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Messages - BornAgain

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You should not generalise the whole Islamic community just because some members are not experiencing positive things from fasting. FYI, I become much more peaceful, controlled, and focused on work when I am fasting. Whether you want to believe it or not, charity increases in the month of Ramadan (my friends in Indonesia right now are collecting charity and donation won't stop flowing).

So there are always two sides to look at things. Unfortunately you only focus on the negative and dangerous things, and fail to look at positive things.

It is up to you to choose not to fast because you believe it is not mandated by the Qur'aan. But may I request that you do not try to paint negative light on others who believe and practice differently from you.

We are discussing 33:60 (Bismillah included). Use any translation, all are saying the same "women should draw their outer garments over themselves". No mention of just head or chest or hair etc. "Over themselves" It is inclusive of everything.

For me the Quran is very clear on this point.

Trust me, you are talking about 33:59, and not 33:60.

Care to check the Qur'aan before you argue in a Qur'aan only forum?

PS: Please copy and paste 33:60 to make sure that we are reading the same Qur'aan?

Hadith Discussions / Re: Questions for Hadith-Rejectors
« on: June 14, 2013, 08:07:44 AM »
Here we go again!

As Muslims, we are not to fall into the sectarians traps. They regularly come online and start the same old hide and seek game of hadeeth & sunnah stories. As Muslims, we are to stand firmly on our Islamic principles and clear cut refute their age old man made polytheistic interpolations, dictating to us that they are part of Islam. We tell them, NO! These man made additions are not part of Islam. Islam was not born with the messenger Muhammad, pbuh. Islam is the one and only religion, Allaah, swt, ordained for all humanity and it started with the very first human messenger sent by God, the Almighty. The Qur?aan considers all messengers to be Muslims, meaning, they preached and practiced Islam. Sectarianism, be Sunni, Shi?a, Christian, Jew, or whatnot, doesn?t have much to do with Islam. Islam is to worship GOD, the Almighty alone and to follow His hadith only, i.e. The Qur?aan ALONE. Mixing and or polluting it with anything else are nothing but idolatry.

For the start, we must tell them to STOP mentioning the name of the Prophet Mohammad, pbuh, alongside with GOD, the Almighty, in their SHAHAADAH/testimony of faith. If they don?t, then they?re not Muslims.
Tell them to STOP mentioning others, but Allaah?s, swt, remembrance in their SALAAH/daily contact prayer. If they don?t, then they?re not Muslims.

Tell them to STOP calling other than Allaah, swt, in their call to prayer/ATHZAN. If they don?t, then they?re not Muslims.
These are just starting points for them to repent, and then join us, as Muslims; otherwise they?ll be nothing but polytheist sectarians.



Thank you Brother :)!

Actually, my belief in Qur'aan alone is more reinforced now! I see how logical it is.

Peace be with you

Hadith Discussions / Re: Questions for Hadith-Rejectors
« on: June 14, 2013, 08:05:40 AM »
Cleanliness is a petty thing? I cant believe youre saying its not sinful to be dirty.

And since when not shaving means dirtiness?

Oh please.

And you said that Western people do not shave. I laugh. Tell me this:


Wow so Islam is all about eradicating poverty? Nothing to do with basic cleanliness?

If you have really read the Qur'aan, then it is clear that Islam is all about helping others, establishing justice. It commands cleanliness, but hey... not shaving does not equate uncleanliness.

Where in Quran does it say you can speak English?

Hence not forbidden.

I was having a go at you, since you condemned others for "following the culture of Western people" when you, right here right now, use an element of Western culture, that is English.


   not sinful to drink urine, sperm, or not wash them from your clothes?? What kind of religion you following?

Did you not read my post clearly.

I said that the Qur'aan says to consume things that are halaal and thayyib (clean). People with an ounce of common sense know that urine is unclean to be consumed.

But apparently your intellectual capacity is lacking to know that. By the way, non Muslims don't read hadiths and they have more common sense than you.

Can I ask if you personally eat donkey? Please think about what you are writing, for God's sake.

