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391

General Issues / Questions / Re: Basic Questions on Quranists

« on: May 24, 2011, 06:57:25 PM »

then what does a messenger bring  ? 

A messenger (who?s not a prophet)  brings only a message sometimes with sign. (for example when a messenger was sent to Thamud God gave a  camel to the messenger Sura 91: 11 -15 Not a scripture or a book.)
In Noah?s case he didn?t have a sign, he just had a clear message. Prophets bring scripture for example David was a prophet and he had the Psalms, Moses and Aaron had the Torah , Jesus had the Gospel and Muhammad had the Quran ....These men were messengers and Prophets  since they bought with them scripture.

392

General Issues / Questions / Re: Basic Questions on Quranists

« on: May 24, 2011, 03:00:39 PM »

I have been studying the submitters movement for a few years now. And I have come to the conclusion that Dr. Rashad Kahlifa was indeed a messenger of God. Here are my reasons:

-   He was solely responsible for the discovery of the 19 based mathematically code in the Quran . This discovery lead to the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed Sura?s
-   He was one of the first to publicly start the Quran Alone movement.
-   Because of the discovery of ?the Code? he was able to prove that  9:128-129 didn?t belong in the Quran.
-   If you look at Sura 3:81 and Sura 33:7 you will see quite clearly that a messenger WAS indeed suppose to come AFTER Muhammad. The Quran says that Muhammad was the last PROPHET not the last MESSENGER. 33:40 .
A prophet is one who brings a book. A messenger is one who doesn?t bring a book. For example Jonah was a messenger but he WASN?T a prophet.  Every prophet is a messenger but not every messenger is a prophet.


Now I know that some of the things that he did were contradictory of the Quran but one has to understand that he was still LEARNING the Quran. At the time of his death some of the submitters in Masjid Tucson started to use his footnotes and appendices for guidance instead of continuing his research of the Quran which he never completed.

Read this article written by Edip Yuksel : http://www.yuksel.org/e/religion/submitters.htm

And yes he did make mistakes. He himself said it many times. But one has to remember that all of the messengers in the past have made mistakes themselves. So even though Dr.Rashad Khalifa was not perfect, neither was Muhammad nor Abraham.

However in spite of the mistakes his message was crystal clear : The Quran alone is to be used as guide in Islam.


Regardless of what people think the point is that the words of a messenger doesn?t supersede the word of the Quran. So God would suffice as a witness for his Messengers.  In the end we are suppose to uphold the Quran alone. I will like to invite people to study the 19 based miracles in the Quran if they haven?t done so as yet. It is something that will blow your minds! Trust me. It will indeed increase your faith in the Quran.

393

Hadith Discussions / Re: Answering Idiotic Claims

« on: May 23, 2011, 06:56:54 PM »

People who claim to follow the Quran will never be like the shia. Ture believers don?t fabricate things to suit our own agenda. Unlike the Shia, real believers are true monotheists who follow God?s word to the letter. The Hadith and Sunna is NOT God?s word nor will it ever be God?s word.

Our differences among us (monotheists) stem from different  translations in the Quran and not MAJOR contradictions that the sunni and shia have. However even with our different interpretations at the end of the day we respect one another. Can that be done with the Sunni and Shia???

And no, the contradictions in the Hadith and Sunna are not minor. You having read the Hadith would not dear lie among people who have previously studied the Hadith and have come to the conclusion that it is a pack of nonsense.  The Quran is God?s word and guide to the world, and not Muhammad who the so called ?Muslims? have shamed and place him as some sort of man God to be followed.

6:39 Those who deny Our signs, they are deaf and dumb, in darkness. Whoever God wishes He misguides, and whoever He wishes He makes him on a straight path.

Simplicity will not work for people who don?t truly acknowledge that God alone suffices as a judge. If you want to follow blindly what your imam and hadith teachings say then do it. At the end of days we shall see who was on the right path and who wasn?t . I will follow what God says. The reason why you don?t see what we see is solely because you don?t approach the Quran with sincerity.

56:79 None can grasp it except the pure (sincere).

394

Hadith Discussions / Re: Answering Idiotic Claims

« on: May 23, 2011, 12:31:42 PM »

I will like to say to all the hadith and sunna followers that if they believe that the Rope of God (The Quran) is similar to the traditions/sayings written about Muhammad 300-400 years after his death then they should hold there tongue when they debate amongst the Christians and the Jews! The Hadith and Sunna has 10 times more contradictions than the Bible!!!!! How in all that is good can God ask his servants to follow books that have numerous contradictions??? It is like a teacher giving a student a book filled with mistakes and errors to study for a test. If the student fails who is to blame? The teacher or the student?.... Is it not the teacher?

People need to use a bit of common sense these days. The verses in the Quran attributed to Muhammad are meant for when HE WAS ALIVE! Not when he has passed away!!! Muhammad was only instructed to deliver the Quran! Not sunna and hadith! Only those who are misguided will follow tales of a mortal man who in reality made mistakes just like any ordinary man. What is so different from  the followers of sunna and hadith when compared to the Christian's who pray with  mentioning of Jesus in there prays??? Isn't Muhammad know seen like a man God amongst the so called muslims of today??? (Read Sura 80)  

No follower of sunna or hadith could ever win a argument of reason with any of those who follow the previous scriptures! How could they if they themselves follow more numerous contradictions than the Jews and Christians today? The path that God has sent for those who are sincere is straight and easy. Not filled with contradictions and mysteries! These are for people who have little understanding and who have no brains for themselves. They enjoy having tales  bottle feed to them from those who are themselves corrupt and have no understanding or logic!

You stay with your numerous contradictions and keep it to yourself.
But please remember one thing, you will NEVER find ' a way ' that is better than what God has prescribed for those who acknowledge him ALONE and those who understand.

