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Topics - AK85

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11
Questions/Comments on the Quran / [2:222]
« on: June 24, 2010, 10:23:05 PM »
Peace all


al-Baqarah (The Cow) 2:222

‏2:222 ويسألونك عن المحيض قل هو اذى فاعتزلوا النساء في المحيض ولاتقربوهن حتى يطهرن فاذا تطهرن فاتوهن من حيث امركم الله ان الله يحب التوابين ويحب المتطهرين
   
Transliteration   Wayas-aloonaka AAani almaheedi qul huwa athan faiAAtaziloo alnnisaa fee almaheedi wala taqraboohunna hatta yathurna fa-itha tatahharna fa/toohunna min haythu amarakumu Allahu inna Allaha yuhibbu alttawwabeena wayuhibbu almutatahhireena

Literal   And they ask/question you about the menstruation , say: "It is mild harm, so separate/withdraw the women in the menstruation , and do not approach them (F) until they be cleaned/purified , so if they became cleaned/purified , so come to them (F), from where/when God ordered you , that God loves/likes the repentant, and He loves/likes the pure/clean .
   
Yusuf Ali   They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution: So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. But when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by Allah. For Allah loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.

Pickthal   They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an illness, so let women alone at such times and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. Truly Allah loveth those who turn unto Him, and loveth those who have a care for cleanness.

Arberry   They will question thee concerning the monthly course. Say: 'It is hurt; so go apart from women during the monthly course, and do not approach them till they are clean. When they have cleansed themselves, then come unto them as God has commanded you.' Truly, God loves those who repent, and He loves those who cleanse themselves.

Shakir   And they ask you about menstruation. Say: It is a discomfort; therefore keep aloof from the women during the menstrual discharge and do not go near them until they have become clean; then when they have cleansed themselves, go in to them as Allah has commanded you; surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.

Sarwar   They ask you about women's menses. Tell them, "It is an ailment. Avoid having carnal relations with them until their period is over." Then you may have carnal relations with them according to the rules of God. God loves those who repent and those who purify themselves.

Khalifa   They ask you about menstruation: say, "It is harmful; you shall avoid sexual intercourse with the women during menstruation; do not approach them until they are rid of it. Once they are rid of it, you may have intercourse with them in the manner designed by GOD. GOD loves the repenters, and He loves those who are clean."

Hilali/Khan   They ask you concerning menstruation. Say: that is an Adha (a harmful thing for a husband to have a sexual intercourse with his wife while she is having her menses), therefore keep away from women during menses and go not unto them till they have purified (from menses and have taken a bath). And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah has ordained for you (go in unto them in any manner as long as it is in their vagina). Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves (by taking a bath and cleaning and washing thoroughly their private parts, bodies, for their prayers, etc.).

H/K/Saheeh   And they ask you about menstruation. Say, "It is harm, so keep away from wives during menstruation. And do not approach them until they are pure. And when they have purified themselves, then come to them from where Allah has ordained for you. Indeed, Allah loves those who are constantly repentant and loves those who purify themselves."

Malik   They ask you about menstruation. Tell them: "This is a discomfort; therefore, keep away from women (do not have sexual intercourse) during their menstrual periods and do not approach them until they are clean again. When they have cleansed themselves then you may approach them in the manner Allah has enjoined for you. Surely Allah loves those who turn to Him in repentance and keep themselves clean.[222]

QXP   They ask you about women's courses. Say, "It is an inconvenient condition. So keep away from intimacy with them during their courses. Once they are clear past it, you may approach your wives for intimate relations in the manner designed by Allah. Allah loves those who make mends and keep their minds and conduct clean."

Maulana Ali   And they ask thee about menstruation. Say: It is harmful; so keep aloof from women during menstrual discharge and go not near them until they are clean. But when they have cleansed themselves, go in to them as Allah has commanded you. Surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.

Free Minds   And they ask you about menstruation? Say: "It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed.

Qaribullah    They ask you about menstruation. Say: 'It is an injury. Stay away from women during their menstrual periods and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they have cleansed themselves, then come to them from where Allah has commanded you. Allah loves those who turn to Him in repentance and He loves those who cleanse themselves. '
   
George Sale   They will ask thee also, concerning the courses of women: Answer, they are a pollution: Therefore separate your selves from women in their courses, and go not near them, until they be cleansed. But when they are cleansed, go in unto them as God hath commanded you, for God loveth those who repent, and loveth those who are clean.

