Messages

Peace Naxus, All,

just wanted to say that in a way I agree with all of you. Nothing is wrong with ritual salat, reading or recitation of quran, be it at specified times or any other time. So anyone is free to do as he wishes. I also understand that many of you don't do traditionnal salat - anyway one doesn't exclude the other. I think freedom is the key - laa ikraha fideen, and the only judge is allah.

Elke

Salam Wakas, Marie, All

that's what I meant when I said that shahr has got to mean (full) MONTH, not full MOON, because then it makes sense. Twelve full MONTH in a year (+ part of a month), doesn't matter if sometimes there are 13 full MOONS. But you are right Wakas, we have to check about the definition of a year.

Elke

Peace Marie,

I also would tend to think that hilal is the beginning of a month, but I didn't really get yet the implications of your counting from hilal to hilal and the intervall would be 12 month ? Why twelve month in 2:189 ? Doesn't it just state that news moons are a timing mechanism ?

D?sol?, je ne peux pas approfondir maintenant, pas le temps de r?fl?chir, mais le ferai inchallah quand j'aurais plus de temps !

Elke

Salam Marie,

you said : (sorry, i didn't yet figure out the quote function)


I do not find any quranic argument which supports this theory. May be we are speaking about the same thing, personally, I consider the word "shahr" as a cycle between two hilal (new moon) like this:

....................Full moon...................... Full moon........................

New moon....................... New moon..................... New moon

.....................Cycle 1.............................Cycle 2.......................

One cycle = one month


Elkes answer :
Allright, then one cycle is one full month and shahr is the cycle between two "hilals" which is a full month. Which would actually mean to me that we say the same thing  

Quote Mary :
I think the existence of 13 full moons in a year is an argument which doesn't support that "shahr/month" = a full-moon cycle

Elke says :
These two things are not related in a way that one has to support the evidence of the other. I didn't mean the possibility of having 13 full moons (qamar) in a year to support the meaning of shahr being "full month" - but I understand shahr as being full month because that would make sense with the verse telling us that according to God, the count of shahr is twelve. But as you say, Allah knows best.

Elke

Salam Marie,

I follow all you say in your last post except that I don't understand the link to your first phrase. Ok for the explanations about qamar and hilal, but why couldn't shahr mean month - being full month ? Then, "the count of month according to Allah is twelve" would be correct - even though there can be 13 full moons in a year, there can only be 12 full month.
What did I miss ?
Elke

Salam Idolfree,

your interpretation of "witness" is acceptable with your view of God.

But I don't adhere to this view. I think that you merge the creator and his creation, which to me are not the same, even though I do accept the idea that in each creation there is a part of the creator, or rather a reminder of the creator.

This is a philosophical discussion and I won't be able to convince you  - just as the other way round...

Elke

Salam Idolfree,

I disagree with you saying that to witness must be to see with your own eyes.

Then what about : ashhadu an lah ilaha ilalah.

I witness that there is no  god except GOD. Here witness is used, but none sees GOD, except may be with their hearts.

What do you think ?

Elke

Salam Marie and thank you,

you're analyse of "falsayumhu" seems corrects to me, especially with the other example you gave me. So "fast" or rather "abstain it" is actually the way it should be read, which really refers rather to the month than the counted days - but still, the verse is less clear to me than others dealing with fasting.

Now, concerning "ayyam madoudat", I found another occurence in 3:24 of disbelievers thinking that they wont taste hell except "a few days / the counted days"? Even though the root word refers to counting, here "counted" seems less appropriate  as translation. May be we should search more into the use throughout quran of the term counted. Are there other, more appropriate words used to say few ?

I'll search on my own, but would very much appreciate help. Things would go much faster as right now I've got to get back to my work which I neglected a little since discovering your site !

Ok, hear from you soon inchallah.
Elke

Salam Marie and everybody else,

I?m very interested by your discussion of articles about fasting. Have been fasting for the nearly the last 20 years for a month (mostly consecutive) each year but it has always been very tough for me.

I already wondered about how I could manage Ramadan during the hot month and thought about making it up in winter?

Then I came across your site and Layth article. I?m not yet convinced about all his ideas, even though I?d like to?but still searching. My problem being, like for so many of us, my not so good Arabic?

Marie, you say that Allah always fixes the days of fasting, and for the verses you quote you are absolutely right (3 days, 3+7, 2 month). So why then did he not say directly that we shall fast for one month as he does in the other verses?
I think it also significant, that he uses the expression ?ayyam madoutat?, which actually I think cannot be the ?fixed days? ? but rather a ?few days?.

See 2:203 : Remember God for ?ayyam madoutat?, if you hurry to do two days there is no sin on you?.

God uses the expression ?ayyam madoutat?, and the expression cannot mean the fixed days in this context, but really rather a few days, because the days are not fixed ?.God leaves it to the convenience of the believer.

Also, the only times God tells us to fast long periods ? it is for killing a believer and the famous ?she became like my mother to me? for estranged wife - 2 months. The repentance for a broken oath is already only three days, fasting instead of donation during hajj 3+7=10.

I?d rather tend to think that we should fast a not specified number of days during Ramadan ? because God leaves it to our convenience to do the best we can do. He knows that for some of us fasting is easy, for others difficult.

The one question remaining for me concerning  the length of the fast is : what exactly means ?falyasumhu?. Is it 100% ?shall fast it? or could it be ?shall fast in it? which would change the sense ? And if it is ?fast it?, would it forcibly mean fast the whole of it ? Here I call on those of you, better armed in Arabic, to help.

May God guide us
Elke

Salam fellow searchers,

this is my first "contribution" and already it is not so great, because I'm unable to quote the correct sura+verse.
:oops:
But if you look for marriage in the coran index, you'll find it anyway.
It says that you can keep the engagement to the women public or private...but do'nt consumate marriage if the woman didn't finish her interim. Gods knows what you think about the women...aso.
It's placed right after a verse about marrying widows. That just to say that marriage needn't be official. Anyway, as coran always says, what is important is your rightousness and your real intentions. I understand that as having a commitment to someone and keeping to it, out of respect to yourself as well as this person. Even if you are not "officially" married, abusing the trust of this person by having intercourse with someone else, would be "adultery" or zina to me.

Elke