symbolic interpretation of the "women"

[Elke]

Salaam bros idol and ahmad,all

good to see two guys with so different views that still talk to each other nicely

I believe that both things are possible in the same time; meaning that mohamed really existed but that at the same time there always is a symbolic meaning involved. I also have no problem about moses striking/separating the red seas - god can do what he wishes but true if someone told me something like this happening today i would have difficulty believing it.

code 19 - may be it exists but people made an idol of it and sorry to touch another point not really discussed here :

a symbolic interpretation of the "women" (feminin principle) to be confined in their houses until death unless gods shows them a way out is much more acceptable to me than real confinement of women. Even though at the time of the prophet - and in some countries nowadays -  the fact to keep a woman in your house instead of throwing her out in the street could have been a protection for her. But the fact is - injustice is not accceptable to me - why is same law not applied to men - which leads me to believe - god being just - that what is actually talked about is symbolic - each one of us- man or woman - having both the feminin and the masculine principle inside...

LK

[mquran]

a symbolic interpretation of the "women" (feminin principle) to be confined in their houses until death unless gods shows them a way out is much more acceptable to me than real confinement of women. Even though at the time of the prophet - and in some countries nowadays - the fact to keep a woman in your house instead of throwing her out in the street could have been a protection for her. But the fact is - injustice is not accceptable to me - why is same law not applied to men - which leads me to believe - god being just - that what is actually talked about is symbolic - each one of us- man or woman - having both the feminin and the masculine principle inside...

Are you saying that an-nisaa is a SYMBOLIC femininity ?

[Elke]

Peace mquran, ahmed

mquran

Are you saying that an-nisaa is a SYMBOLIC femininity ?

i say exactely what i say :wink:

I believe that both things are possible in the same time; meaning that mohamed really existed but that at the same time there always is a symbolic meaning involved.

you can apply the same thing to an nissa


ahmed

"I am convinced that God rules the Earth through the laws of physics."

Yes, because he's the ONE who established these laws in the first place, but, he could also go above if he wished...

Peace, lk

[mquran]

Peace Elke,

i say exactely what i say  

Wittgenstien would love you Im sure, but I'm just a normal person seeking a normal explanation. Here's what you posted:

a symbolic interpretation of the "women" (feminin principle) to be confined in their houses until death unless gods shows them a way out is much more acceptable to me than real confinement of women

Would you mind explaining to me how you'd confine the feminine principle until God shows them a way out?

I believe that both things are possible in the same time; meaning that mohamed really existed but that at the same time there always is a symbolic meaning involved.

you can apply the same thing to an nissa

Ok, so by this principle, during the Prophets time, we actually confine the offenders to thier homes but in this day and age, we just confine thier 'feminine principle' ?

And by that logic, during the Prophets time, they actually established justice but during this day and age, we just symbolically do so (how, God only knows!)

This doesn't make sense but if you would explain how the feminine principle gets confined, im sure it would shed light on things.

[Elke]

Peace mquran,

i try to explain in short (am at work) if not i'll shout for idolfrees help :lol:

Feminin principle would be the emotion - emotional decisions, not based on logic and facts but on feelings, desires. And i insist, women and men can be prone to take such decisions... These have to be confined in order to find solutions to problems each and everybody meets in life.

And mquran, sorry but you're a man. That why you can accept the idea of confinement for women. Which woman here would accept this idea of confinement by their husband today ? At least in locations where we are independant. And i insist again - god is just - al adel - why wouldn't lewd men be confined then ?

lk

[mquran]

i try to explain in short (am at work) if not i'll shout for idolfrees help

Take your time. Im grateful for the discussion at least.

Feminin principle would be the emotion - emotional decisions, not based on logic and facts but on feelings, desires. And i insist, women and men can be prone to take such decisions... These have to be confined in order to find solutions to problems each and everybody meets in life

I see, ok. I would have to disagree because the word 'al-maut' in 4/16 refers to a physical death as far as my research goes.

And mquran, sorry but you're a man. That why you can accept the idea of confinement for women. Which woman here would accept this idea of confinement by their husband today ? At least in locations where we are independant. And i insist again - god is just - al adel - why wouldn't lewd men be confined then ?

Im sorry, but my gender has nothing to do with my understanding. If your interpretation is correct, it would stand out regardless of my gender. I also cannot accept the 'today' example because my approach to al-quraan is time-transcendant.

[Elke]

peace mquran


you wrote

I would have to disagree because the word 'al-maut' in 4/16 refers to a physical death as far as my research goes.

i see no problem there. Physical death is also the end of our chance to overcome wrong behaviour, at least at this plane of life.

my approach to al-quraan is time-transcendant.

no problem, mine is as well but i believe in ijtihad. the essence of quran is for me in the spiritual message, laws as such can evolve with the environment

lk

[mquran]

Peace Elke,

i see no problem there. Physical death is also the end of our chance to overcome wrong behaviour, at least at this plane of life.

Please look at the verse again:
If any of nisaaikum are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or God ordain for them some way.(4/15)

How does one's feminine principle become guilty of lewdness? I'm sorry but this is trying to fit square peg into a round hole. And if one's feminine principle is guilty, why does one's masculine principle get incarcerated as well ?

no problem, mine is as well but i believe in ijtihad. the essence of quran is for me in the spiritual message, laws as such can evolve with the environment

Ok. Al-quraan supports no such dichotomy, fyi. I respect your view but don't find it islamic.

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you MQ,

I dont know the true meaning of this verse yet, but I would like to think out loud in reference to your post.

If any of nisaaikum are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or God ordain for them some way.(4/15)

How does one's feminine principle become guilty of lewdness?

the masculine and feminine are the opposite sides of polarity of all things, like hot(masculine) and cold(feminine), day(masculine) and night(feminine), etc. In terms of revelation, the masculine would be the sender, the feminine would be the reciever.  So we can metaphorize this as a marriage of the sender and reciever. However, if one finds thier "receptive faculty"  guilty of lewdness, that is, accepting foolish messages other than the one they should be married to, then we should take 4 witnesses....

Let me pause for a moment and state that this number 4 must be studied more thoroughly. I "sense" it is connected to shayteen attacking from 4 positions and also to Ibrahim taking four birds, training them to answer his call in response to the God sowing him how God raises the dead.

And if one's feminine principle is guilty, why does one's masculine principle get incarcerated as well ?

The masculine principle is the part of us that we share with The God, remember he has blown HIS RUH into us. So in saying that, we can even see the correspondence to ruh(masculine) and nafs(feminine).

Regarding to confining them to houses, we have to make go back to the threads about "bayt".

In conclusion, one thing we know is that confining women and not men to houses just doesnt sound right literally, do we agree?

[Elke]

salam mquran


you're the one who sees incarceration because you have an exclusively litteral understanding. No problem for me here either. But true, i have to reflect some more on the four witnesses...

Any ideas idolfree ?

lk