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Messages - Edip Yuksel

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661
General Issues / Questions / Re: Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
« on: October 01, 2008, 12:27:02 PM »
Quote
AYMAN: Because the 100 real verses taken out from Chapter 9 is compensated by the new 100 false verses added to chapter 11, we have the same exact Checksum. In fact, you can mess up ALL the chapters of the great reading this way and not just two chapters and in the process achieve a more symmetric, powerful and impressive Code 19 as I easily demonstrated in about 10 minutes.

EDIP: I have not yet many of the discussions on this thread, including yuors. I just noticed your assertion above. None claimed that the symetry in relation to the number of chapters with odd and even verses alone was safeguarding the verses of the chapters.

However, you missed the point. If you wished to challenge this observation, you should have tried randomly changing the numbers, not deliberately changing them. Since, code 19 of the Quran was not known before 1974, the  changes made in the number of verses by those who lived before 1974 would most likely destroy this symmetry.

Peace,
Edip

662
General Issues / Questions / Re: Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
« on: September 29, 2008, 11:44:33 PM »
AYMAN: But seriously, people forget about codes and instead read and get a life. It is called the great reading and not the great counting for a reason. It is pathetic to see people whose belief in the great reading is so low that they are more in awe about such numerology than about anything that they ever read in it.

EDIP: First, you are distorting the fact. You wish people think that we do not read and appreciate the Quran. To the contrary, we have risked our lives for the message of the Quran, the whole Quran! We appreciate every letter and word of the Quran. So, stop resorting to this cheap propaganda. Appreciation of the numerical structure and a great prophecy of the Quran does not and should not stop one from reading and following the Quran. To the contrary, such a great sign and prophecy compels us to take every letter of the Quran seriously.

Those who read the Quran will know that it mentions Nineteen in the context of its authenticity in a prophetic language. You read it but ignore it!

AYMAN: How about those facts: the number of letters in the great reading is not a multiple of 19 and the number of words in the great reading too is not a multiple of 19. In fact, I guarantee that for every 1 of the so called facts that you advertize there are 18 facts that are not multiples of 19. All you are doing is using mindless trial and error and touting successful trials while hiding failed trials. You know that what I am saying is true. If you disagree then please be honest and share your failed trials so that we can see the ratio.

EDİP: You are just making up. If you are not then tell us what are the number of letters and words in the Quran. Provide us with your evidence!

As brother Zidane eloquently put: "- The ratio of trail and errors until finding of each 19 related fact doesn't show that the pattern is false in the same way that the ratio of Thomas Edison's trial and error doesn't show that Tungsten doesn't work - it worked perfectly and was a great discovery. It is still fact that there are patterns, same as the light bulb still emits light."

The Quran starts exactly with 19 letters, which we discovered after 18 of your trials!
It has exactly 114 chapters, which we discovered after 18 of your trials!
It talks about hypocrites who cannot understand the number 19, and we learned about it after 18 of your trials!
We discovered 19 in chapter 74 after 18 of your trials!
We learned that the chapter starts with the word al-Muddatthir, that is the Hidden One, just after 18 of your trials!
We also learned that the first complete statement of the same chapter has 19 letters, just after 18 of your trials!
We further learned that the numerical values of those 19 letters equals exactly to 1974, just after 18 of your trials!
We discovered that the juxtaposition of 19 and the chapter number 74 would exactly produce 1974, the time of the discovery, again after 18 of your trials!
We also discovered that multiplying 19 by the chapter number 74 would produce 1406 and that was exactly the number of lunar years between the year of revelation and 1974, again after 18 of your trials!
We also discovered that the root of the name of the discoverer, RaSHaDa, is mentioned exactly 19 times in the Quran, again after 18 of your trials!
We also learned that out of those 19 occurrences the form RaShaD is mentioned twice and they are separated by the only vers in the Quran rejecting the claims of disbelievers regarding finality of messengership. Again, we learned this after 18 of your trials!
We have learned hundreds of signs and Quranic facts, all after 18 of your trials!....


I will not continue debating with you in detail here, since I have already exposed the problems with your argument numerous times in writing and they are posted at 19.org.

Back to the Quran being called Great Reading... You are again covering the whole truth, since the Quran has numerous attributes, one of them being ZIKR and the other being Kitabun Marqum, that is, Numerical Book.. In our upcoming oral debate, the falsehood will be exposed conclusively, by God's will. Wait, and we are too waiting. God is Sari-ul Hisab!

663
General Issues / Questions / Re: Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
« on: September 28, 2008, 01:24:53 PM »
Salaam dc2, This is what it says on top of this forum:  About us: a forum for monotheists, and discussion of Islam based on The Quran. As a result of a discussion you learn and contribute,  where as the debate it?s about two parties, set in their ways, not budging from their stand point. This dispute is more like two US presidential hopefuls trying to win voters. :peace:

Dear Farida, what about you?
What about your glass house(s)?
Or What about your iron house(s)?
Are you "set in your own ways?"

If you are "set in your own ways," then according to your own logic you are not worth listening; fix yourself first.

If you are NOT "set in your own ways," then, this debate is for you; those who do not "set in their own ways" should listen both parties who are "set in their own ways" to find out a way to settle or justify their own unsettled position.

Please before jumping on the keyboard to criticize people, think!

