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Messages - you gunna eat that

#101
General Issues / Questions / Re: Is Allah All Loving?
December 16, 2009, 08:04:16 PM
Quote from: afridi220 on December 16, 2009, 07:19:21 PM
Hpw about this translation.

And fight in the Way of All?h those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, All?h likes not the transgressors


Cool...I looked at the free minds translation and saw this. Also, Muhammad Ahmed and Samira on Online Quran Project who normally give the various potential definitions of a verse said that 'liketh' could be an option.  So it would seem that it could be Allah liketh not...Then Allah's loving even sinners would be redeemed by his being The most Gracious, Most Merciful, and the Loving one as in surah 11:90 and surah 85:14.  I can not like someone, for being evil, but I could still love them.  Its funny because this reminds me of what my Uncle says about certain members of my family who enjoyed insulting other members of my family.  He would say that I don't like being around them but I love them to death.  Further, the most extreme expression of love is the all encompassing opportunity for redemption by the merciful.  Open to new thoughts as always.
Peace
#102
General Issues / Questions / Re: Is Allah All Loving?
December 16, 2009, 05:43:28 PM
Could you expand on your point?  I have very little knowledge of Arabic so I am basing my question on YA's translation that says "for Allah loveth not transgressors."  Could got not "Hub" the transgessors but still love them in your definition?
Ali
#103
General Issues / Questions / Re: Is Allah All Loving?
December 16, 2009, 04:51:12 PM
Gottcha Rev...So does God's hate of sinners make him not all loving? Since God is the greatest conceivable being, I would think that a God who loves the sinner is greater than a God who hates the sinner.  Some may say that God should not love the sinner because he/she sins, but God can still hate the sin.  Take the example of a parent whose kids are causing him/her massive pain because of a drug addiction.  The parent still loves the child but despises the drug addiction.  Maybe I am misunderstanding the Quranic doctrine.
Salaam
#104
The Nazis were uniquely anti communist and anti capitalist (which roughly amounted to left and right wing at the time) so it is quite difficult to put them as left or right on our modern spectrum.  As national socialists, they pushed forward economic regulations and social welfare programs that could be considered leftist on our modern spectrum.  On the other hand, there affirmation of certain inequalities and hawkish war attitudes could be considered right by some.  I personally think Nazis are not on the rational spectrum of ideology because they were friggin crazy.
#105
General Issues / Questions / Is Allah All Loving?
December 16, 2009, 04:35:42 PM
Salaam
I have been listening to a debate between William Lane Craig and Jamal Badawi.  An interesting argument I heard put forth by Dr. Craig was that the Islamic conception of God was deficient because in the Quran, God is not all loving.   
For example,
God does not love the al-mua'tadeen Those involved in brutal aggression.

Those who are overstepping the boundaries or limits.

2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors [la uhibb al-mua'tadeen]

Thus the argument Dr. Craig pushes is
a) The Qu'ran describes God as a 'hater' of sinners, prodigals, etc..  Thus,
    appearing not to be an all-loving entity.
b) The Christian view of God is all-loving
c) God must, by definition be all-loving
d) Ergo, the Christian version of God is superior view.

Here, I accept conclusion c.  I understand some may think b is not a valid conclusion.  Lets assume it is true though for the sake of argument.  My main issue is with point A.  Could Allah be all loving and still not love or hate many people?  Or does God hate the sin but still love the sinner?  Hopefully Quranic evidence is the basis for any view someone brings to the table. Thanks for your time.

P.S. Dr. Craig does not seem to be a Robert Spencer type polemic; he actually made a point to say that he did not mean to disrespect his Muslim audience.  He was just presenting what he thought was a logical difficulty.
#106
Peace All,

Bro Edip,
I do not normally post on the forum (though I am an avid reader), but in this case I feel I must.  I pray that you do not include any mention of Nazi in your new book title.  Nazi crimes during WWII, particularly during the Holocaust and in Russia, are such that they have many people question their own faith (i.e. myself).  To compare these folks to that would be an insult that even they do not deserve. In this situation of coming up with a book title, I think we can recall the many instances in the Quran where we are asked to "repel evil with good."  I pray that you are the bigger man when you name your book Bro Edip.  Please do not take this as an insult against yourself as I feel you did quite well in those debates.

On the otherhand, for my vote...
I like something to do with "Islamophobia" as a book title.  That or something simple like "Debates with..."

Peace