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1
Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Sura Al Falaq
« Last post by bkanwar2 on Today at 06:03:15 AM »
Void of any sense.  I did not say مَا خَلَقَ is a possessive phrase. How you call these two words as "subject of sentence"? If Ma is negation of following verb, then what is the object of verb and who is the subject of verb?

Mazhar can we keep the discussion objective please without personal opinions and beliefs?   Are you aware that there are negative or prohibitive sentences in Classic Arabic?  Yes and no please.   If yes, is مَا خَلَقَ not one?  If not why?
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General Issues / Questions / How do I know I am on the right path?
« Last post by wiseman on Today at 05:47:59 AM »
Good Day!

My question is, when I die, and be brought to God, what will be my evidences to prove or against below,just in case if God denies:

1. Quran was the book send by God.
2. My understanding of Quran was not far off.
3. Quran was NOT the only source of guidance.

I believe and I am certain that there is a God, and God is one. It took me 10 years of research to come to that.

I started with trying prove there is no God, then trying to prove God could be more than one, at the end I have attained certainty that God is one and exits.

Then I started with trying prove Quran is wrong and Hadith is wrong.
I tried and tested some verses of the Quran to see it turns out to be true.
I tried to find evidence against some of the verses, but failed.

I realised different aims of Quran and Hadith.
Quran points to reason, finding evidence and states principles.
Quran give detailed explanations to very few matters, but mostly try to explain the governing principles.

But Hadith is different. Hadith gives too much details that you even do not need a brain to think.
And one can easily prove an Hadith is wrong or not logical or not consistent or helpful at specific situation.
Hadith gives detailed guidance to every matter, from how to wee to how to eat.
So people never have to think or reason. They just need to memorise.
So my conclusion was Quran makes you smart, and Hadith makes you stupid.
I am not against Hadith, I take it under advisement if it comes to me, but I do not go to it for advice.

I do not know if it is possible to prove every word of Quran is from God.
It is translated with so many versions, and even in Arabic one word has so many meanings.
But many meanings and different translations may not prevent or hinder anyone from learning governing principles regarding specific matters.

I believe it is possible to find God and right path without Quran, but one need to make the efforts.
People cannot use the fact he/she has not read or been aware of Quran as an evidence to deny or disbelieve in God.
Hence Quran is a blessing for people and it is advice only.

I do not think Mohammed was told what to do in every matter by God or angles.
He was just given Quran, and he had to make all the efforts to understand and guided by it.
He was not given much more than anyone of us here.
I do not think he waited until he was given wealth or wisdom or to be at the right place at the right time to do right deeds.
I do not think he spent all his time trying to fix neighbours roof or giving money to beggars.
I do not think he stopped everyone coming his way to preach and explain what he thought was the right religion.
I do not think he imposed his beliefs on anyone at all.
But he had to deliver the message, because he was chosen as messenger.
So he delivered the message.
I think he did not go house to house to preach. But people came to him seeking knowledge.
I do not think he wanted to be leader of his people. But people asked him to be their leader.
I do not think he treated someone nice to lead him into Islam. I think he treated everyone nice and equally.
I do not think he tried to change anyone's mind set to work with him.
I think he worked with anyone who was in the right mind set.
I think he was led by truth and worked with anyone who was led by truth.



Ok, please point me to something that proves conclusively, without exceptions, that Quran is from God.
So by following Quran I know and I am certain I am on the right path.
You point could be from Quran itself or any other source with rigorous reasoning.
Please save me from the miraculous mathematical code the Quran is written with.


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Peace Ju5.
Even if I take your line of reasoning ,I find NO CONTRADICTION.
You may  say I am not honest if I do not see a contradiction, so let me demonstrate to you my logic if I go with 2:34 that Iblees must have been one of the Malaika. (I must highlight was a Malaika!!!)

