Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...

[Lobster]

For those of you still confused, every word Rasul says drips with sarcasm.

[Soof]

Peace I was unsure if Rasul was sarcastic, but its obvious now.  As God says, the sick at heart will say

"what could God mean by this description?"

It serves no purpose focussing on it and it detracts attention from what the Message is really about. Peace be upon anyone who focuses on forming patterns by simply looking for them - with no previous instruction or necessity to look for them - to each their own, they'll return to God, all alone.

Peace

[Edip Yuksel]

If the Quran is God's word, and if the same Quran contains a verse "On it Nineteen" and explains the its role in powerful words: to distinguish the acknowledging people from hypocrites and ingrates, and distinguish the progressives from the regressive ones, then it is beyond me to understand those who deem it irrelevant or unimportant. Especially, after learning that the first and the most repeated verse of the Quran has exactly 19 letters and the number of chapters in the Quran 114 too is multiple of this number, and many more simple facts that can be easily verified and many complex facts that can be studied.

Just these facts alone should be sufficient for any reasonable person to stop and reflect. However, the very diverse reaction people have against this code itself is a fulfillment of the prophecy.

You cannot escape from it. In fact, 19 is stamped in your brains. Our brains work on EXACTLY on 19 Rules of Inference. The list of this 19 Rules is on the cover of America's most popular logic textbook, which I too use in my symbolic logic classes.

Whenever I challenge those who ignorantly reject and mock this great sign, by claiming that they already believe in the Quran, I learn that their faith is also based on a number. Yet, the only number that is being rejected by the very Quran: The number of people around them! They ignore the divinely designed numerical structure of the Quran, and yet they follow the crowd for their guidance.

"God has counted everything in numbers!" (72:28).

Oral debate inshallah will help those who are sincerely seeking the truth of the matter. I have no hope for those who are well described by:

7:146 I will divert from My signs those who are arrogant on earth unjustly, and if they see every sign they do not acknowledge it, and if they see the path of guidance they do not take it as a path; and if they see the path of straying, they take it as a path. That is because they have denied Our signs and were heedless of them.


Peace,
Edip

[Prissy]

"God has counted everything in numbers!" (72:28).

Everything is not restricted to counts of 19. Perhaps God should have created 19 Arabized Muslims.

7:146 I will divert from My signs those who are arrogant on earth unjustly, and if they see every sign they do not acknowledge it, and if they see the path of guidance they do not take it as a path; and if they see the path of straying, they take it as a path. That is because they have denied Our signs and were heedless of them.

Numbers are invention by man, not a sign from God.

[siki]

     It definitily made, one hell of a difference for me.


      siki

[dc2]

Salaam,
How  sad, one carries the avator code, 19 and the other the scorching moon; two brilliant minds wasting time on a debate in order to win followers. Valuable time is spent on advocating theories rather than pondering the many signs of God.

most of the posts on this forum are dedicated to debating and advocating various theories though. i thought that was the point.

[Supernaut]

I used to believe in the code 19, but I don't anymore. However, it does intrigue me and I'll believe in it again if once again I think it's real.

[Supernaut]

And I think a code in the reading would be a very powerful argument against those who think the reading was written by humans.

[farida]

most of the posts on this forum are dedicated to debating and advocating various theories though. i thought that was the point.

Salaam dc2,
This is what it says on top of this forum:  About us: a forum for monotheists, and discussion of Islam based on The Quran. As a result of a discussion you learn and contribute,  where as the debate it?s about two parties, set in their ways, not budging from their stand point. This dispute is more like two US presidential hopefuls trying to win voters.

[farida]

If the Quran is God's word, and if the same Quran contains a verse "On it Nineteen" and explains the its role in powerful words: to distinguish the acknowledging people from hypocrites and ingrates, and distinguish the progressives from the regressive ones, then it is beyond me to understand those who deem it irrelevant or unimportant. Especially, after learning that the first and the most repeated verse of the Quran has exactly 19 letters and the number of chapters in the Quran 114 too is multiple of this number, and many more simple facts that can be easily verified and many complex facts that can be studied.

Just these facts alone should be sufficient for any reasonable person to stop and reflect. However, the very diverse reaction people have against this code itself is a fulfillment of the prophecy.

You cannot escape from it. In fact, 19 is stamped in your brains. Our brains work on EXACTLY on 19 Rules of Inference. The list of this 19 Rules is on the cover of America's most popular logic textbook, which I too use in my symbolic logic classes.

Whenever I challenge those who ignorantly reject and mock this great sign, by claiming that they already believe in the Quran, I learn that their faith is also based on a number. Yet, the only number that is being rejected by the very Quran: The number of people around them! They ignore the divinely designed numerical structure of the Quran, and yet they follow the crowd for their guidance.

"God has counted everything in numbers!" (72:28).

Oral debate inshallah will help those who are sincerely seeking the truth of the matter. I have no hope for those who are well described by:

7:146 I will divert from My signs those who are arrogant on earth unjustly, and if they see every sign they do not acknowledge it, and if they see the path of guidance they do not take it as a path; and if they see the path of straying, they take it as a path. That is because they have denied Our signs and were heedless of them.


Peace,
Edip

Salaam Edip,

You have my respect as you are working to preserve the system intact and all your articles are backed by well explained verses of the Qur?an. I, being on the receiving end, expect that you would rise above this quibble about the code 19, which appears to have become the driving force, and the Qur?an has been made subservient to code 19.
I do not say the no19 has no significance; in fact I do believe in the relevance of 19; a sign, as mentioned in the Qur?an, and have also watched documentary programmes on National TV proving this code in nature and Jews too believe in it as significant sign among many. To make it a big issue above the Qur'am is not a way forward.
I do not believe in belonging to any sect which is a group who take pride in something they have that separates them from the rest.

Is it right to make it into a sect, taking pride promoting the code, rather than the message itself ?