JM Rodwell   They will also question thee as to the courses of women. SAY: They are a pollution. Separate yourselves therefore from women and approach them not, until they be cleansed. But when they are cleansed, go in unto them as God hath ordained for you. Verily God
   
Asad   AND THEY will ask thee about [woman's] monthly courses. Say: "It is a vulnerable condition. Keep, therefore, aloof from women during their monthly courses, and do not draw near unto them until they are cleansed; and when they are cleansed, go in unto them as God has bidden you to do." Verily, God loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and He loves those who keep themselves pure.










Does this mean withdraw from the sexually when they are menstruating, or withdraw from them period?

I don't know yet, and it may be bad for me to say this since I don't know yet but umm...errr...I...uhh...think its...umm...good advice...if it says to withdraw from them...uh...period...when they are....uhhh...menstruating... :&

12
Questions/Comments on the Quran / Sister of Aaron
« on: June 19, 2010, 10:59:16 PM »
Transliteration   Ya okhta haroona ma kana abooki imraa saw-in wama kanat ommuki baghiyyan

Literal   You Aaron's sister, your father was not (a) human/man of bad/evil , and your mother was not an fornicatress/adulteress/prostitute.
  
Yusuf Ali   "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"

Pickthal   O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.

Arberry   Sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother a woman unchaste.'

Shakir   O sister of Haroun! your father was not a bad man, nor, was your mother an unchaste woman.

Sarwar   Aaron's sister, your father was not a bad man nor was your mother unchaste".

Khalifa   "O descendant of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste."

Hilali/Khan   "O sister (i.e. the like) of Haroon (Aaron) (not the brother of Moosa (Moses), but he was another pious man at the time of

Maryam (Mary))!
Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor your mother was an unchaste woman."

H/K/Saheeh   O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."

Malik   O sister (a woman from the noble family) of Haroon! Your father was not a bad man nor your mother an unchaste woman."[28]

QXP   "O Sister of Aaron! Your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother a loose woman, nor did she ever oppose the system."

Maulana Ali   O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother an unchaste woman!

Free Minds   "O sister of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, and your mother was never unchaste!"

Qaribullah    O sister of Aaron, your father was never an evil man, nor was your mother unchaste. '
  
George Sale   O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a bad man, neither was thy mother a harlot.

JM Rodwell   O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of wickedness, nor unchaste thy mother."
  
Asad   O sister of Aaron!u Thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother a loose woman!"


Which is the word that is translated as either sister or descendant, is it okhta?

What are members opinions of Khalifa's translations, no translation is perfect of course. I remember however that a staunchly Sunni webmaster admitted saying that Khalifa's translations are good, with one example he used being that Khalifa was one of the few people to translate correctly a verse which says "when the sky disintegrates and turns Rosy painted" and few other if any other translations says this. (http://www.answering-christianity.com/galaxy_explosion.htm) Of course for emphasis I'm not implying that Khalifa's translations are perfect, nor that I believe in Khalifa's translations or anyone's translations just because this Sunni webmaster is saying so.

 I remember in a thread someone, I think it was Pazuzu bringing up that this could not be Jesus because Maryam was not the sister of Aaron. Also someone remarked that Isa is not the translation of Jesus. So once again I return with the question, what is the word that is used to translate "sister." We have seen that consensus in translation is not always accurate, for example with the verse that apparently talks about abrogating verses. In this instance, Khalifa seems to be one of the few who translated some of that verse anyway (I can't remember if he translated naskha as abrogate or copy, but he did translate ayatun as miracles) accurately anyway. This brings to mind "if a million people believe something foolish, it does not make it any less foolish." So does it mean descendant, or sister but not literally his biological sister, or literally sister of another Aaron at the time of Maryam like Hilali/Khan suggest?

As for Jesus not meaning Isa, well I've learned actually that Jesus is a Greek corruption apparently of his name...and that his name was actually Yeshu/Yeshua which would actually apparently translate to Joshua and not Jesus. So is Isa the Arabic version of Yeshu/Yeshua?