1-GOD is saying in 16:49 that all Malaika are obedient and non arrogant

2-Iblees is no longer a Malaika now, Qoran confirms this(One of the Jinn)

3- Obedience and non arrogance are a criteria to be a Malaika, since Iblees is not obedient and is arrogant at that moment ,then he is not a Malaika now. If he was obedient and non arrogant when he was a Malaika, then he changed(have Malaika not got free will? Or are you assuming Malaika  had no free will?)
4- Qoran is not saying to you once created Malaika ,they must stay that way(Not change to other creation)

5-Qoran is saying to you  obedience and non arrogance are the trait to be Malaika., Those who choose to disobey and be arrogant cannot be or stay Malaika. What is wrong with this?

Hence Iblees was a Malaika is irrelevant, he is no longer a Malaika ,so NO CONTRADICTION of 2:34 and 16;49 even on your line of reasoning!!!

Remember you have not brought verses to consolidate your assumptions and false knowledge of GOD s creations.

I honestly do not see a contradiction. Here is your example of before changed to:
If I ask the workers to come and they all come except John, then:
Either John was a worker but is now sacked, or he was summoned with the workers
So if John is no longer a worker it is because he did not satisfy the creteria of (whatever you thought contradicted, but it is clear it does not),
So likewise be honest with yourself  as well and ponder more what all the verses are saying.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
4
Arabic / Help with translating Arabic
« Last post by easternqibla on Today at 03:48:55 AM »
I thought I'd copy this here as well :)

Hi,

I havenít been on the forum for about 5 years now. My interest in the Quran and related things has grown, and Iíve had an article accepted for publication in the Pakistan Journal of Islamic Research (oooh! Ė and itís a proper Islamic journal, none of this Ďwestern orientalistsí stuff!).

Iím working on another article now, but have run into a little bit of a sticky issue Ė I donít know any Arabic, and Google translate is a bit limiting with traditional Arabic!

As such, is there anyone here who could help me read the tafsirs? (I am penniless and so canít afford to pay anything.) I am working on the Muqattaʿat (initial letters) of the Quran. It is on linking the letters to the bizarre hadiths about them, e.g. why is Qaf a mountain, and nun an inkwell or fish (on which the world rests!). I've used Google Translate to get a rough guide of specific passages I would like translating (Iím sure one involving a dog!), but need help. Are there any offers? I would be happy to reference you in the article.

If you are wondering about what other stuff I have written, then it can be found at
https://www.rwtheology.org
with a special page dedicated to Islam
https://www.rwtheology.org/islam.html
Iíll be putting direct links to some of the stuff in the relevant places in the forum.

Many thanks,

Richard
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General Issues / Questions / Help with translating Arabic
« Last post by easternqibla on Today at 03:43:26 AM »
Hi,

I havenít been on the forum for about 5 years now. My interest in the Quran and related things has grown, and Iíve had an article accepted for publication in the Pakistan Journal of Islamic Research (oooh! Ė and itís a proper Islamic journal, none of this Ďwestern orientalistsí stuff!).

Iím working on another article now, but have run into a little bit of a sticky issue Ė I donít know any Arabic, and Google translate is a bit limiting with traditional Arabic!

As such, is there anyone here who could help me read the tafsirs? (I am penniless and so canít afford to pay anything.) I am working on the Muqattaʿat (initial letters) of the Quran. It is on linking the letters to the bizarre hadiths about them, e.g. why is Qaf a mountain, and nun an inkwell or fish (on which the world rests!). I've used Google Translate to get a rough guide of specific passages I would like translating (Iím sure one involving a dog!), but need help. Are there any offers? I would be happy to reference you in the article.

If you are wondering about what other stuff I have written, then it can be found at
https://www.rwtheology.org
with a special page dedicated to Islam
https://www.rwtheology.org/islam.html
Iíll be putting direct links to some of the stuff in the relevant places in the forum.

Many thanks,

Richard
6
@Noon waalqalami If you add humble and obedient creatures on top of the controllers/malaika angels, the malaika still stay obedient humble and fearful.

Is that a quranist changing the meaning of the word?
this word means command,order.

There is no circumstances in 16:49

Yes circumstances read in context:

16:49 and to god yasjudu -- no choice hardwired!

2:34 us'judu to adam -- have choice not hardwired!

(yuammiru) authorize e.g. make emir
(yamuru) commanded, commissioned/entrusted with task/responsibility.

OK use "commanded being" no difference!

Again these are all separate and unrelated!

2:34 واذ wa-idh/and when (time adverb) قلنا say we of للملىكه lil'malāikati/to the controllers/angels اسجدوا us'judū لادم to adam فسجدوا fasajadū الا except ابلىس iblis ابى refused واستكبر wa-is'takbara/and was arrogant (i.e. us'judū to adam!) وكان and became من from/among الكفرىن l-kafirina/the rejecters

16:49-50 ولله and to god ىسجد yasjudu ما what فى in السموت the heavens وما and what فى in الارض the land من of دابه creature والملىكه wal-malāikatu/and the controllers/angels وهم and they (i.e. all creation!) لا not ىستكبرون yastakbirūna/arrogant being (i.e. sjudu to god!) ىخافون fearing ربهم lord theirs من from فوقهم above them وىفعلون wayafʿalūna/and fulfilling ما what ىومرون yu'marūna (i.e. sjudu to god!)

66:6 ىاىها O you الذىن the ones امنوا believes ye of قوا protect ye of انفسكم souls yours واهلىكم and family yours نارا fire of وقودها and fuel its الناس the humankind والحجاره and the stone علىها over it (i.e. abyss!) ملىكه malāikatun/controllers/angels غلاظ stern شداد severe لا not ىعصون yaʿṣūna/disobeying الله the god ما what امرهم amarahum/directive theirs وىفعلون and fulfilling ما what ىومرون yu'marūna


This thread is all over the place although thank you Ju5 for bringing these to our attention.

Peace!
 
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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Sura Al Falaq
« Last post by Mazhar on Yesterday at 11:06:50 PM »
No I don't.  Following are the reasons for it.

When  مَا is used with perfect.  It is used as negative and denies the past.  Hence, مَا خَلَقَ  is a negative or prohibitive sentence.   Therefore, it can't be a possessive phrase.  Also this will be consider subject of the whole verse/sentence.   مِن شَرِّ a prepositional phrase and the object or predicate of the verse/sentence.   

Please let me know if you need any further explanation. 

Regards,
 

Void of any sense.  I did not say مَا خَلَقَ is a possessive phrase. How you call these two words as "subject of sentence"? If Ma is negation of following verb, then what is the object of verb and who is the subject of verb?
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General Issues / Questions / Re: Question for the people with knowledge
« Last post by The Sardar on Yesterday at 10:54:05 PM »
choosing or not; they are still rebellious
But in the verses i shown does say why they were rebellious in the first place. (6:110 6:148 7:146)
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General Issues / Questions / Re: Question for the people with knowledge
« Last post by The Sardar on Yesterday at 10:19:44 PM »
So how dare you say that Iblis did'nt disobey because he was forced to? It is the same for everyone. And Allah still tells us that some  are obedient, and some are rebellious. Although he guided us or sent us astray.
Wait where did he said that? I'm trying to find it in the thread brother Wakas showed us.
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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Sura Al Falaq
« Last post by bkanwar2 on Yesterday at 03:07:48 PM »
Surah 113:2                مِن شَرِّ مَا خَلَقَ
It has never been consistent with natural disposition to be among wrongdoers, unjust, corrupt and wicked.

مِن شَرِّ مَا  : Do you agree it is a prepositional phrase coupled with possessive phrase? If so, then you will agree a prep. phrase relates to some other element in the text. Please relate it with some element.

No I don't.  Following are the reasons for it.

When  مَا is used with perfect.  It is used as negative and denies the past.  Hence, مَا خَلَقَ  is a negative or prohibitive sentence.   Therefore, it can't be a possessive phrase.  Also this will be consider subject of the whole verse/sentence.   مِن شَرِّ a prepositional phrase and the object or predicate of the verse/sentence.   

Please let me know if you need any further explanation. 

Regards,
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