Author Topic: Islam without hadith collections  (Read 587 times)

Safe_from_sweden

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Islam without hadith collections
« on: December 21, 2020, 01:06:09 PM »
Salam! What do you think Islam would look like today if there were no hadith collections?

Peace!

Anoushirvan

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Re: Islam without hadith collections
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2020, 12:16:13 AM »
Salam !

I don't think Islam would be significantly different from today if there were no hadith collection.
What makes Islam is not hadith, most Muslim people do not know hadith, they never read Bukhari and alike.
In the past, hadiths were mostly used for guiding jurisprudence (the fiqh), but if hadiths didn't exist, something else would have replaced them.

Those who extensively read hadith collections are often Salafis, because their way of life extensively relies on following accurately hadiths.
But Salafis are not the whole Islam.

Take Ibadi Islam, in Oman or Algeria, as an example: they don't use hadith from Sunni, yet they don't look so much different from their Sunni or Shia neighbors.

What shapes Islam is the feeling among Muslims that they share a common history that can be traced back through a series of narratives to the Prophet leaving in Medina.


good logic

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Re: Islam without hadith collections
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2020, 12:54:22 AM »
Peace Safe_from_sweden.
First simple universal Islam was established way before Traditional Islam and hadith and still is defined as the same one in Qoran:
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28

Basics of true Islam to GOD:
1-Belief in GOD.
2-Belief in accountability to GOD Alone-doing good deeds-
3-Belief in GOD s scripture/s-GOD s words only-

Summary,quote:
Simple Islam, which is based on Quran instead of Hadith leads to eliminating the Elders  from the religious practice and frees Traditional Muslims from the serfdom of their local Elders/past generations/history. Many of the unreasonable rules that are hanging from the wounded body of  Traditional Islam (such as Apostasy) will automatically disappear since such irrational interpretations are stemmed either from Hadith or the not-so-much-defensible history of Traditional Muslims.

The main advantage of Simple Islam is its simplicity. A simple religion (i) is less susceptible to deviation along the history, (ii) is reachable by the general public, and (iii) is less likely to be abused by the opportunists who would confuse the public and trick them into following their commands in the name of worshipping the God.

Second, with ignoring Hadith, Islam remains separated from the history of "Islam"--or in better words the history of  Traditional Muslims. It then becomes possible to firmly defend true Islam in the 21st century without needing to defend even a moment of history of  Traditional Muslims and what they did in the past: from neglecting women rights to attacking the other countries with the excuse of spreading Islam. Most of the current criticisms of Islam are actually criticisms of the way of Traditional Muslims in the past centuries up to now, and not of the axioms of Islam themselves.

Third, the Muslims practicing Simple Islam get free from unreasonable Sharia laws that originally come from Hadith and are later wrongfully attributed to Islam. For example, if not all, most of the Elders believe in Apostasy: killing the unfortunate person who converts from Traditional Islam. Nothing is more cheerful for a Muslim practicing Simple Islam than the fact that this rule as well as rules similar to it are inconsistent with Quran and have roots in nothing but the unreliable, shaky sands of Hadith.

Islam with hadith is just another man made religion like those before it.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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jkhan

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Re: Islam without hadith collections
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2020, 02:35:56 AM »
Salam! What do you think Islam would look like today if there were no hadith collections?

Peace!


People would have created something in place of Islam... That's incontrovertible.. Like Jews created Judaism.. Christians created Christianity...and Arab Ummis  created Islam.. God never mind calling the believers of Christians or Jews in their ethnicity as Christians or Jews.. But Judaism or Christianity are inventions.. God never called Judaism OR Christianity.. They all were Muslims that is to say surrenders to God alone.. Pathetic these human being lobes to fabricate..
Hadith made the religion The ISLAM which is just an Arabic word... In true meaning of Islam there were Islam among Christians Jews Sabieens etc etc when they surrendered to God alone..
God sent Messengers probably starting from Nuh ... Below is what God was repeating to all. Of them..
21:25  "And We sent not before you any messenger except that We revealed to him that, "There is no deity except Me, so worship/Serve Me.