13
North America / Mosques in Toronto
« on: June 09, 2010, 07:54:12 AM »
That are friendly towards us the community who uphold only the Qu'ran, does anyone know of them? Any in the downtown area? However any Mosques at all would be fine but it would be better if you know of and can mention one in the downtown area

14
Questions/Comments on the Quran / 2:106 clarification and questions
« on: June 06, 2010, 09:00:44 PM »
I was reading this thread: http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598548.0 and it says that nansakh used in 2:106 means copy and not abrogate. Knowing that, would this be most accurate (I understand it can never be perfect) translation of the below verse? Also the main question of this thread is my question of whether "ayatin" means verse(s)/revelation or sign/miracle. Jack says that he believes it means "sign" and not "verse."

[2:106] "We do not copy from a sign(s), or We make it forgotten (except that) We come/bring with better than it, or similar/equal/alike to it. Do you not know that God (is) on every thing powerful/capable?"

What is the consensus on this site, of those reading this thread of this word in dispute, do you believe it means sign or verse and why?

Right now I think it means sign and not verse, otherwise it would mean The God is saying that He brings something better from His original words? Isn't that technically changing/modifying His words? Even if He is improving/strengthening His words, He is still technically changing it by bringing something better, correct?

However I remember reading that Edip believes it means verse and not miracle, because his reasoning is that a miracle in context with verses, is an entire chapter, and not just a verse? And even if it meant an entire chapter (miracle in context of entire chapter/surah) The God is saying He copies/brings a better chapter (miracle of chapter/surah) and causes the other to be forgotten as a result? (equal or better than the one He is copying, however He does not change His mind, why would He bring an equal chapter, and especially bringing a better chapter would mean He is modifying/changing His words)



So does it then mean miracle/sign rather than verse? Why or why not?

Here are the translations of 2:106, where the literal translation where ayatin is being translated by some as verse/revelation, and by some as sign/miracle

Transliteration   Ma nansakh min ayatin aw nunsiha na/ti bikhayrin minha aw mithliha alam taAAlam anna Allaha AAala kulli shay-in qadeerun

Literal   We do not erase/nullify/abolish from a sign/verse/evidence , or We make it forgotten, (except that) We come/bring with better than it, or similar/equal/alike to it. Do you not know that God (is) on every thing powerful/capable ?
   
Yusuf Ali   None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

Pickthal   Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?

Arberry   And for whatever verse We abrogate or cast into oblivion, We bring a better or the like of it; knowest thou not that God is powerful over everything?

Shakir   Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

Sarwar   For whatever sign We change or eliminate or cause to recede into oblivion, We bring forth a better sign, one that is identical. Do you not know that God has power over all things?.

Khalifa   When we abrogate any miracle, or cause it to be forgotten, we produce a better miracle, or at least an equal one. Do you not recognize the fact that GOD is Omnipotent?

Hilali/Khan   Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?

H/K/Saheeh   We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

Malik   We do not abrogate any of Our verses of the Qur'an or cause it to be forgotten except that We substitute it with something better or similar; don't you know that Allah has full power over everything?[106]

QXP   We have not abrogated the old commands without replacing them with the everlasting Commands that are
either similar or better than the previous ones ((5:48), (6:116), (15:9)). Do you not know that Allah is the Appointer of due measure for all things?

Maulana Ali   Whatever message We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or one like it. Knowest thou not that Allah is Possessor of power over all things?

Free Minds   We do not duplicate a sign, or make it forgotten, unless We bring one which is like it or even greater. Did you not know that God is capable of all things?

Qaribullah    If We supersede any verse or cause it to be forgotten, We bring a better one or one similar. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things!
   
George Sale   Whatever verse we shall abrogate, or cause thee to forget, we will bring a better than it, or one like unto it. Dost thou not know that God is almighty?

JM Rodwell   Whatever verses we cancel, or cause thee to forget, we bring a better or its like. Knowest thou not that God hath power over all things?
   
Asad   Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar ones. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything?






Off topic question: Who composed the Free Mind's translation? Any links or commentary on the background of this person/persons?