No, I don't.

For heaven's sake, tell me what is different between eating a donkey and a camel. Just because YOU don't eat it, it does not mean it is disgusting. Stop being so close-minded.

Dog is not haram? Are you Korean by any chance? Please please think twice before you write this stuff.

Should I quote you a number of Qur'aanic verses that say ONLY FOUR THINGS are haraam.

For God's sake, please read your Qur'aan before you write this stuff.

Wow, what can I say?? Man what kind of religion you following?

Wow, what can I say?? Do you really read Qur'aan and implement it? The Qur'aan says the harvest of the water is all halaal.

So what does the Quran instruct on how to slaughter fish? The Quran says mayta (dead meat) is haram. But everyone in the world who eats fish never slaughters the fish. So fish must be haram if you go by Quran alone.

As I said, there is no prescribed method of slaughter. There is only prohibition of certain methods of slaugter.

Nah fish is not haraam because Qur'aan says that harvest of the water is all halaal.

Please read your Qur'aan.

The Shiites who practice Mut'ah argue otherwise. They even say Mut'ah is allowed from Quran, they call it the Ayat of Mut'ah (Surah 4:25 Bismillah included).

The only reason we don't believe in Mut'ah is because Hadith forbids it. But Quran has never said its haram.

Whether Shi'ites argue otherwis, the point is invalid. I already put forwards how marriage prescribed in the Qur'aan already invalidates Mut'ah.

If you want to say anal sex is bad you have no choice but to accept Hadith. I hope you see now how strange Islam is if you start rejecting Hadith.

Funny, it is my personal belief and have nothing to do with hadiths.

So are you saying that some Christians who say anal sex is bad, they have no choice to accept Hadith?

And no, Islam makes much perfect sense when I reject the divinity of hadiths. I almost walked out of Islam because of Hadiths and thank God for the guidance to Qur'aan only!

No the Quran never says you can marry only four wives. It says you can marry two, three or four wives if you wish. Never says its haram to marry more than four.

And this proves how intellectually lacking you are.

By the way, no need to reply to my post because I am sure those who read your posts know that you have some massive problems. I am not gonna bother anymore to check this . Ciaaaoooo...

Hadith Discussions / Re: Questions for Hadith-Rejectors
« on: June 14, 2013, 07:50:54 AM »
15. Where in Quran does it say to bathe the dead body before offering his funeral prayer and burying him?

Maybe because we do not have to? You are already led to believe that such act is necessary (when it is not), and use this false thinking to invalidate Qur'aan-only theology.

But hey, spare a thought, why is it necessary to bathe a dead body? It will not physically clean the body, it will decompose anyway....

16. Where in Quran does it say not to talk to other people while praying Salat?

Have you heard of the ayat,

" قُلۡ إِنَّ صَلَاتِى وَنُسُكِى وَمَحۡيَاىَ وَمَمَاتِى لِلَّهِ رَبِّ ٱلۡعَـٰلَمِينَ"

That your salaat is for Allah alone?

17. Where in Quran does it say women should cover their head while praying Salat?

Because they don't have to?

You will be hard pressed to find a hadith that says women should wear a scarf whilst praying, by the way...

18. Where in Quran does it say it is haram for women to shave their head? If a Quran-only woman shaves her head will she be committing a sin according to Quran-only?

No it is not haram for women to shave. So pray tell, if a woman contracts a cancer which ultimately requires her to shave her head to do treatment, you believe she is comitting a sin?

By the way, the concept of shaved head being a shame is only contained in the Bible. It seems like you are practicing the Bible more than the Qur'aan.

19. Where in Quran does it say women cannot read Quran while they are menstruating? Where in Quran does it say men cannot read Quran when he is in state of janabah?

Because women (or anyone for that matter) can read the Qur'aan whenever.

20. Where in Quran does it say women, children, and sick Muslims do not have to attend Friday congregational prayers?

Lol I am loving it. By the way, do you know that ALL BELIEVERS (and not just men) have to perform salaatul jumu'a? Read the Qur'aan please. Oh wait, you think hadith carries more weight than the Qur'aan...

21. Where in Quran does it say to pray on a prayer mat?

Nope. From memory, Prophet Abraham actually prayed on a barren land. I'll find you the verse,

By the way, I see so many Muslims praying on green field without a prayer mat. Are you saying their prayers are invalidated?

22. Where in Quran does it say it is forbidden to pray Salat in the restroom or toilet area? Can a Quran-only person pray in the toilet area?

See reponse number 21.

23. Where in Quran does it say ablution must be performed with water?

Have you freaking read your Qur'aan? Please read 5:6 and get back to me.


Okay whatever. It is obvious that you actually have not read the Qur'aan properly, and put hadiths above it.

Get back to me when you have read the Qur'aan in its entirety.

Hadith Discussions / Re: Questions for Hadith-Rejectors
« on: June 14, 2013, 07:31:08 AM »

1. Removal of pubic hair, armpit hair, and trimming of fingernails and toenails when they become long or dirty are not mentioned in the Holy Quran. Therefore, according to Hadith rejectors, will such people who do not remove pubic hair, armpit hair, nails, etc., be considered as sinful or not? Western and non-Muslim people do not remove pubic hair/armpit hair, do Hadith rejectors follow their culture also since it is not forbidden in Quran?

No, it is not sinful. For Heaven's sake, Islam is NOT about such petty things. Islam is about submission to God, and servitude to mankind. How is removing your pubic hair going to eradicate poverty or abolish slavery?

By the way I LAUGHED when you said that Western and non-Muslim people do not remove pubic and armpit hair. Seriously, have you ever lived in a Western country? I live in a Western country, and I can say people remove pubic and armpit hair.

Hey, have you every heard of Brazilian Wax?

And what is wrong with following other cultures as long as it not in violation with the Qur'aan. Why on earth are you speaking English now, which is the language of "non-Muslim" people *roll eyes*

2. Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, stool, maniyy, madhiyy (seminal fluid), vomit, is impure. According to Hadith-rejectors will a person be sinful if he does not wash off these things from his body or clothes?

No, it is not sinful. People with sane mind, however, will clean these impure things. Qur'aan does not lay out things that are common sense.

Anyway, urine is impure, right? Then tell me the logic of the hadith that says something about drinking camel urine!

3. According to Hadith-rejectors, will a person be sinful for (God forbid) drinking these things which are not explicitly declared impure in the Quran, as this is the culture of many Westerners/non-Muslims?

Well your hadith says that it is OK to drink camel urine.

Anyway, the Qur'aan says to consume things that are "halal and thayyib", i.e. lawful and clean. Do you really need to be told that your stool is unclean? I am pretty sure a lot of people, without even reading the hadith, know that stool, vomit, urine, etc are unclean and will not eat them. Even primitive people know better, and yet you need to be told... Man, I really am worried for you...

4. According to the Quran, the meat of swine is forbidden, but nowhere in the Quran does it say that the perspiration or saliva of swine, or any other animal for that matter, is impure. If these things get onto the clothes or body of a Hadith-rejector, will he be sinful for not washing them off, or praying while traces of a pig's saliva or perspiration is on his body and/or clothes?

Only the meat is forbidden to be consumed. Nothing is said about their perspiration or saliva being sinful.

Why do you think that everything is sinful when it is not explicitly mentioned by the Qur'aan? Do you really want to make your life that much more difficult?

5. Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, dung, or seminal fluid of any animal is impure. Are these things halal for Hadith-rejectors, and will a Hadith rejector be sinful for touching, drinking, or not removing these traces from his body and clothes?

Because God thinks that His creations will have common sense to think that urine, stool and seminal fluid are not to be consumed. Jeez, some people are just exceptions...

By the way, The Qur'aan does say to eat things that are HALAAL and THAYYIB (Clean). We are given the wisdom to decide what is clean. If everything needs to be mentioned, then the Qur'aan will be endless and much thicker than "Understanding Women" guidebook.

