Pork is HALAL

[Noon waalqalami]

Salam

Even if you do not want to analyze in depth my assumptions (by my fault - given few arguments) you must know that I prefer the second hypothesisi made in my previous message (Fornication) ...

peace Iyyaka, (welcome) interesting view although talks about context of food not fornication, etc.

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=TEm#(6:145:11)

6:145 قل say لا not اجد I find فى in ما what اوحى inspires الى to me محرما impermissible of على on طاعم ṭāʿimin/eater ىطعمه yaṭʿamuhu/he eats it الا except ان that ىكون being مىته lifeless او or دما blood of مسفوحا poured forth of او or لحم lahma/flesh خنزىر khinzīrin/swine فانه so surely it رجس filthiness او or فسقا disobedience of اهل dedicate لغىر to other than الله the god به in/with it فمن so who اضطر forced غىر other than باغ desires ولا and not عاد reverts فان so indeed ربك lord your غفور forgiver رحىم merciful

likewise as was already explained ...

2:173, 5:3, 16:115 ولحم walahma/and flesh الخنزىر l-khinziri/the swine (cannot be an adjective)

[Mahdi Ibrahim]

Let's start at the beginning. 4 things are forbidden :

- Category 1 => Carrion and in [5:3] this category is more detailed (including the smothered animal)
- Category 2 => Blood
- Category 3 => pork meat
- Category 4 => meat dedicated to idols

Then we have one thing in common. As you mentioned all meat was allowed BEFORE the revelation of the Torah (so pork too ..).
Second verse [5:3] as a whole refers to something that relates to the flesh in the physical sense of the term (which is why I reject my third hypothesis). This is also our second common point.

not according to the Quran...

Did Allah forget to mention about "Pork"?

WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS every animal with an undivided hoof, and in respect of cattle and sheep, We made their fat haram for them, except what is attached to their backs or guts or mixed up with bone. That is how We repaid them for their insolence. And WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6:146)

• And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. Leviticus 11:7-8 ESV
• And the pig, because it parts the hoof but does not chew the cud, is unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. Deuteronomy 14:8 ESV

Accordingly

The FOOD (flesh of swine) OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK is also halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and flesh of swine), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (5:5)

Allah does not make pork haram in the previous revelations.

They make it haram and Allah says "WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible)"

Therefore:

• Show me verses that Allah make pork haram for the Jews? ELSE it is halal to eat fresh meat
• Show me where did Allah say maggoty and stinking meat urine etc haram? ELSE it is halal for the conventional muslims
  

  You are not to eat any carcass; you may give it to a temporary resident within your gates, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner. (Deuteronomy 14:21)
  
  Anyone who eats from the carcass must wash his clothes and will be unclean until evening, and anyone who picks up the carcass must wash his clothes and will be unclean until evening. (Leviticus 11:40)
  
  Say: "People of the Book (Jews, Christians and Muslims)! you have nothing to stand on until you implement the Torah and the Gospel and what has been sent down to you from your Lord." (Quran 5:68)
  

  
  Contradiction from previous books
  1. Maggoty stinking meat is both halal and haram
  2. Pork was made haram in their books
  3. Which one? " WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6:146)"
  
  From the Quran (confirming function)
  1. Pork was not made haram for the Jews, Allah speaks the truth and not the Torah/Bible
  2. Verses about Pork without consistency and self-contradicted, and against common sense
  3. No verses from the Quran make maggoty and stinking meat urine etc haram
  
  THEREFORE, pork is halal
  
  Your ruling merely Christian's doctrine adopted and practice by Muslim, Christian Indoctrination in the Quran.

Now, my arguments for saying "pork meat" = Fornication.

How does it fit into verses 2:173, 5:3, 6:145 and 16:115?



I cannot see the consistency of your argument.

[Mahdi Ibrahim]

likewise as was already explained ...

Please explain within its real context, and without the #strawman_fallacy


https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610488.msg421826#msg421826

What does it mean to believe in the Quran?

and what is the interpretation methodology approved by ALLAH in the Quran?



Who is the STRAWMAN?


______________________
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610583.0

Your interpretation methodology is Shrik.

Allah does not forgive anything being associated with Him but He forgives whoever He wills for anything other than that. (4:48)

The Arabs say, "We have iman (in the Quran)." Say: "You do not have iman (in the Quran)." (49:14)

[amin]

The larger society will decide and come to know which is good/Halal and which is not and this is really the message from Allah. If we have enough of an animal and nothing else to eat then we can try it and there will be no harm, the society will already be shifted to that. 
In tropical countries like India, we have enough healthy vegetarian items to choose and nonveg is rare and only preferred to have only in the weakend and that too Pork is not eaten by everyone and only some poor caste people prefer it as its cheaper than other meat. Also the cooking ways differ with climate as with humid areas we tend to cook the meat well to kill harmfull bacteria and add masalas for taste and prevent foul smell.

[Iyyaka]

not according to the Quran...

Allah does not make pork haram in the previous revelations.

They make it haram and Allah says "WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible)"

Therefore:

• Show me verses that Allah make pork haram for the Jews? ELSE it is halal to eat fresh meat
• Show me where did Allah say maggoty and stinking meat urine etc haram? ELSE it is halal for the conventional muslims
  Contradiction from previous books
  1. Maggoty stinking meat is both halal and haram
  2. Pork was made haram in their books
  3. Which one? " WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6:146)"
  
  From the Quran (confirming function)
  1. Pork was not made haram for the Jews, Allah speaks the truth and not the Torah/Bible
  2. Verses about Pork without consistency and self-contradicted, and against common sense
  3. No verses from the Quran make maggoty and stinking meat urine etc haram
  
  THEREFORE, pork is halal
  
  Your ruling merely Christian's doctrine adopted and practice by Muslim, Christian Indoctrination in the Quran.

How does it fit into verses 2:173, 5:3, 6:145 and 16:115?



I cannot see the consistency of your argument.

Hi Bro,
Sorry if you don't see consistency of my argument and you only focus on your arguments.
I feel i will repeat again and again Quranic argument and waste my time

So i let my message for others and it is my opinion.

God knows better and you know perhaps that certain signs have diff?rents meaning.

But it is ok to not eat bad meats or to do not fornifcation or to not follow lies => i think we are agree with these 3 guidelines and it is the most important

So peace  Bro.

[Iyyaka]

peace Iyyaka, (welcome) interesting view although talks about context of food not fornication, etc.

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=TEm#(6:145:11)

6:145 قل say لا not اجد I find فى in ما what اوحى inspires الى to me محرما impermissible of على on طاعم ṭāʿimin/eater ىطعمه yaṭʿamuhu/he eats it الا except ان that ىكون being مىته lifeless او or دما blood of مسفوحا poured forth of او or لحم lahma/flesh خنزىر khinzīrin/swine فانه so surely it رجس filthiness او or فسقا disobedience of اهل dedicate لغىر to other than الله the god به in/with it فمن so who اضطر forced غىر other than باغ desires ولا and not عاد reverts فان so indeed ربك lord your غفور forgiver رحىم merciful

likewise as was already explained ...

2:173, 5:3, 16:115 ولحم walahma/and flesh الخنزىر l-khinziri/the swine (cannot be an adjective)

Salam Bro and thank you for your welcome

For me the context is about Lham (with blood) not necessarily food.


Why God need to specifiy "Lham" with "Pork" (Yes as a name) ? Nothing is by accident in the quran. By using only the word "Porck" it will remove ANY ambiguity ? It was Always Strange for me…..
Do you have a quranic  answer or by evidence?

You can remark that God in the quran use the same argument that we can find in acts of apostes that's why i make the parallel and i think using 4 categories are not a random but a sign.
=> Quran confirms here this aspect of ancient revelation. (And sometimes not). Quran
=> There are, however, ordinances which God maintains because they are before the people of Israel (4 universal categories)

You can remark also that circumcision (as it was the main debate into this chapter of "acts of the apostles") is not in the quran too.

God wants ease for us and not difficult.

Peace be upon you bro

[Mahdi Ibrahim]

The larger society will decide and come to know which is good/Halal and which is not and this is really the message from Allah. If we have enough of an animal and nothing else to eat then we can try it and there will be no harm, the society will already be shifted to that. 
In tropical countries like India, we have enough healthy vegetarian items to choose and nonveg is rare and only preferred to have only in the weakend and that too Pork is not eaten by everyone and only some poor caste people prefer it as its cheaper than other meat. Also the cooking ways differ with climate as with humid areas we tend to cook the meat well to kill harmfull bacteria and add masalas for taste and prevent foul smell.

That does not prove what was made halal or haram by Allah. Irrelevant.

and the majority will end in Hell, certainly.

On the Day He says to Hell, "Are you full?" it will ask, "Are there no more to come?" (50:30)

Those who have iman and do right/natural actions, and how few they are! (38:24)

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610567.0

about less than 100 peoples out of almost 8 billion peoples.

[Mahdi Ibrahim]

Hi Bro,
Sorry if you don't see consistency of my argument and you only focus on your arguments.
I feel i will repeat again and again Quranic argument and waste my time

So i let my message for others and it is my opinion.

God knows better and you know perhaps that certain signs have diff�rents meaning.

But it is ok to not eat bad meats or to do not fornifcation or to not follow lies => i think we are agree with these 3 guidelines and it is the most important

So peace  Bro.

Try replacing the words (arguments) to verses  2:173, 5:3, 6:145 and 16:115 and you'll understand what I mean.

[Iyyaka]

peace Iyyaka, (welcome) interesting view although talks about context of food not fornication, etc.

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=TEm#(6:145:11)

6:145 قل say لا not اجد I find فى in ما what اوحى inspires الى to me محرما impermissible of على on طاعم ṭāʿimin/eater ىطعمه yaṭʿamuhu/he eats it الا except ان that ىكون being مىته lifeless او or دما blood of مسفوحا poured forth of او or لحم lahma/flesh خنزىر khinzīrin/swine فانه so surely it رجس filthiness او or فسقا disobedience of اهل dedicate لغىر to other than الله the god به in/with it فمن so who اضطر forced غىر other than باغ desires ولا and not عاد reverts فان so indeed ربك lord your غفور forgiver رحىم merciful

likewise as was already explained ...

2:173, 5:3, 16:115 ولحم walahma/and flesh الخنزىر l-khinziri/the swine (cannot be an adjective)

Hi again,
you d'ont need to answer my first question about why using Lahm with pork coz God uses "flesh of birds" or "flesh from the sea"...
Sorry

[amin]

That does not prove what was made halal or haram by Allah. Irrelevant.

and the majority will end in Hell, certainly.

On the Day He says to Hell, "Are you full?" it will ask, "Are there no more to come?" (50:30)

Those who have iman and do right/natural actions, and how few they are! (38:24)

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610567.0

about less than 100 peoples out of almost 8 billion peoples.

Theres Halal and Haram in each and  everything, we do Halal if our minds are pure and truthfull with his blessings.