15
Before I became a muslim, there were things about Shia I respected, but never said because I felt I was "aiding and comforting the enemy" (I was Sunni previously) but now that I know I'm not supposed to conceal the truth, I can speak freely.

For example, of course Sunnis follow hadith and do other bad things, but at the very least they do not invoke anyone besides God (or so they say/believe)

For example, of course Shias implore 12 infallible imams but they don't blow themselves up but they do not drive car bombs into mosques.

Also Hizb'Allah is the most restrained and patient organization from what I've seen.

I was reading about how when the Israeli army finally withdrew in 2000, Hizb'Allah instructed their troops not to take revenge upon the South Lebanese Army (mercenaries who did Israel's dirty work in Hizb'Allah territory) this honestly brought tears to my eyes.

I know the Mahdi Army did a lot of dirty things, I am familiar with their death squad activity (This seems to have been both a pre mediated policy of thinning Sunni resistance and preventing a Sunni return to power, as well as a reaction to Sunni car bombs)

However the pictures of sombre young Mahdi Army cadre carrying away injured men, women and children from car bomb attacks brought tears to my eyes regardless of what the Mahdi Army did (which I am under no illusions of)

As for Hamas

I don't know if Sheikh Ahmad Yassin and Abdel Rantissi were hadithists, but I have respect for both of them regardless. I have heard a lot of people saying that if those two were still alive, they would not be pleased with the Hamas of today.

I do however think that Hamas displayed incredible patience, before they finally routed Fatah out of the Gaza strip. For those who don't know, Hamas actually won a plurality of its votes in the Gaza Strip, and as such legally did not even have to tolerate the Fatah presence there.

These Fatah ingrates, they plotted and schemed against Hamas, set up al Qaeda'esque gangs to provoke Hamas, and even infilitrated Islamic Jihad (another organization I respect, they courageously tried on many occasions to bring peace between both Hamas and Fatah, God is well pleased with the believer who mediates between two disputing believers) specifically to shoot at Hamas in their name. Hamas can only take so much, and finally gave in and attacked them and found files upon files of detailed CIA involvement in Fatah's illegal attempt at a coup.

Which is pretty sickening if you think about it, because most mainstream media outlets portray Hamas as the one that launched a coup in Gaza...when they were simply consolidating what is rightfully theres, after a long time of patience.

However I know that the Hamas of today has done many odious things. From working with Egyptians to stop smuggling (They of course did not stop it at first, but I have heard that they recently agreed with an Egyptian request and tried to stop the smuggling, only for it to continue.) And perhaps most shocking of all, recently bulldozed some houses of Palestinians living on "government land."

There is a blog I used to visit quite a bit (I don't visit it too much anymore, although it has very valuable information and the blogger is most knowledgeable and privy to information not available to or simply ignored by western outlets...I am not a fan of some of the things he says and the way he expresses himself...he is an atheist...that is fine but he once repeated the lie that the prophet pbuh had a poet murdered...and he seems to get angry at negative western portrayals of islam, yet he never links to "acceptable" sources which detail his own critical view of islam) http://angryarab.blogspot.com

With all that being said, regardless of how I feel about his atheist views and his sometimes overly bitter speech (which I guess I can understand when I look at where he is coming from) the site is very informative, and provides me with a lot of news and information I would not get anywhere else. His atheism allows him to be objective in criticizing the actions and motivations of both Sunni and Shia regimes, actors etc. (He mercilessly derides Grand Ayatollah Sistani, always labelling him as "Not so Grand" along with posting unflattering pictures of a certain Saudi Sheikh with stained teeth to go along with the latest fatwa issued by this man, which he ridicules...such as one I'm sure some of you are familiar with, to kill those who promote the mixing of sexes)

He summarized the new Hamas as follows: Hamas combines the worst elements of Jaish al Mahdi and Hizb'Allah. They have the military performance of Jaish al Mahdi (referring to the lack of restraint and patience, this was after the first eruption that emerged into an all out violent conflict between the two which still occurs sporadically) and the political naivette of Hizb'Allah (Along with conflict, at the same time trying to find peace and understanding with Fatah, which wants nothing less than to exterminate Hamas. Fatah is nothing more than the Palestinian version of the Southern Lebanon Army, from what I've read) of course with occasional rebukes and distancing from Israeli positions, which I am sure is to save their own necks...

His negative commentary on Hizb'Allah usually has to do with their lack of concern for economic justice (he describes himself as an old school marxist/maoist one of the two I can't remember) For example he criticized their second manifesto, which to him was a cop out of supporting social and class justice in favour of repproachment with the other political parties in Lebanon (who once again, according to my reading, want nothing more than to exterminate Hizb'Allah although they smile and claim differently)

He is very critical of his country (He is Lebanese) being used as a proxy battlefield by Saudi Arabia and Iran. At the same time, his marxism shines through when he criticizes most passionately his disdain for the sectarian and uber capitalist attitudes and values upon which Lebanon is built upon. He never misses an opportunity to criticize Lebanonese (a term of his own invention) "culture", and regularly links to instances of poor Syrian workers, as well as migrant Asian workers being killed. He usually sarcastically parahprases the cause of death provided in the police reports when posting them, saying "Another Syrian worker beat himself to death, Another Sri Lankan maid jumped from a balcony"

He professes a very deep respect and admiration for George Habash.

Thoughts, Comments?

16
Introduce Yourself / what sect
« on: June 01, 2010, 05:43:40 PM »
if you belonged to a sect before you came to the Qu'ran, did you belong to?

I was...some kind of Sunni...not sure which fiqh I followed, I was more of a "I'll follow whichever teachings I agree with, regardless if my beliefs comprise those from different fiqh"

of course I was very ignorant of the Qu'ran back then.


17
Hadith Discussions / the hadith about squatting when you urinate
« on: May 29, 2010, 08:13:38 PM »
this is from hadith right? I was at a friend's house once, when I told him I needed to use the washroom he demanded that I sit down when I urinate. Of course I complied without a second thought, this was before I believed in the Qu'ran only.

However...I think all of us have noticed that when we use the washroom to uhhh do number 2 we'll notice that we urinate a lot more, than almost uncontrollably...And for the males among us, you have probably noticed you urinate more/expel it more than if you are just standing and urinating.

I think this is because the squatting/sitting motion puts pressure on your bladder and forcefully expels all the urine. As opposed to standing, where it will only come out forcefully if you've been holding it in for a long time.

I don't think this was a "divine inspiration" from God, but I think the Prophet pbuh probably said this because...you can notice this for yourself when you squat or sit to use the toilet.

The Prophet pbuh was a wise man, no Sunni or Shia will deny this. He was probably giving some people some advice, after noticing on his own that all/the majority of the urine comes out when you squat/sit and therefore it is better to squat/sit when you urinate. I am not familiar with the hadith in question, but I'm sure that they might have made it to look like something only the real muslims do/the believers do/you have to do...in order to justify other hadiths which they fabricated as something you have to follow, "because of the Prophet pbuh's divine guidance in rightfully revealing from God that it is better to sit when one pees."

If anything, I believe it was probably that the prophet pbuh even explained why he was giving this advice...but the hadith compilers deliberately left out his testimony as to why it is better to squat/sit when you urinate because they knew then it would encourage people to not just follow blindly other hadiths...

thoughts?

18
Questions/Comments on the Quran / [5:3] question
« on: May 29, 2010, 03:50:05 PM »
Transliteration   Hurrimat AAalaykumu almaytatu waalddamu walahmu alkhinzeeri wama ohilla lighayri Allahi bihi waalmunkhaniqatu waalmawqoothatu waalmutaraddiyatu waalnnateehatu wama akala alssabuAAu illa ma thakkaytum wama thubiha AAala alnnusubi waan tastaqsimoo bial-azlami thalikum fisqun alyawma ya-isa allatheena kafaroo min deenikum fala takhshawhum waikhshawni alyawma akmaltu lakum deenakum waatmamtu AAalaykum niAAmatee waradeetu lakumu al-islama deenan famani idturra fee makhmasatin ghayra mutajanifin li-ithmin fa-inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun

Literal   Forbidden on you is the animal whose death was caused by suffocation or strangulation, and the blood, and the pig's/swine's flesh/meat, and what was declared/praised the name of whom the sacrifice was made for to other than God with it, and the strangled/choked to death, and the beaten to death/dead due to sickness, and the fallen/destroyed/perished (to death), and the animal whose death was caused by another's horns , and what the beast or bird of prey ate (from), except what you slaughtered, and what was slaughtered on the slaughter places, and that you seek oath with the featherless arrows , that (is) debauchery ; today those who disbelieved despair from your religion, so do not fear them, and fear Me, today I completed for you your religion, and I completed on you My blessing , and I accepted/approved for you the Islam (as) a religion, so who was forced in hunger, not deviating from righteousness/justice to a sin/crime, so that God was/is forgiving, merciful.
   