Peace,
Edip

664
General Issues / Questions / Re: Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
« on: September 27, 2008, 09:28:04 PM »
If the Quran is God's word, and if the same Quran contains a verse "On it Nineteen" and explains the its role in powerful words: to distinguish the acknowledging people from hypocrites and ingrates, and distinguish the progressives from the regressive ones, then it is beyond me to understand those who deem it irrelevant or unimportant. Especially, after learning that the first and the most repeated verse of the Quran has exactly 19 letters and the number of chapters in the Quran 114 too is multiple of this number, and many more simple facts that can be easily verified and many complex facts that can be studied.

Just these facts alone should be sufficient for any reasonable person to stop and reflect. However, the very diverse reaction people have against this code itself is a fulfillment of the prophecy.

You cannot escape from it. In fact, 19 is stamped in your brains. Our brains work on EXACTLY on 19 Rules of Inference. The list of this 19 Rules is on the cover of America's most popular logic textbook, which I too use in my symbolic logic classes.

Whenever I challenge those who ignorantly reject and mock this great sign, by claiming that they already believe in the Quran, I learn that their faith is also based on a number. Yet, the only number that is being rejected by the very Quran: The number of people around them! They ignore the divinely designed numerical structure of the Quran, and yet they follow the crowd for their guidance.

"God has counted everything in numbers!" (72:28).

Oral debate inshallah will help those who are sincerely seeking the truth of the matter. I have no hope for those who are well described by:

7:146 I will divert from My signs those who are arrogant on earth unjustly, and if they see every sign they do not acknowledge it, and if they see the path of guidance they do not take it as a path; and if they see the path of straying, they take it as a path. That is because they have denied Our signs and were heedless of them.


Peace,
Edip


665
General Issues / Questions / Re: Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
« on: September 27, 2008, 12:31:49 AM »
If one has a better idea than Paltalk or Inspeak, please let us know. I was not thinking of recording the debate. But, we would like to know if you have a way to record it at Paltalk or Inspeak or something comparable to those programs...

As choosing 19 for the date, it was Ayman who announced that he would be available after 18th of October. So, I did not want to waste even one day, and the first day after 18th would be 19th. Perhaps, he wanted me to skip 19?

Besides, 19th of the month is the best date to discuss 19; it is memorable.

Ayman is even more predictable than my sense of appreciating harmony: his allergy to 19! Ironically, he was the one who supported my choice by suggesting a date "after the 18th of October". ;D

Peace,
Edip

666
General Issues / Questions / Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
« on: September 25, 2008, 12:22:48 PM »
AYMAN at 19.org/forum:

Quote
"Any weekend starting from October 18th onwards should work. I believe that Johnny K mentioned something about setting something up so that we can do it via the web and it is easy for everyone to listen-in on the debate."

Then, I propose the Oral debate titled "Nineteen: a Fitna or a Sign" via either PALTALK or INSPEAK, inshallah to be held on October 19th, SUNDAY morning, 10 AM Arizona time.

After receiving your acceptance of this proposal, I will delegate some of my friends to secure a video conferencing room via either Inspeak or Paltalk. Then, we will announce the time and place of the debate through our contacts and various websites.

We also need to set up some procedural rules.

What do you think?

Peace,
Edip

667
General Issues / Questions / Re: Is Alcohol Haraam?
« on: September 24, 2008, 11:42:58 PM »
Hello, I'd like to know if alcohol is haraam. I know that there are different opinions about this among those who follow just the Quran. I'd like to read some of them please. Thanks!

If you assume that the word HARAM is the only magical word to prohibit something, then according to the Quran, idol worship is not haram, lying and cheating is not haram, either.

Let me answer the question in a style that fits the question:

Why should the consumption of alcohol be prohibited? The Quran repeatedly praises the importance of using one's intelligence and logic, and we all know that consumption of alcohol makes people sharper and smarter. Similarly, the Quran instructs us to avoid gossip, vain talk, extra marital affair, etc, and it is a well known fact that drinking alcoholic beverages makes a person avoid them. Besides, alcohol is healthy for your heart, and especially for your liver. It also reduces the risk of cancer and work related accidents. It is also documented that those who drink regularly reduces the chance of domestic abuse, divorce and traffic accidents. Furthermore, alcoholics do not start as moderate users; they start drinking it in gallons just to become alcoholics.

So my dear friend. Since the magical word HARAM is not used for alcohol, and since alcohol has great health, economic and social benefits, you should enjoy it. Cheers :yay:

Peace,
Edip

668
General Issues / Questions / This Sunday is Ramadan's first day...
« on: August 30, 2008, 12:03:54 AM »
This Sunday is Ramadan's first full day. I hope our fasting will improve our character and guide us to be more righteous and God-concious people.

Peace,
Edip

669
General Issues / Questions / Re: Should we stone A. Wallace?
« on: August 23, 2008, 07:51:35 PM »
There's a lot of reincarnation cases, i've studied this one. I'm speaking of a possibilities, not truth. So don't bother asking for proofs.

Dear Fadhl, I think there is a possibility that you are an incarnation of David Lewis. I'm speaking of a possibilities, not truth. So don't bother asking for proofs.

Peace,
Edip

670
General Issues / Questions / Re: The list that contradicts
« on: August 23, 2008, 07:44:11 PM »
Please check the Manifesto for Islamic Reform. There you will find a list of numerous hadith and sectarian fatwas based on hadith that contradict the Quran. You will also find the probable source of those contradictory hadiths.

www.islamicreform.org

Peace,
Edip


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