وَمَاۤ اَرۡسَلۡنَا مِنۡ قَبۡلِكَ مِنۡ رَّسُوۡلٍ اِلَّا نُوۡحِىۡۤ اِلَيۡهِ اَنَّهٗ لَاۤ اِلٰهَ اِلَّاۤ اَنَا فَاعۡبُدُوۡنِ

If one accepts it Serve God alone that's Islam.. Surrendering to God alone is Islam..
But unfortunately this Arabic word remained untranslated and became a religion with the influence of hadith..
 
3:19 is crystal clear..

reel

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Re: Islam without hadith collections
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2020, 07:06:47 AM »
Islam would have been then an actual religion instead of far right ideology and atheism.

What we have in Quran is very much what you will find in universal/standard law books. Its just the hadiths turned them upside down.In short, Muslims will come back to sense.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Jafar

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Re: Islam without hadith collections
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2021, 04:59:15 PM »
Salam! What do you think Islam would look like today if there were no hadith collections?


Then Islam, as per your understanding on what the word Islam mean, will not exist.

I expand the question a bit.
What do you think the word islam will be understood, if there were no writing of Quran?

Wakas

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Re: Islam without hadith collections
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2021, 04:42:25 AM »
You may be interested in this quote:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htm

Quote:
According to Parwez, support for the notion that sunna is wahy can be found neither in The Quran nor in the earlier traditions. Moreover, since neither the Prophet, nor his Companions, nor the early Caliphs considered anything to be revelation except The Quran, it is evident that the elevation of sunna to this status must have been a creation of later Muslims. He also speculates about what motives might have led to the establishment of this doctrine. The problem, he argues arises from The Quran itself where some commands are explicit while others are vague. For example, a penalty for adultery is clearly defined, while no punishment is laid down for consumption of alcohol: does this mean that drinking of it is allowed? Details such as the penalty for drinking were left to the Prophet and his successors to establish as sunna. God's intent was to allow such details to be changed according to circumstance. But later Muslims were faced with a challenge from non-Muslims and from dissenters in their own community: if commands and prohibitions not found in The Quran are important, why did God not establish these details Himself? And by what authority did the Prophet enforce commands not found in The Quran? In the face of such challenges, and afraid that anarchy would result if the basis for law was undercut, the ulama (Muslim scholars) adopted the idea that sunna is wahy (divine revelation). (p54-55)
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

good logic

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Re: Islam without hadith collections
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2021, 06:26:28 AM »
I found  that it does not matter what people do with religion, Qoran has a way  of working on sincere individuals independently.
Let me elaborate on this by these few points:
1- Either one is drawn to it or the opposite.
2- Qoran interact in a strange way by keeping the student interested and curious.
3- We start to draw from it new information,understanding every time we visit the contents.
4-  It becomes the main focus with multiple benefits to the student like:
- calmness and  peace of mind when reading it.
-  Easy to memorise its verses.
- Connects with the reader/student in a deep relationship./becomes a companion.

My thoughts are that  the religion becomes irrelevant and what people do or make of it. One will want to make their own view from it regardless.
So what does Qoran say to you? Each have to answer this question to their own feeling/taste.
GOD bless.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

hawk99

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Re: Islam without hadith collections
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2021, 11:37:49 AM »
Peace,

I am better off as a former sunni than when I was a practicing sunni.
Man's opinions can bring confusion.  The book sent by Allah is the guidance
for mankind to find righteousness.  Should you drinik alcohol?  The answer
is no, bad for you.  Allah has given us a brain and we are responsible
for using it.  The Quran is the key, I am still learning it, it's wisdom, and
finding answers to everyday life.  One big help is to take the Quran seriously,
reflect, gain knowledge.  Shaytayn could not contaminate the Quran so
he uses outside sources and mistranslations

                                                                                     :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden