:: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::

[mmkhan]

Peace.What I mean is not like this bro mmmkhan.

mmkhan looks like you're expert in arabic but?
Did you know if tanwin "un" is to make clear if that owner of the name is male/mudzakka or female/mussnat.

Example:
مُسلِمُ =muslimun (for male)
مُسْلِمَةٌ=muslimatun (for female)

فَاطِمَةُ=fathimatun (for female)
دَاوُدُ, يُوْسُفُ , etc

Evidence that you must see,mmkhan:

إِذْ قَالَ يُوسُفُ لِأَبِيهِ يَا أَبَتِ إِنِّي رَأَيْتُ أَحَدَ عَشَرَ كَوْكَبًا وَالشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ رَأَيْتُهُمْ لِي سَاجِدِينَ

See the word Yusuf also using dhammah so it's impossible if Yusuf is not a name.

وَإِذْ يَرْفَعُ إِبْرَاهِيمُ الْقَوَاعِدَ مِنَ الْبَيْتِ وَإِسْمَاعِيلُ رَبَّنَا تَقَبَّلْ مِنَّا ۖ إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ

Look Ibrahim's name also using dhammah too.

مَرَرْتُ بغُلاَمِ زَيْدٍ الفَاضِلِ

The word zaid is using kasrah tanwin, but Zaid is not only noun but a male which became noun.So the word Zaid is a mudzakkar name.It's strange if the word Zaid isn't a name.

Good point by brother the Chimp

Peace Earthdom,

Please read my post above yours.

I hope you're not Christian misionaries who disguised as Muslim like in another online Muslim forum did.

I have nothing to say on this except 25:4.

25:4 وَ قَالَ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡۤا اِنۡ ہٰذَاۤ اِلَّاۤ اِفۡکُۨ افۡتَرٰىہُ وَ اَعَانَہٗ عَلَیۡہِ قَوۡمٌ اٰخَرُوۡنَ ۚۛ فَقَدۡ جَآءُوۡ ظُلۡمًا وَّ زُوۡرًا
25:4 And those who disbelieve say, "This is not except a falsehood he invented, and others have helped him at it." But they have committed an injustice and a lie.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan

[The_Chimp]

Salam Mr. Kahn,

Did I talk about Arabic, really? When? Where? Why?

Yes, Read: "I am wondering how this can be solved. I never found any names in AlQuraan ending with this tanween"

This is talking about Arabic.

Do you find me talking about man-made Arabic grammar there? Please point me if you find it.

What is and isn't man-made Arabic? To this day - I am only aware of 1 Arabic. Is there an alternative? Where? So I can learn it too. Does this Arabic have different grammar rules?

Red: How? How are they dismissed, you just said I am wrong and we have to agree with you.

Blue: Please point me to them again, sorry I missed them.

No - I am not going to do that. This is plainly dishonest. If you wish to start again. Then in a separate post please state you point clearly [nothing else] then I will answer.

Wake up brother! Just don't rush... I am discussing alQuraan not man-made Arabic grammar full of errors.

The vocalize these:

ا ب ت ث ج ح خ د ذ ر ز س ش ص ض

How do you pronounce these funny looking letters? And separately could you also give 5 errors within this "man-made Arabic"?

I am not strong enough to judge and deny aayaat of alQuraan based on man-made Arabic grammar. If you can, then please do, I don't have to do anything with it.

You mean you do not know any Arabic. And this is just an excuse. Who else is claiming this? Where is your Arabic? I am willing to listen?

This is because, you are claiming to be a sunni and I am not at all interested in discussing with any sects. Because they are already set their minds, so nothing can go through their throat. I have experienced it personally many many times. Sorry to say this, but it is you who said to be a sunni about yourself and also you have shown your anger against alQuraan aloners.

I have been patient and courteous - whilst you have implied I am a kafir and whatnot . . what was it? Dumb, blind, etc. Overwhelmingly Muslims have been Sunni for the life of Islam. So it is you who is the sect.

Red: Did I say that? You see, how you are in rush and making baseless conclusions? Please scroll above and see again what I wrote. Your rush and conclusions are making your wrong, so, please be patient and seek Allah help on every step you take.

Nope, my dear Mr Khan. This is a baseless accusation. You will realise it:

"Also - not a single person, whose names you quoted above, have agreed with your position. Or jumped up and answer on your behalf."

Read this again. All those people you were thanking:

"Thanks to supportpeacenotwar, huruf, man of faith and zone for your kind words. May Allah bless you."

Did not stand by your pet theory that Muhammad is a title.

So where is this baseless conclusion that i have made?

I am happy to see that And my ultimate support is from Allah, alhamduliAllah.

Everyone claims this. A point of absolutely zero importance and value. The Almighty sustains even those who do not agree he exists!

I am surprise to know that... then what is the purpose of alQuraan? Is it just to get 10 favors for each word read? I don't think so. If you understand the meaning of kafir, then you may agree. Yes, that is because, I am kafir of your deen.

See - you are happy enough to call others "Kafir"! I doubt the almighty intended a small band of people to attain the "truth" 1,500 years after the advent of Islam. As you imply. Your religion is completely new.

Again???

Where am I talking about man-made Arabic?

So which Arabic were you talking about? And what is "Tanween"? I know what it is in er . . . man made Arabic. 

[The_Chimp]

Peace.What I mean is not like this bro mmmkhan.

mmkhan looks like you're expert in arabic but?
Did you know if tanwin "un" is to make clear if that owner of the name is male/mudzakka or female/mussnat.

Example:
مُسلِمُ =muslimun (for male)
مُسْلِمَةٌ=muslimatun (for female)

فَاطِمَةُ=fathimatun (for female)
دَاوُدُ, يُوْسُفُ , etc

Evidence that you must see,mmkhan:

إِذْ قَالَ يُوسُفُ لِأَبِيهِ يَا أَبَتِ إِنِّي رَأَيْتُ أَحَدَ عَشَرَ كَوْكَبًا وَالشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ رَأَيْتُهُمْ لِي سَاجِدِينَ

See the word Yusuf also using dhammah so it's impossible if Yusuf is not a name.

وَإِذْ يَرْفَعُ إِبْرَاهِيمُ الْقَوَاعِدَ مِنَ الْبَيْتِ وَإِسْمَاعِيلُ رَبَّنَا تَقَبَّلْ مِنَّا ۖ إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ

Look Ibrahim's name also using dhammah too.

مَرَرْتُ بغُلاَمِ زَيْدٍ الفَاضِلِ

The word zaid is using kasrah tanwin, but Zaid is not only noun but a male which became noun.So the word Zaid is a mudzakkar name.It's strange if the word Zaid isn't a name.

Good point by brother the Chimp
I hope you're not Christian misionaries who disguised as Muslim like in another online Muslim forum did.

Mr Khan has already said he is not an expert of Arabic. Man made Arabi that is! It appears he has a different version. God knows, what its rules are!

[The_Chimp]

Peace Chimp,

If this is going off topic, maybe we should leave it. I was not really brought up in a religious household. Plus, I also left Islam for a bit and then came back. But the point about already knowing morality etc is because God has imbued us with a level of understanding, that is why the Quran is also a Reminder (and a confirmation) - of what we already know (and what has gone before.)

And I am not a brother. I don't know why you are asking me 'how else do you understand the Quran?' - if you don't know Arabic, what would you do? Ask Allah swt for guidance, seek out many translations. Then you can start look at the transliteration where possible as you learn bits of terminology.

Sorry Sister!

But using translations IS relying on Arabic. Only then you are moving to second had resources. I would have thought this reliance on translations would be abhorrent. As for seeking out guidance, doesn't that lead back to Arabic. As the Quran itself says it is in Arabic. Hence, learn Arabic.

"Then you can start look at the transliteration where possible as you learn bits of terminology."

Again, this is going back to learning Arabic!



It does appear that we are not really in conflict. Knowing Arabic is essential.

[Earthdom]

Plus, I also left Islam for a bit and then came back.

I hope you don't end like this verse sister 

4:137 Those who believed, then rejected, then believed, then rejected,
then they increased in rejection; God was not to forgive them nor
to guide them to the path.

And I am not a brother. I don't know why you are asking me 'how else do you understand the Quran?' - if you don't know Arabic, what would you do? Ask Allah swt for guidance, seek out many translations. Then you can start look at the transliteration where possible as you learn bits of terminology.

As who do know nothing about arab and don't want to know about it, then I recommend you for reading only this translations:

-Free Mind Translation
-Reformist Transaltion
-http://www.sublimequran.org/
-Rashad Khalifa's or another Quranist translations

Remember only read translations by Quran aloners, because this translation is free sectarian and you dont need to worry anymore.

Islam is not about Arab language, fatwas, the more important is your faith, your heart.

2:177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and
those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of hardship and adversity and when
in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous

[supportpeacenotwar]

Peace Chimp,

Seeking out guidance could be many many different things, first is with Allah swt who can guide us on how to use our reason and logic, as well as some more 'intuitive' knowledge. Other ways could include finding out more about other people's interpretations, such as coming on here and another way could include finding out more about some of the Arabic terminology in the Quran, yes. This would also go back to the point that the Quran is for the whole of mankind... everyone. So knowledge of Arabic can help but I wouldn't call it essential.

'You alone we worship and from You alone we seek aid' - from Surah Fatiha. Whatever we find and whatever we understand of the Quran, we know that it is ultimately a journey that we constantly ask God swt for help with and that it is God swt who grants us knowledge - and no I'm not talking direct revelations.

I could go into poetic things about the language of the Quran but I don't think that's necessary and like you said, we are going off topic. We should leave it, at least on this thread.

[mmkhan]

Salam Mr. Kahn,

Yes, Read: "I am wondering how this can be solved. I never found any names in AlQuraan ending with this tanween"

This is talking about Arabic.

Salaam brother, [this is second time you wrote my name wrongly willingly or unwillingly.]

You are really funny, I am sorry to say that... but did you understand what I wrote above? Am I talking about alQuraan or man-made Arabic grammar?

What is and isn't man-made Arabic? To this day - I am only aware of 1 Arabic. Is there an alternative? Where? So I can learn it too. Does this Arabic have different grammar rules?

Don't you know of other Arabic? Sad, anyways, let me tell you, there are differences between Saudi Arabic, Syrian Arabic, Misr Arabic, Lebanon Arabic, etc. etc...

But I was talking about Arabic of alQuraan, which is different from all.

No - I am not going to do that. This is plainly dishonest. If you wish to start again. Then in a separate post please state you point clearly [nothing else] then I will answer.

Fine, I will do the same for you, inshaAllah.

The vocalize these:

ا ب ت ث ج ح خ د ذ ر ز س ش ص ض

How do you pronounce these funny looking letters? And separately could you also give 5 errors within this "man-made Arabic"?

No - I am not going to do that.

You mean you do not know any Arabic. And this is just an excuse. Who else is claiming this? Where is your Arabic? I am willing to listen?

Listen alQuraan!

I have been patient and courteous - whilst you have implied I am a kafir and whatnot . . what was it? Dumb, blind, etc. Overwhelmingly Muslims have been Sunni for the life of Islam. So it is you who is the sect.

Me, called you kafir Show me where did I call you a kafir?

Brother, please understand, if you do something like kafirs do, then surely you will fall under those aayaats that shows their behavior, so it is not me who is calling you kafir, but Allah is categorizing it. Was it not that Allah said so? Or do you think I made that aayat myself? Check, aayat no. is already given.

Nope, my dear Mr Khan. This is a baseless accusation. You will realise it:

"Also - not a single person, whose names you quoted above, have agreed with your position. Or jumped up and answer on your behalf."

Read this again. All those people you were thanking:

"Thanks to supportpeacenotwar, huruf, man of faith and zone for your kind words. May Allah bless you."

Did not stand by your pet theory that Muhammad is a title.

So where is this baseless conclusion that i have made?

See again you rush and get to conclusions... Look at the highlighted part above. Is it not a baseless accusation you made

Everyone claims this. A point of absolutely zero importance and value. The Almighty sustains even those who do not agree he exists!

Then why don't you say so brother, I would love to listen this from you.

See - you are happy enough to call others "Kafir"! I doubt the almighty intended a small band of people to attain the "truth" 1,500 years after the advent of Islam. As you imply. Your religion is completely new.

Again! Did I call you a kafir, or did I say I am happy saying that?

"small band of people"? Well tell me how many were ashab-alKahaf? If you know.

So which Arabic were you talking about? And what is "Tanween"? I know what it is in er . . . man made Arabic. 

If Arabic of alQuraan matched [lets say 50% or so] with man made Arabic, does it mean, you give credit to man-made Arabic over alQuraan? And you try to understand and correct alQuraan through man-made Arabic? Only if you understand.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan

[supportpeacenotwar]

Peace Earthdom,

Thanks for your concern, I place my trust in Allah swt and I believe the way I was guided back is almost a sign in itself. That verse you mention about leaving faith, then coming back several times, that could also be about people who call themselves Muslim but they don't really believe and don't really follow through. When I 'left' Islam, I still believed Islam had truth to it, and was a great faith, my personal story is not necessary here though. So i don't know whether technically I believed in some of the Quran and Islam even then... it was a while ago so I can't recall everything entirely but Allah swt knows best.

Yes, Islam is about your faith, intent and actions.

[zone]

Zone,

Try concentrating on your words:

"You have shown your true colors, the sunni character"

In other words - you already have prejudice against over 1 billion people!

I am sorry - but that is far worse. I have specifically been against Mr. Khan and his views. Have you bothered to read the posts? I have been quite restraint aagainst someone who call me a "Kafir".

A meaningless ideas are just that - meaningless. Ignorance is ignorance. Stupidity is stupidity. Getting basics of Arabic wrong but obstinately advocating a view built upon wrong information is all three.

And I have not proceeded to imply anyone as Kafir.



Have you been following this thread? The last thing I expect to see is making mistakes in Arabic and building arguments upon mistakes. Sorry, but have you missed all that. And are you simply trying to "abuse" me for being Sunni? That is what your comments seem to imply.



So why are you belittle me? It is clear you have not followed the thread and you are not aware of the argument so far. This is about mmKhan making blatant errors and still claiming credence for his views.

What has this got to do with:

Have the decency and the good grace to be truthful and honest and at least follow the thread, IF you are going to comment. Else do not bother, purely on the basis of bigotry [evidence read the 1st objection above] .



And quoting verses is no argument.

Peace.

When two conceptual ideas differ, they represent many differing positions, frame of references, premises, methodologies, parameters and origins of knowledge. It just prove that Quran and Hadith do not match, so same to sunnahAllah and sunnahrasul. You your way me mine.

[mmkhan]

Peace Chimp,

Seeking out guidance could be many many different things, first is with Allah swt who can guide us on how to use our reason and logic, as well as some more 'intuitive' knowledge. Other ways could include finding out more about other people's interpretations, such as coming on here and another way could include finding out more about some of the Arabic terminology in the Quran, yes. This would also go back to the point that the Quran is for the whole of mankind... everyone. So knowledge of Arabic can help but I wouldn't call it essential.

'You alone we worship and from You alone we seek aid' - from Surah Fatiha. Whatever we find and whatever we understand of the Quran, we know that it is ultimately a journey that we constantly ask God swt for help with and that it is God swt who grants us knowledge - and no I'm not talking direct revelations.

I could go into poetic things about the language of the Quran but I don't think that's necessary and like you said, we are going off topic. We should leave it, at least on this thread.

Salaam supportpeacenotwar,

Just know how to read Arabic or learning Arabic language is totally different than what you experience directly from your Lord. But unfortunately, this is really hard to explain it to others.

I agree with you


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan