Author Topic: 4:101-103  (Read 6180 times)

Wakas

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4:101-103
« on: July 16, 2005, 02:27:18 PM »
Transliteration + Translation side by side

Wa-itha (and if) DaRaBtum (strike/journey) fee (in/on) al-ARDi (the earth/land) falaysa (there is not) AAaLaYkum (on you) JuNaHun (sin) an (that) taQSuRoo (you shorten/limit) mina (from) al ssalati (the bond/oration) in (if) KHiFTum (you fear) an (that) yaFTiNakumu (will harm/affliction you) allatheena (those who) KaFaRoo (conceal/reject) inna (truly) al KaFiReena (the concealers/rejecters) kanoo (are) lakum (to you) AAaDuWwan (enemy) muBYeeNan (open/manifest) [4:101]

Wa-itha (and if) kunta (thou are) feehim (among/in them) faaQAMta (thou uphold/establish/observe) lahumu (to/for them) al ssalata (the bond/oration) faltaqum (let uphold/stand/observe) TA-iFatun (party/section) minhum (from them) maAAaka (with you) walyA/KHuTHoo (and let them take) aSLiHatahum (their arms/weapons) fa-itha (then/when) SaJaDoo (acknowledged) falyakoonoo (then let them be) min (from/of) WaRA-ikum (behind/rear/back) walta/ti (and let) TA-iFatun (party/section) oAKHRa (other) lam (who not) yusalloo (bonded/orated/turned towards) falyusalloo (bond/orate/turn towards) maAAaka (with you) walyA/KHuTHoo (and let them take) HiTHRahum (their precaution) wa aslihatahum (and their arms/weapons) WaDDa (wish) allatheena (those who) kafaroo (conceal/reject) law (if) taghfuloona (you neglect) AAan aslihatikum (your arms/weapons) wa amtiAAatikum (and your baggage/goods) fayameeloona (they swoop) AAalaykum (upon you) maylatan (rush) WaHiDatan (one/single) wala (and not) JuNaHa (blame/sin) AAalaykum (upon you) in (if) kana (is/was) bikum (with you) athan (inconvenience/annoyance/harm) min (from) MaTaRin (rain) aw (or) kuntum (you/thou are) MaRDa (ill) an (that) tWDaAAoo (you put down/relinquish) aslihatakum (your arms/weapons) wa khuthoo (and/but take) HiTHRakum (their precaution) inna (truly) Allaha (The God) aAAadda (has prepared) lilkafireena (for the concealers/rejecters) AAathaban (punishment) muheenan (humiliating) [4:102]

Fa-itha (when) qadaytumu (you are done) al ssalata (the bond/oration) faothkuroo (be mindful) Allaha (The God) qiyaman (standing) wa quAAoodan (and sitting) wa AAala (and on) junoobikum (your sides) fa-itha (when) itma/nantum (relieved) faaqeemoo (uphold/establish/observe) al ssalata (the bond/oration) inna (truly) al ssalata (the bond/oration) kanat (is) AAala (on) al mumineena (the trustful/believers) kitaban (decree/law/book) mawqootan (timed/measured) [4:103]

*the root of the Arabic word is sometimes shown in capitals above, to aid further investigation if one wishes.


Translation

101. And if you journey (separate out) in the land, then there is no sin that you shorten/limit from the bond/oration, if you fear that the concealers/rejectors will harm you. The concealers/rejectors are to you a clear/open enemy.

102. And if thou are among them and uphold/establish/observe the bond/oration to/for them, then let uphold/stand/observe/establish section from them with you and let them take their weapons; when they have acknowledged then let them be of the rear; and let other section who have not bonded/orated bond/orate with you and let them take their precaution and their weapons. Those who conceal/reject wish if you neglect your weapons and goods they can swoop/ambush in one rush. There is no blame upon you if there is inconvenience/harm from rain/shower, or if you are ill, that you put down your weapons, but take precaution (if doing so). Truly, The God has prepared for the concealers/rejecters a humiliating punishment.

103. When you are done with the bond/oration, then be mindful of The God while standing, and sitting, and on your sides (i.e. all the time). Then, when you are relieved (i.e. without threat), uphold/establish/observe the bond/oration. Truly, the bond/oration is on the trustful/believers a timed decree.

Points to consider:

The slw being referenced is an act of turning/going towards.

It is no coincidence that it ends with stating slw is a timed decree, after mentioning when you are relieved (without threat) uphold slw. It is implying uphold it in the usual manner. Thus implying the slw referenced in the prior sign is out of sync, unusual, an exception etc.

If it means once prostrated then move to the rear, then this is inconsistent with the traditional prayer because it does not end with prostration. Not only that, the traditional prayer has several prostrations, so which one is it talking about?! Rather, it does not mean prostration.

It is still implying to go ahead with the slw, even if laying down your weapons, but if you do this take precaution. That means the inconvenience of rain has nothing to do with prostrating (as this article suggests), because it is still implying to go ahead with the slw! If its difficult to carry your weapons or goods due to rainfall or illness, then you can still establish/uphold/observe the slw and there is no blame upon you. Simple.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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Wakas

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4:101-103
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2005, 02:58:50 PM »
I forgot to mention the people referenced in 4:102 are definitely the mumineen and NOT the kafireen as Aidid Safar (and perhaps others suggest). This can blatantly be seen from studying the grammar.

If anyone disagrees, please bring forth the evidence.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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Ash Shuura

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4:101-103
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2005, 03:31:08 PM »
Peace Wakas,

Quote
The concealers/rejectors are to you a clear/open enemy.

