it. If anyone has any links or thoughts please feel free to share.

To the original post it seems that one who does commit shirk is forbidden to go to jannah and their abode is fire and are the worst of all people (5:72, 98:6)

[huruf]

I read something as to hen you are sure you believe in God, and only Him, hen you do not fear anything else.

Many things in the way to God, I think, are aims that you get nearer and nearer hopefully, but not necessarily that you are there. You get nearer but reaching the end that ould be to return to God completely.
A long way.
Salaam

[good logic]

Peace SarahY.
Total loyalty to GOD Alone is hard .
Basically it is easier to say we believe with our lips, our actions are something else.

How many believe in GOD but do not believe GOD. Look at all the denominations, they say they reverence GOD but believe other entities can help them, save them, intercede on their behalf...

GOD  says to us that He is our provider, our protector, our only Lord... But we seek other than GOD for our provision, health, protection...

Two forces in action (Body/illusion v spirit/reality), we are caught up in the middle in a tug of war.

To me, shirk is believing anything  other than GOD can benefit you or harm you, once you are aware of GOD s power and traits.

If we believe in GOD through His message ,then we must believe what GOD is saying to us and trust in Him Alone for our salvation. No idols. Total loyalty  to GOD Alone.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Jafar]

I guess the living fear is to die in a state of shirk and or kufr. 

The living fear is to die itself.
Fear of losing everything, fear of uncertainty.

Ruler uses those fear to benefits him / her.

There?s always conversations about who is right and who isn?t and how right we are and how wrong they are. e.g: Sunnis vs other Sunnis, Sunnis vs Quranists, Sunnis vs Shias, Muslims vs Christians etc, etc. Though I think that?s a very simplistic approach as we all commit wrong in one way or another. So how do we know we?re free from shirk?

By conquering your own fear.. of death.
By accepting death.. when the time comes.
And truly believe that you were, are and always will be in good hands.
By then you shall no longer have any fear.

Besides blatant associations with God, worshiping of multiple deities what do you understand shirk to be?

This is ridiculous, if a soul was put within a culture of X.
99% probability he/she will follow the culture of X.

Put the soul within the context of 1930s Germany and 99% probability he/she will support the Nazi and hate the lesser races (Jews and others).
Put the soul within the context of 2000 BC Akkadian and 99% probability he/she will worship Marduk, Bel, Pazuzu, and any deities invented by Abraham's father and support or perform human sacrifice.
Put the soul within the context of 500 AD Arabs and 99% probability he/she will worship Manaf, Uzza, Allat and support or perform the black cube ritual dedicated to Hubal.
Put the soul within the context of 0 AD Judea and 99% probability he/she will worship YHVH and support the death penalty to Jesus.

And the true God know this very well too, if the true God really wanted to blame anyone, He should blame Himself for putting the soul within the cultural context of X.

[good logic]

Peace Jafar.
you say, quote:
And the true God know this very well too, if the true God really wanted to blame anyone, He should blame Himself for putting the soul within the cultural context of X

I say:  If the GOD is to blame for putting people in a certain time and culture, then what is the use of choices and decisions that people take? Or are you saying the GOD is forcing you to take the choices and make the decisions in your life? Or may be the GOD is to blame for all that He creates?
Easy way to get out of accountability!!! The irony is you would not even be  here to blame anyone or question anything if the GOD has not created you at all.
But we can all talk. Typical of us to argue with and blame our creator, that is how we thank Him for His favours!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[good logic]

Peace SarahY
Some verses about shirk that I meant to quote with my earlier post:
22:11
Among the people there is the one who worships/serves God conditionally. If things go his way, he is content. But if some adversity befalls him, he makes an about-face. Thus, he loses both this life and the Hereafter. Such is the real loss.
وَمِنَ النّاسِ مَن يَعبُدُ اللَّهَ عَلىٰ حَرفٍ فَإِن أَصابَهُ خَيرٌ اطمَأَنَّ بِهِ وَإِن أَصابَتهُ فِتنَةٌ انقَلَبَ عَلىٰ وَجهِهِ خَسِرَ الدُّنيا وَالـٔاخِرَةَ ذٰلِكَ هُوَ الخُسرانُ المُبينُ

22:12
He idolizes beside God what possesses no power to harm him or benefit him; such is the real straying.
يَدعوا مِن دونِ اللَّهِ ما لا يَضُرُّهُ وَما لا يَنفَعُهُ ذٰلِكَ هُوَ الضَّلٰلُ البَعيدُ

22:13
He idolizes what is more apt to harm him than benefit him. What a miserable lord! What a miserable companion!
يَدعوا لَمَن ضَرُّهُ أَقرَبُ مِن نَفعِهِ لَبِئسَ المَولىٰ وَلَبِئسَ العَشيرُ

22:14
God admits those who believe and lead a righteous life into gardens with flowing streams. Everything is in accordance with God's will.
إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُدخِلُ الَّذينَ ءامَنوا وَعَمِلُوا الصّٰلِحٰتِ جَنّٰتٍ تَجرى مِن تَحتِهَا الأَنهٰرُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَفعَلُ ما يُريدُ

22:15
If anyone thinks that God cannot support him in this life and in the Hereafter, let him turn completely to (his Creator in) heaven, and sever (his dependence on anyone else). He will then see that this plan eliminates anything that bothers him.
مَن كانَ يَظُنُّ أَن لَن يَنصُرَهُ اللَّهُ فِى الدُّنيا وَالـٔاخِرَةِ فَليَمدُد بِسَبَبٍ إِلَى السَّماءِ ثُمَّ ليَقطَع فَليَنظُر هَل يُذهِبَنَّ كَيدُهُ ما يَغيظُ

GOD bless you.
Peace.