Yusuf Ali   Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Pickthal   Forbidden unto you (for food) are carrion and blood and swineflesh, and that which hath been dedicated unto any other than Allah, and the strangled, and the dead through beating, and the dead through falling from a height, and that which hath been killed by (the goring of) horns, and the devoured of wild beasts, saving that which ye make lawful (by the death-stroke), and that which hath been immolated unto idols. And (forbidden is it) that ye swear by the divining arrows. This is an abomination. This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Arberry   Forbidden to you are carrion, blood, the flesh of swine, what has been hallowed to other than God, the beast strangled; the beast beaten down, the beast fallen to death, the beast gored, and that devoured by beasts of prey - excepting that you have sacrificed duly -- as also things sacrificed to idols, and partition by the divining arrows; that is ungodliness. Today the unbelievers have despaired of your religion; therefore fear them not, but fear you Me. Today I have perfected your religion for you, and I have completed My blessing upon you, and I have approved Islam for your religion. But whosoever is constrained in emptiness and not inclining purposely to sin -- God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.

Shakir   Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal) and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols) and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Khalifa   Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of themselves include those) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning (the eradication of) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead.Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you. If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.

Hilali/Khan   Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al-Maytatah (the dead animals - cattle-beast not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine, and the meat of that which has been slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allah, or has been slaughtered for idols, etc., or on which Allahs Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering, and that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by the goring of horns - and that which has been (partly) eaten by a wild animal - unless you are able to slaughter it (before its death) and that which is sacrificed (slaughtered) on AnNusub (stone altars). (Forbidden) also is to use arrows seeking luck or decision, (all) that is Fisqun (disobedience of Allah and sin). This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But as for him who is forced by severe hunger, with no inclination to sin (such can eat these above-mentioned meats), then surely, Allah is OftForgiving, Most Merciful.

H/K/Saheeh   Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Malik   You are forbidden to eat the meat of any animal that dies by itself (dead body), blood, the flesh of swine (pork) and that on which any name other than Allah's has been invoked; also that which is strangled to death , killed by a violent blow, killed by a headlong fall and of those beaten or gored to death; and that which has been partly eaten by a wild animal unless you are able to slaughter it before its death; also that which is sacrificed on altars or is divided by raffling of arrows. All these are sinful acts. Today the unbelievers have given up all their hope of vanquishing your religion. Have no fear of them, fear Me. Today I have perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and approved Al-Islam as a Deen (way of life for you). Anyone who is compelled by hunger to eat what is forbidden, not intending to commit sin, will find Allah Forgiving, Merciful.[3]

QXP   Forbidden for you (2:173) for dietary consumption are: Any Animal that dies of itself. Blood. The flesh of swine. And anything (not just meat) that has been dedicated to any other than Allah (such as an idol, grave or saint). Any Animal that has been strangled to death. Beaten to death. Dies by falling from height. Gored to death by horns. Animal eaten by a wild animal unless you are able to slaughter it while it is still alive. That which is sacrificed on altars (devotional stones or blocks in shrines considered sacred). Also forbidden is dividing the meat through raffling and games of chance (2:219), (5:90). This Day, the rejecting opponents have given up the hope of eradicating your DEEN, System of Life. Clear distinction in matters of the Lawful and the Unlawful draws a tangible line between their ways and your way. Fear them not but fear Me. This Day, I have perfected your DEEN for you, completed My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life. (There is no hardship in Islam (2:185)). Therefore, if one is forced by hunger to consume the Unlawful, with no intention of exceeding the limits, Allah is indeed Forgiving, Merciful.