102. And if thou are among them and uphold/establish/observe the bond/oration to/for them


In English the "them" is often not very explanaratory, and the object seems to be the "kaffireen". I am a little rusty and behind. How does "feehim" convince you this refers to believers. Essentially, imagine yourself standing and on your left there are the non believers and on your right the believers, so how did you conclude this was refering to believers. This is a point that most experienced scholars seem to debate.

Clarify your views please.

Peace

Wakas

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4:101-103
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2005, 04:52:33 PM »
peace be upon you Ash,

I was unaware "experienced scholars" debate this issue. I would be interested to hear the actual arguments if this is the case.

Here is my reasoning...

4:101 discusses slw for the messenger and those with him, no-one else.

Prior to 4:102, the subject of reference when using "...kum/hum" is NEVER the kafireen. It references the messenger and those with him. And this is how it continues into 4:102.

4:102 - 'min' is a partitive, so when it says 'minhum' (from them) it is talking about a section from the people referenced. Its unlikely it references two types of groups at the same time, using one "...kum/hum". Examples showing this is done in other places will have to be demonstrated otherwise.

In times of fear, upholding/establishing the slw in two groups in a rotational manner makes sense.

If you feel those referenced at the beginning of 4:102 are the KFR, then please put in KFR into the translation to see if it holds.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Ash Shuura

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4:101-103
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2005, 03:57:52 AM »
Peace Wakas,

I checked two possible references I have in Turkish, and my search yielded nothing. So, I may have been mistaken by relying on my memory. I have read a lot of commentary over time and this argument I might have recalled from Saffar then.

I struggle with the object here as the initial verse references it with an adjective as oppossed to a noun. But this must be a peculiarity in Arabic.

Thanks for the explanation

Peace

Wakas

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4:101-103
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2005, 03:52:31 PM »
peace bro,

I forgot to re-ask, did that resolve your issues with the object of reference in these signs?

Did you put KFR into 4:102 to see if it holds? Because, to me, that makes it obvious it cannot be them as the people of reference.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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Munzir

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Re: 4:101-103
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2009, 05:25:17 AM »
Peace Wakas.

I think the faction that are not doing salaat with the prophet are to bear with them the weapons, while the other faction stands to guard.

Maybe, this way the situation would be more realistic if  salaat is to be considered physical. If salaat involves kneeling down and then loweing your chin close to your body, then you can as well hold the swords,shields, lances, bows & arrows. If salaat has the steps that are being followed now, it would be rather difficult to place your face flat on the ground carrying those types of weapons, I think.

Godbless.

Tlepsh

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Re: 4:101-103
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2009, 09:28:07 PM »
Peace Wakas,

Wa-itha  kunta  feehim (4:102)

How can we conclude that ?kunta? refers to the prophet? Can?t it refer to any body?

Joe Betik

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Re: 4:101-103
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2009, 11:26:54 PM »
salamun alaykum,

perhaps you may want to consider to ponder over this:

4:101.And when you (pl.) travel about the land/are on travel, then it is no sin/not an offense that you to fall short in/limit the relationship/connection/bond if you fear that the disbelievers may subject you to temptations. Verily, the disbelievers are to you a clear/open enemy/foe/opposition.

4:102.And when you (s) are amongst them, you should uphold the relationship/connection/bond with them. Let some of them be familiar/acquainted with you, and let them ?relinquish/lay down their arms?/be at ease with you. So when they have showed their respect/reverence, they should be of your past, and let another group that have not joined/participated, to join you, and let them ?relinquish/lay down their arms?/be at ease and throw their cautions away. But those who have disbelieved wished if you (pl.) ?would neglect your arms with gratifications?/be careless/were carried away due to gratifications, since they wished for a single chance on you (pl.). And it is no sin/not an offense if you (pl.) were rained/showered by troubles/annoyance/insults or you were ill, that you ?lay down your arms? and throw your cautions away. Verily God has prepared a humiliating punishment for disbelievers.

103.   When you (pl.) have established/ratified the relationship/connection/bond, then you remember God while standing, sitting and lying down on your sides. When you are secure/safe/at ease, establish/correct/honor the relationship. Indeed relationship/connection/bond is for believers a/an appointed/fixed/limited message/document/contract/decree.

notes:

in my humble comprehension, these verses are for us - providing a guide on how to act/behave when meeting/having an encounter with strangers. since we have no knowledge whether they know, understand or respect the relationship/connection/bond (which involves the whole spectrum of all that are in relations, e.g. God & man, man & man, husband & wife, child & parent, etc.), these verses provide the way/method to establish the proper attitude on dealing with relationships. but of course, the pivotal issue is man's relationship with God, and of special note is the last sentence of 103 (that is almost the 'exit clause' - the relationship is limited to the conditions, e.g. when we are safe/secure/at ease, or when we are among believers, or when we are among disbelievers, etc.).

of 'arms' - it is for us to ponder whether do carry guns & daggers all the while & everywhere or whenever we meet people, or rather we are simply armed with a comprehension attained to us by God and the full awareness of God's presence in our dealing with people. there is no doubt that some people are armed with their prejudices, anger, jealousy, complex (inferiority or superiority), etc.

please seek for God's guidance. ask, and you will be attained to the correct/honorable comprehension. insha-Allah.

may God guide us on the straight/correct/honorable path. insha-Allah.

peace
mohammed noh
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Ibrahim-Khalil

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Re: 4:101-103
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2009, 10:36:13 AM »
These ayahas looks like the recommendations about prayer ritual in danger situations. Why change the whole meaning just to see what the person want?I like your interpretation, but answer my questions, i always think about this.