"I do not serve what you serve,"
"Nor do you serve what I serve,"
"Nor will I serve what you serve,"
"To you is your system, and to me is mine." Sura 109:2-6


PS : Maybe you can ask Muhammad for help to.....Ooops I forgot he's dead. Common sense is not common in any generation of people.

395

Hadith Discussions / Re: Answering Idiotic Claims

« on: May 23, 2011, 12:26:55 PM »

q

396

Introduce Yourself / Re: Am I on the right path ( as you define it ) ?

« on: May 22, 2011, 09:03:46 PM »

You should never take things lightly. People who do that are like sponges. If you put a sponge into a bowl of water the sponge will take in all water.

When I was younger I was a Christian (Seventh Day Adventist). I was very inquisitive when i was young. I read a lot of religious books. By the time I was around 11 or 12 i decided that i didn't want to be an Adventist again.This came about after I had read a book that Ellen G. White wrote which had a few discrepancies that didn't resonate well with me.  For example in one of 'Ellen G. White's vision's ' she said that she 'saw Jesus with long flowing hair and cream/white skin coming down in the clouds'. I read the Bible often back then. And i knew that what she said couldn't have made any sense since in Paul's writings he said that it is a shame for a man to have long hair. And this is coming from a disciple that claimed to have seen Jesus in vision! That's when i knew that Mrs. White was talking a load of crap!

A couple of years passed by during which were very difficult since I felt the need to 'fit in with a group/sect' So I did a lot of background studies on different religious sects. Finally as God would see it fit something happened that completely changed my perspective on Christianity.

It happened around when i was 17 year's  old. The cable company placed a new channel on air called IBN (Islamic Broadcasting Network). With this channel and God's guidance a lot of the 'troubling things' that i never knew exited in Christianity were highlighted to me for the first time.

One of the main things that lead me out of Christian was the fact that the Bible had many (and I mean many contradictions.) This was something that i was never aware of. For the first time I almost felt somewhat lost.  This was because I had always believed in God and I had always hoped that there was a correct "Way" to be followed. How could God judge the world with a book with contradictions? It's like a teacher giving a textbook with mistakes for a student to past an exam. If the student fails who's the blame. Isn't it the teacher? It was then that I started studying the Quran for the first time. During that period i felt i had 'reached my group/sect' The quran was like no other book. It had scientific signs that couldn't have possibly been known to Muhammad!

It was a few weeks later that i started to study the hadiths (since it was customary among Muslims). During that period of my life (which was still in my teens) I came across another path which God had made me aware of.

One day I was surfing on the Internet for a electronic Quran when I came across one at www.submission.org . When i downloaded it and started to read it I was appalled at some of 'the corruption that was being taught' They said that the Quran alone was to be used and that there was another Messenger after Muhammad (Dr.Rashad Khalifa) ! This was something that at the time i thought had to be some sort of cult group.

After a few weeks my curiosity got the better of me so i decided to read what they had to say. At first I was skeptical but then slowly but surely i started to believe what they were saying. This at the time had mostly to do with the 19 based miracle in the Quran. At that time i was adamant that what they were saying made sense (since God said more than once that the Quran that the 'Quran is fully detailed'. The Quran should be our only source of religious guidance and NOT the hadiths which are filled with contradictions!!! It was only then that i realized that the same logic i had used for leaving christianity i DIDN"T use it when it came to the Hadiths and Sunna which had 10 tens more contradictions than the Bible!!!!

About two years passed at which i was certain that i had 'reached the understanding of what needed to be done' At last I didn't realized that i was to be guided by God yet again.

About a few days ago (and i do mean a few days ago from today) I started checking  up on sites with " Quran alone " and came across this http://www.yuksel.org/e/religion/submitters.htm

What made me believe that what was happing in Masjid Tucson was a test was becuase of the fact that the submitters in Masjid Tucson blindly believed the footnotes and appendices of Dr.Khalifa.

Let me make this very clear right now....there is no doubt in my mind that Dr Rashad Khalifa was the Messenger to come after Muhammad (read , 3:81, 33:7) The reason why i believe this is because he was one of the first who made a very clear statement that resonates with me today. (only the Quran can be used as a source of guidance) Besides that he came with a sign and this was with the unveiling of the 19 based mathematically code AND the removal of the two false verses in sura 9 ( 128 & 129) ! However what i had failed to realized and also most of the people in Masjid Tucson is that he was a man! He made mistakes just like all the Messengers in past! I was blindly studying his appendices based on HIS interpretation of the Quran and not what is necessarily factually!!!  For example if the Quran alone is to be used why do the people in Masjid Tucson pray five times a day AND in a language in which they are not familiar with? Why would God ask his servants to praise him in an language which more than half of the world do not speak? If I wanted to ask God for something why would i have to pray in Arabic? Has God made us into parrots that only mimic words but don't understand or comprehend???


Now for the first time in my life I know that I am on the 'right path'. For the first time I finally understood that God is the teacher of the Quran 55:2. Dr.Rashad Khalifa at the time was still LEARNING the Quran. His studies were never completed. God took his life early (in my view) to test those who truly believed (and understood) from those who have disbelieved.

For anyone who wishes to study the Quran remember Sura (55:2). Never take things for granted even what the admins of this site or other sites say (Read 17:36) Approach the Quran with a clear mind and in sincerity and God will open your heart into understanding it.

The lesson I learnt : Never be like a sponge! Verify things for yourself. Don't depend on other people to give you the correct answer because if a messenger of God can make mistakes so can any scholar or Einstein. GOD IS THE TEACHER OF THE QURAN!  So God will guide me and those who sincerely seek wisdom to the correct path.