Maulana Ali   Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal), and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall, and that killed by goring with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten -- except what you slaughter; and that which is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols), and that you seek to divide by arrows; that is a transgression. This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favour to you and chosen for you Islam as a religion. But whoever is compelled by hunger, not including wilfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, merciful.

Free Minds   Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted surrender as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Qaribullah    You are forbidden (to consume) the dead, blood and the flesh of swine; also flesh dedicated to any other than Allah, the flesh of strangled (animals) and of those beaten, that which is killed by falling, gored to death, mangled by beasts of prey, unless you find it (still alive) and slaughter it; also of animals sacrificed on stones (to idols). (You are forbidden) to seek division by the arrows, that is debauchery. Those who disbelieve have this day despaired of your religion. Do not fear them, but fear Me. This day I have perfected your religion for you and completed My favor to you. I have approved Islam to be your religion. (As for) he who does not intend to commit a sin but is constrained by hunger to eat of what is forbidden, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
   
George Sale   Ye are forbidden to eat that which dieth of it self, and blood, and swine's flesh, and that on which the name of any besides God, hath been invocated; and that which hath been strangled, or killed by a blow, or by a fall, or by the horns of another beast, and that which hath been eaten by a wild beast, except what ye shall kill your selves; and that which hath been sacrificed unto idols. It is likewise unlawful for you to make division by casting lots with arrows. This is an impiety. On this day, wo be unto those who have apostatized from their religion; therefore fear not them, but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, and have completed my mercy upon you; and I have chosen for you Islam, to be your religion. But whosoever shall be driven by necessity through hunger, to eat of what we have forbidden, not designing to sin, surely God will be indulgent and merciful unto him.

JM Rodwell   That which dieth of itself, and blood, and swine's flesh, and all that hath been sacrificed under the invocation of any other name than that of God, and the strangled, and the killed by a blow, or by a fall, or by goring, and that which hath been eaten by
   
Asad   FORBIDDEN to you is carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that over which any name other than God's has been invoked,' and the animal that has been strangled, or beaten to death, or killed by a fall, or gored to death, or savaged by a beast of prey, save that which you [yourselves] may have slaughtered while it was still alive; and [forbidden to you is] all that has been slaughtered on idolatrous altars.8 And [you are forbidden] to seek to learn through divination what the future may hold in store for you:' this is sinful conduct. Today, those who , are bent on denying the truth have lost all hope of [your ever forsaking] your religion: do not, then, hold them in awe, but stand in awe of Me! Today have I perfected your religious law for you, and have bestowed upon you the full measure of My blessings, and willed that self-surrender unto Me shall be your religion.'? As for him, however, who is driven [to what is forbidden] by dire necessity" and not by an inclination to sinning - behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.










Most of these translations list death from a "violent blow" death from being beaten to death. My question is, what is the status of animals killed with firearms/arrowheads (from my understanding the verse does not mean kill with arrows, it says clearly divide with arrows, referring to a custom of gambling away the parts of the meat that involved arrows)? Especially hunting rifles? Most hunting rifle rounds have enough power to knock an animal off its feet and I am no physicist, but when comparing the energy contained by the traveling bullet launched by these firearms to the energy probably contained by the swing of a club, rock etc. I'd say the energy contained in the bullet is much more.

Can this then be considered killing an animal with a "violent blow" or "beating" it to death, with a very powerful bullet? The only difference between a bullet from a rifle and a club is that a bullet is a projectile being launched from something, shooting a club from something in other words, making it more accurate and powerful, and as such more violent



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I've noticed from browsing some threads, that quite a few verses are mistranslated [4:34] and [2:106] are just two examples.

Can anyone recommend a hardcopy English translation of the Qu'ran that contains not as many mistranslations as are commonly propagated?

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Questions/Comments on the Quran / help finding a verse
« on: May 23, 2010, 07:49:44 PM »
I tried to use the search function but I couldn't find it, I remember someone bringing up this verse in a thread.

Anyways its a verse which ahl al hadith use to justify reliance on hadith, a verse which I believe is referring to the prophet pbuh saying "we gave you knowledge" does anyone recognize this verse? can you give me the chapter and the verse please, and perhaps even your own commentary

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