6. Nowhere in Quran does it say donkey is haram. Is is sin to eat donkey if you follow Quran alone?

Some people eat donkey. Why on earth do you think eating donkey is haram. Why do you deny that the Qur'aan ONLY forbides you four things, namely the meat of swine, blood, dead animals and food dedicated to idols?


7. Nowhere in Quran does it say dog is haram. Is it sin to eat dog if you follow Quran alone?

Nope, it is not haraam. We may be able to argue whether it is tayyib or not.

8. Nowhere in Quran does it say insects, crabs, frogs, vermin, rats, snakes, scorpions, spiders, etc., are haram. Is it a sin to eat these things if you follow Quran alone?

See my response above.

Oh by the way, crabs are delicious.

9. According to Quran khamr (wine) is haram. But it never says that beer or other hard drinks are haram. Quran never says narcotics like marijuana, cocaine, hashish, tobacco, etc., are haram. Is it a sin to use these intoxicants according to Quran only?

Khamr does not mean wine. It means whatever clouds your judgement, intoxicants. Hence drugs fall under khamr. So all intoxicants are to be avoided.

Oh, and I'll be glad for you to tell your own mullahs to stop smoking tobacco and hashish. I will be a happy woman.

10. According to Quran, birds of prey like eagles, falcons, owls, are not declared haram. Similarly, crows and bats are not declared haram. Are they halal for Quran only followers?

See my response to question 7.

Also where does it say in Quran you can eat fish without slaughtering it (cutting the throat like how other meat is slaughtered)?

I actually question if you have read the Qur'aan.

Look, cutting the throat is NOT the MUST method of slaughter. The Qur'aan only tells us how the animals should NOT be slaughtered, not how they should be slaughtered. E.g. they should not be choked, fallen off heights, hard blow, etc. It is kinda pointless and redundant to tell us how they should not be slaughtered, if in the end, there is only one method of slaughter!

11. Where in Quran does it say Mut'ah (temporary marriage practiced by Shiites) is haram? Where in Quran does it say Nikah Tahleel is haram? Is it a sin and considered zina to practice these bizarre forms of nikah according to Quran only?

The Qur'aan says that extensive consultation needs to be carried out before moving towards a divorce. Three-month separation applies before formally getting a divorce. Also, marriage is encouraged as a way to enrich and lead one another to Paradise, not for sexual satisfaction only. These criteria are not fulfilled in Mut'ah.

Use some thinking please.

12. Where in Quran does it say anal intercourse with your wife is haram? Do Quran only practice anal intercourse with their wife since Quran never says it is haram?

It is a grey issue but I strongly believe that anal intercourse is discouraged, because sexual intercourse is intended to bring forth offspring(s) and give pleasure towards both parties. But some people may disagree here.

13. Where in Quran does it say having five, six, seven or unlimited number of wives is haram? Quran gives permission for up to four wives, but never says five, six, seven, etc., number of wives is forbidden.

Are you seriously dyslexic? If someone tells you to marry ONLY up to four, it means you are not allowed to go beyond that.

I really question your intellectual capacity now...

Anyway... I should not bother because your questions are ridiculous :S

Sura 33:60?   

33:60 (Picktall) If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. -   

He meant 33:59. The verse about jilbab.

I am a Muslim who follows Hadith. But the point is I have quoted the Holy Quran which is commanding women to cover their whole body.

Did you by any chance read the Qur'aan translated by Hilali and Khan where they inserted so many brackets of interpretation?

33:59 does not say you need to cover from head to toe.


If the men would actually follow the guidance of the Quran, would you still feel like you needed to be protected?

If men would follow the guidance of the Qur'aan, well there will be world peace, there will be no hunger, there will be no poverty, and the list goes on.

The cold truth is, Brother, mankind is born weak. There will always be temptation. To be perfectly honest, I do not wear a headscarf because I live in a Western country where it is not reaallllyyyy that hard to achieve modesty. My "hijab" will be modest dressing and lowering my gaze if I catch (once in a blue moon) a man checking me out. I will try to cover, in such a way I can look beautiful without being sexually attractive, if you know what I mean. I will avoid mini skirt and low-cut top because it will increase the risk of harrassment. If I go to the more conservative country, then I will cover more and wear a headscarf if that is what is considered modest in that society.

Every gender has their own responsibility. While a man is responsible to control his desire, a woman is also responsible to maintain a modest attire. It goes both ways, and I really disagree when people, "women should be able to look around naked bla bla bla".

If you live in a muslim country, then why do feel like you need to be identified as a muslim? Shouldnt the hijab only be worn in places where there is a necessity to show you are a muslim?

Well I live in a non-Muslim country so I do feel the yearning to be identified as a Muslim. Though I don't do it through wearing a headscarf, but through my action (hopefully). That being said, when I was travelling in Middle East, had I not worn the scarf, the locals would think I was a non-Muslim tourist because of my facial feature. So it was kinda nice to have them greet me with assalaamu'alaikum when they saw me with a headscarf ;).

A headscarf is just a piece of clothing, I don't know why people make a good deal out of it. For heaven's sake, wearing it is not a mockery or being oppressed. Geez, some people really love mocking something that is different to them/what they practice.

Off-Topic / Re: The real face of Israel - What you need to know
« on: June 14, 2013, 05:54:25 AM »

I completely agree. I've known many people who just ignore what happens to the Iraqis or Afghans or others (they were the main ones recently) because they are a different skin colour, Muslim, and/or differently nationality. It was actually really upsetting at the time when the wars started and especially when the Abu Ghraib situation first happened and as I was younger I'd never seen that kind of sheer evil and torture before. They were so cold hearted both the torturers and the people who just looked at it like ''..and?''.  Not ignoring and empathising/sympathising with others would go for whether someone is Muslim or not, from the opposite side of the world or not. It's like it goes against our very humanity when we ignore them because they're ''different'' in skin colour, nationality etc

Salaam supportpeacenotwar,

I thank you for your post. I want to add further to this issue that we are currently facing.

Often times, the media deliberately shapes how we view the world affairs. There is a lot of propaganda being rolled out, especially when the political climate is unfriendly. In the Western world, we are constantly hammered with the images of "angry Muslims all over the world". This portrayal has led many people to be apathetic towards the Muslims, and not share any sentiment should misfortunes fall upon them. Before the war in Afghanistan, we were bombarded with images of cruelty committed by the Taliban, and we were led to believe that most Afghans are as bad as the Taliban members (mind you, the Afghans were the oppressed ones). Hence when the war in Afghanistan actually started, not many people were outraged because subconsciounsly they were brainwashed, and felt no sympathy because "Oh well, they are the bad people. They deserve it." Same propaganda, and same result with the war in Iraq.

At what cost? Millions and millions people died in these wars. Same propaganda tricks are being used on Iran and Syria, to lead the public think that it's okay to militarily intervene in these countries. "Because they are bad", you see.

Ask yourself. Why is there so much more outrage over the recent slaughter on the British soldier, than the ongoing slaughters of innocent Afghans and Iraqis. That is because the public has been de-sensitised when it concerns the Muslims. Muslims are bad, hence many do not feel anything when millions of them are slaughtered. Subconsciously they think, "It's okay, they are bad people"

Same crap is happening with the Palestinians. Unfortunately Hamas has been portrayed as a representative of all Palestinians. All Palestinians are seen as violent terrorists, when most of them are just hopeless, unable to do anything when their homes are destroyed.

I stand against Israel for the aggression it has committed, as much as I stand against all dictatorship in the world (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and the list can go on). Who cares if the state is "Jewish", "Islamic" or "Secular". Oppression is oppression no matter how you want to sugarcoat it.

And please, Israel is not democratic. If it is really democratic, then why on earth has it build "Jewish only" car parks, roads, etc. It is pretty much the same crap as South Africa which segregates the white and the black.

Israel should stop calling itself democratic because it is not.

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