Messages

Salam,

I'm having some trouble understanding the initiation of evil. If all comes from God, does that mean evil also comes from god? Did God create Evil?

I have heard the argument that Satan used to be an Angel, and then he turned "evil." What caused Satan to do this? Satan may tempt all of us, and we may "sin." But how did satan manage such a sin? Who tempted satan?

Peace to all,

Can you all give me advice on the best way to learn arabic? I can already read. But I want to be able to understand and speak. I want to learn both classical quranic arabic & also everyday arabic. I have been using rosetta stone and although It's good at helping me remember, I'm learning what is seemingly useless words with too much repetition and it is taking way too long.  I know I can learn at a much faster rate, but I'm not sure where to go about finding the resources. Should I try to learn native arabic first before I start to really learn quranic arabic? does it really matter? Any suggestions, ideas, weblinks is super appreciated. Thank you all.

[O tribes of Jinn and humans, if you can penetrate the outer limits of the heavens and the Earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without authority.There will be sent against both of you projectiles of fire and copper, and you cannot win. 55:33,35]

Peace,

I am here with an open question. Read the following verse,

   O tribes of Jinn and humans, if you can penetrate the outer limits of the heavens and the Earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without authority.

There will be sent against both of you projectiles of fire and copper, and you cannot win.  55:33,35

How do you match this with current scientific knowledge, it will take billions of years moving at the speed of light just to get there!!! We will die before getting out of the milky way galaxy!! God won't have to send any projectiles, just sit back and watch us die. But if you look at my avatar, it makes good sense.

Anyone with an opposing opinion.

This sounds pretty reasonable. good observation.

Wow sister Waqiah, thanks for pointing this out. Well said. There is no excuse for tricking others into believing any ideology. I just foresaw the impact of them discovering her trickery.

salam,

What ideology are you reffering to? I'm not propogating "God Alone" stance. i'm simply encouraging the reading of the quran so they can at least know what it is they claim to uphold. Truth wins out. No one has to convince anyone of anything. this would be the worst approach. I'm hoping by reading the quran, they will perhaps realize a few discrepency between their current stance vs. the quranic stance, and start researching. If you or anyone has a better idea, You will find me patience and sincere. Let's hear it.

[O you who believe, be aware of God and speak straight/true words]

Bimsillaah
Assalaamo alaykom!

Sister Madhoshi, how did you go about when you first came to that Masjid? Did you come under the pretence to be a ?normal sunni muslim?. It is very obvious from reading your post that you not at all support the belief of this masjid you are attending. Do they know that? Or you have made them believe that you ?are like them?? You yourself call it undercover? so I can guess they have no idea whatsoever. I must be frank and say I find this very disrespectful. This is not how al-Quran teaches us how to behave. How can being undercover (as you yourself say) correspond with being honest, truthful and sincere? Are not we muslims (regardless of what we call ourselves) supposed to be truthful, honest, reliable and sincere towards the Creator and the creation? Or does al-Quran teach us to lie? Perhaps you go by the device ?by any means necessary?, fooling people in the name of God?! This is like Trotskyism in the muslim world. 

33:70 O you who believe, be aware of God and speak straight/true words

Personally I would be upset if someone came to me and made me believe he/she is sharing the same understanding of the deen as me and then taught my children something else. That person and what he/she stands for (in your case quranists/submitter/God aloner) would be someone and something I would completely lose trust and confidence in, and would absolutely not have any respect for them whatsoever. I think not only are you doing wrong, but you?re also doing yourself a disservice.

What is disrespectful about my behavior? Last time I checked, to be a ?sunni muslim? you have to accept Allah & his prophets from Abraham to Mohammed. I believe I would qualify. So how is that  disrespectful? I am ?like them? I am a Muslim like they are.  My beliefs are different, that is a personal variation. Are you so na?ve that you think all those sunni muslim uphold the same thing and believe in all the same Hadith? They have variation. Even our group here on free-minds has variation on every sort of matter ranging from salat to fasting to hajj.

You mention you would be upset if I ?pretended? to have the same deen and taught  your children ?something else.? What is this something else are you referring to? If you would of take a few minutes to read my post as you claim, you would of noticed I only encourage the reading of the quran. I don?t tell them to abandon the Hadith or any such thing. All I do is encourage and support them to read the quran. Is this not in your hypothetical ?sunni faith?? I am very careful in making sure I leave my own pesonal interpretation of verses out of the way. This would be deceitful indeed. I only encourage them to use their own brains and interpret whatever it is they believe to be true.

I have already retracted my ?undercover? stance. Kindly Refer to my previous posts.

One other thing, on the Day of Judgment, would you, the hypothetical sunni mother, still be angry with me for helping your children see the straight path? The only anger you would have is for being blind yourself.
Peace

Are you going to debate with me like the rest of my friends here (quran 9:71)?

No it doesn't answer my question. It makes me feel that you're up at arms against me.

You can elaborate what your opinions are in regards to music and the quran with us.

I'm sorry you feel that I'm "up at arms" against you. I have no intention of this. I will again re-emphasize to you I am not there to preach my own interpretation to the students, which would defeat my whole goal of getting them to read the Quran and think for themselves. so it really doesn't matter what my opinion is about music or what have you to them. But if you personally would like to know what I think about music in relation to the quran, then let me know and I'll see if I feel like sharing my views. :-)

ASSALAMU ALAYKUM

THE PEACE (HEAVEN) BE ON YOU

The quran doesn't mention music? Surely it should mention something about music otherwise the quran would be incomplete. You'll need to teach your kids about what music is and how it fits on to the quran. Otherwise you'd be lying if you said you commented on a subject that you knew of but actually didn't. I apologize if that sounds raw but... I have to tell you the truth. Surely you don't want to lie to yourself? Inshallah you'll give me an answer that I will satisfy me.



It is not from me, thank the god. Ashshukarullah.

I specifically told a few students that Quran explicitly DOES NOT STATE THAT MUSIC IS HARAM. Then asked them to continue reading the quran to find the answer to all of their question. Now, if you know a verse that says music is haram, please give me reference, and I will surely pass this along to my students. As far as what exactly music is and how it fits in the Quran, I have my own opinion and understanding. But this I did not elaborate on to the student because I want to encourage them to explore for themselves. I'm not their to teach them my interpretation, I want to encourage them to come up with their own, with Allah's guidance. I hope this answers your question.

Surely you know of this:

http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

And this:

http://www.openburhan.net/

This: http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp

http://www.80percentwords.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfflgF_H0kY

http://www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm

I would appreciate some comments too...

Salam,

These links are simple\y amazing. Thank you.

[Some challenges]

Sorry Leyna. I know you would have loved that title, but she beat you to it. 

Peace

Salam everyone,

I wanted to share some wonderful news with you all. Recently, I've started attending a sunni mosque with my own agenda. At this particlar masjid, they teach students to read arabic. It's two hours every saturday and sunday. The aim is to teach students how to read arabic. Note, they are taught to read NOT actually learn arabic (i.e. the meaning of what they are reading). So I decided I would intervene by talking to the IMAM and getting permission to see if they'll allow me to teach the quran in english after they're arabic lesson. The IMAM agreed. Before this, the students read Arabic and had a brief break. After the break, they are told various ?prophet stories? and other such things that will make anyone who believes in monotheism cringe.  Now, I been teaching about 30 students ranging from the age of 4-16 using our free-minds quran. The students are eager to finally learn and understand the quran instead of just mere memorization & recitation in arabic. Several students requested that they wanted a free-minds quran of their own. I've ordere 5 copies, but I still need to get 25 more. I'm hoping I'll have the funds to do so soon, Inshallah.

Some challenges-

I am a women and as such I'm teaching girls. Their are two other sisters who are in charge for teaching arabic. My goal is to at least make sure every single student completes the quran in English and I'm hoping after they do that, they will see the light for themselves and will question the status quo and hopefully get on to the website (since it is listed in the free-minds quran) and truly be introduced to the religion of monotheism. As for the younger kids, at least they?ll have completed the quran in a tongue they understand so that maybe when their older, they?ll start questioning some of the staus quo.
Sometimes students ask me, esp. the teenagers about music, hijab,whether plcuking eyebrows is haram, brushing teeth with a stick to get more points, etc (all these things they were taught at the masjid during ?Islamic studies? class). I am at a position where I can't exactly blurt out to them, this is a bunch of invention or i risk getting kicked out.
I usually just answer to the student "well, this is why we are studying the quran, then you can decide for yourself" or something along those line. Does anyone have any ideas on how to deal with this? Sometimes I pull the student aside, and tell them ?no, music is not haram. Nowhere in the quran is something stated like this, I didn?t want to say it in front of everyone, else they will kick me out. But I really want you to finish reading the quran, then no one can tell you what is halal or haram except allah? I have a really unique bond with the student, because I tell them that religion is not complicated nor is it full of laws that are complicated and that it is open for all and easy for anyone to follow. The students are really engaged and they love learning from me because they actually understand what they are being taught.

On another note, do you?ll think going undercover like this is sinful? Am I committing a sin by ?manipulating? the sunni sisters/imam into letting me teach? The only thing I advocate is the quran. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

Salam,
If you?re going to quote me, please don?t leave half of my quote out, so whatever I say appears out of context. Above, you can see my original post with full context. Let me highlight the relevant points from my first post which is also quoted above in full for your easy reference:

Sometimes students ask me, esp. the teenagers about music, hijab,whether plcuking eyebrows is haram, brushing teeth with a stick to get more points, etc (all these things they were taught at the masjid during ?Islamic studies? class). I am at a position where I can't exactly blurt out to them, this is a bunch of invention or i risk getting kicked out.

I usually just answer to the student "well, this is why we are studying the quran, then you can decide for yourself" or something along those line. Does anyone have any ideas on how to deal with this? Sometimes I pull the student aside, and tell them ?no, music is not haram. Nowhere in the quran is something stated like this, I didn?t want to say it in front of everyone, else they will kick me out. But I really want you to finish reading the quran, then no one can tell you what is halal or haram except allah?


Have I told you that I don?t have an agenda?  Of course I have an agenda or a goal. What is my goal? Again you can find this in my very first post on this topic:

My goal is to at least make sure every single student completes the quran in English and I'm hoping after they do that, they will see the light for themselves and will question the status quo and hopefully get on to the website (since it is listed in the free-minds quran) and truly be introduced to the religion of monotheism. As for the younger kids, at least they?ll have completed the quran in a tongue they understand so that maybe when their older, they?ll start questioning some of the staus quo.

On one hand you claim only teaching Quran in English and on the other you claim an agenda, hoping to bring people to this website which propogates your belief and views, pulling students to the side and giving them your opinions without foundation and asking for advice whether going undercover is a sin.


I?ve already said to you that I am entitled to an opinion, just like you are. Yes, I do hope people discover free minds or God Alone communities eventually. I did pull a few students aside, and told them MUSIC IS NOT HARAM. ThiS IS NOT STATED IN THE QURAN. How is this statement without foundation? I commented on a subject I knew about. Notice I commented specifically on the ?quran.? Also, notice I encouraged them to finish reading the Quran on their own, then they can have Allah?s guidance, and NO ONE CALL TELL THEM WHAT TO DO, THIS INCLUDES MYSELF. Also note, I mentioned nothing about Hadith. 

I have asked everyone to help me decide whether what I am doing is correct is because initially when I started this project, I myself failed to realize that I AM NOT DOING ANYTHING SINFUL BY PROPOGATING THE QURAN TO SUNNI MUSLIMS WHO BELIEVE IN THE QURAN ALREADY. As long as I stay far from bashing the hadith, I should be able to uphold my word to the IMAM about teaching just the quran.  I have full backing of the IMAM to teach the student what is in the quran and what is not in the quran by helping them and encouraging them to read the quran. So this is not hypocrisy, I am compliant with my stated oath to the IMAM. Yes, I have my own agenda/goal, I don?t deny this. This is why I?m doing this.  I have asked the IMAM himself to encourage everyone to read the Quran in a language they understand during his Friday lectures. He doesn?t have a problem with this.  I?ve repeated over and over again to the students, how beautiful Quran is, how much they will love reading it, and they should definitely read it.
In summary, as the situation directs, I do admit to stating whether something is IN THE QURAN or NOT & then encourage students to continue their own study and make up their own minds.

I pray all the time these students are guided by Allah and I?m asking anyone else reading this to do the same. Prayer goes a long way.

Do you understand the meaning of the terms agenda, opinion, manipulating and undercover?

I was confused and now I understand with help from everyone here including you. I do have an agenda, an opinion, I have not manipulated anyone and I am not undercover. I was confused & everyone?s comment really helped me clarify and delineate fine lines.

It is one thing educating and it is another deceiving under the pretence of Islam.

What deception are you referring to ? If you actually give me something logical and reasonable to ponder upon, I will reply. If you intent on going in a circular argument, please spare me as I have a lot of things to do and so little time.

Sister, with all due respect. You are dangerous.

As I?ve said, you are entitled to your own opinion. As a sister who shares the same faith as you, I would encourage you to ponder upon this verse:

49:11 O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for
they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other
women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock
one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the
name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does
not repent, then these are the transgressors.

Plase don't get offended with the commets you have received from me and commence a defensive strategy.


I appreciate all the comments including those that go against my views. This is the only way to learn, and I encourage people to comment against my views if there is some wisdom to be gained from such discussion. Otherwise, I?d love to hear some ideas on how to expand on what I?m doing.

3:104 And let there be a nation from among you who calls towards
goodness, and orders kindness, and prohibits vice. And these are
the successful ones

[If you believe whole heartedly in what you preach and practice, then why hide behind a mask in order to get your point across? This is known as hypocrisy]

If you believe whole heartedly in what you preach and practice, then why hide behind a mask in order to get your point across? This is known as hypocrisy.

Who Translated the Quran from Arabic to English at Free-Minds and what are his or her credentials? What gives you the right to proclaim you are right and the current Quran's being used at the Masjid are wrong? How do you back up your argument? It's all very well saying that you just want to teach them Quran in English with no hidden agenda, but on what basis do you think this is the right approach?

Why target a Masjid which teaches Islam totally against your belief system (in your eyes). It would be much truthful to set up your own Masjid and openly advocate your way of thinking and practicing. What are you gonna say to the children about issues which people at Free-Minds themselves cannot agree upon ranging from Salaat, Saum, Zakat and Hajj when asked? Furthermore, why don't you teach the children Arabic with meaning and understanding in the first instance and then let them make up their own minds using the original language of the Quran?

I personally take offence to any form of sabotage and hypocrisy and will never condone it. I personally think disgraceful and insulting is the manner which you have weasled your way in with clear intentions of sabotage. Like I said before, if you think it is the right way, why hide and be ashamed? Does this not answer your question from the offset.

You have just given the Masjid full ammo to condemn you once they find out without even realizing it and rightfully so. How can you teach something when you yourself are ashamed of what you believe? It is sad to see some of you guys are so wrapped up in yoursleves that you don't care how it's done, as long it is done, even when you have to lie to do it.

Do what you like, but please be truthful to yourself and back up your claim with irrefutable facts.

Peace

If you believe whole heartedly in what you preach and practice, then why hide behind a mask in order to get your point across? This is known as hypocrisy.


Peace,
I?m wondering how many more times I have to repeat the fact that I am not preaching to anyone. I am not telling anyone to follow quran only and abandon hadith or anything of that nature. If you would read my earlier post, I have explained this clearly. All I?m doing is asking them to actually read and comprehend what it is they claim to be the main source of their guidance namely the Quran. This is not hypocrisy.  I have already mentioned I KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT when they preach hadith. I?m not hiding behind any mask, I have permission from the IMAM to facilitate Quran reading by these children. I exclusively told the IMAM I am here to help them read the Quran in English. And furthermore, he agrees this is important to do.


Who Translated the Quran from Arabic to English at Free-Minds and what are his or her credentials? What gives you the right to proclaim you are right and the current Quran's being used at the Masjid are wrong?


As far as I know, a group of independent translator got together and did the free-minds translation. I love this translation because it?s an easy read ,free of hadith interjection. I have nothing against using other quran translation, in fact, we are using other translation, such as the oxford quran, yusuf ali. It is not just the free minds quran. I never claimed the Quran at the masjid Is wrong. I said the quran in the masjid are all Arabic, and the students do not understand Arabic. Therefore, they should use the English quran in conjunction.

How do you back up your argument? It's all very well saying that you just want to teach them Quran in English with no hidden agenda, but on what basis do you think this is the right approach?

How else are you suppose to learn the Quran if not in a tongue that you comprehend? I don?t care what language you learn the Quran in; my point is it should be in a tongue that you can comprehend.

Why target a Masjid which teaches Islam totally against your belief system (in your eyes). It would be much truthful to set up your own Masjid and openly advocate your way of thinking and practicing.

This is something I have contemplated many times, and have made a pledge to do. I am not in the position to do this as I?m still a student. But inshallah, when I will have the capacity to do so, this will be done. You are under the belief that I am teaching them something outside of their system. I am not. I?ve already said, I?m asking them to read the quran in English? Is that not allowed at your local run of the mill masjid? I would step my boundaries if I advocated or told them to do abandon the hadith. I personally think this is the worst mistake you can make. Why should someone take my word? Who am I? This is exactly why I advocate for them to read the Quran. Once they do, they will be asking the question, not me. They will began to wonder and see the discrepancy. This is my goal anyways. If they can t see the light after reading the Quran, then god have mercy on them. Again, it is God that is teaching them through the quranic verses. Not me.


What are you gonna say to the children about issues which people at Free-Minds themselves cannot agree upon ranging from Salaat, Saum, Zakat and Hajj when asked?

My answer to every question has always been the resonant of this:  did you look in the quran? You should see what?s in there.

Furthermore, why don't you teach the children Arabic with meaning and understanding in the first instance and then let them make up their own minds using the original language of the Quran?


You assumed I speak Arabic. I don?t. I am a student myself. I am taking steps to actually learn Arabic. I can read as I have been taught when I was young, but I am a blind reader. I have nothing against teaching these children Arabic with meaning and understanding.  Obviously, you cant learn a language in one day. There curriculum is not about learning Arabic with meaning. It?s about memorization & blind reading. I was trying to interject and get them to actually know what they?re reading. You don?t need to know Arabic to be a Muslim, this is not my opinion but Allah himself:


?And had We made it a non-Arabic Qur?an, they would have said: ?If
only its revelations were made clear!? Non-Arabic and Arabic, say:
?For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who
disbelieve, there is deafness in their ears, and they are blind to it.
These will be called from a place far away.?? (Qur?an 41:44)


I am an overachiever, I guess I?m wired this way. I want to learn Arabic for myself, and I am. But if you don?t want to learn Arabic, that?s your prerrogative, I don?t think your any less of a Muslim.

I personally take offence to any form of sabotage and hypocrisy and will never condone it. I personally think disgraceful and insulting is the manner which you have weasled your way in with clear intentions of sabotage. Like I said before, if you think it is the right way, why hide and be ashamed? Does this not answer your question from the offset.


I take offense to sabotage and hypocrisy myself, but since when has advocating the Quran been considered sabotage &  hypocrisy and how? If this is indeed your view, then you are entitled to your own opinion, however, I really could care less. Allah is the best of judge and the only one in my eyes.

You have just given the Masjid full ammo to condemn you once they find out without even realizing it and rightfully so. How can you teach something when you yourself are ashamed of what you believe? It is sad to see some of you guys are so wrapped up in yoursleves that you don't care how it's done, as long it is done, even when you have to lie to do it.

What are you talking about? did you not read any of my previous post? If not, I advise  you next time to carefully read and consider what I said before you go off babbling with strong words. Why should the masjid condemn me? Because I asked the children to read the quran in a tongue they can comprehend especially haven gotten permission from the IMAM in charge? What have I lied about? I believe in God and all of his messengers and I obey and follow examples of prophets from Abraham to Mohammed in their example as revealed by the Quran. I have my own opinion and so do you , so does the IMAM, and so do the students at the masjid. We are all entitled to our own opinion. As long I don?t force my opinion down anyone?s throat, I HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS MY OPINION. But even then I limit myself, I shut my mouth, and let it be when they preach the hadith. Why do I do this? No, it is not because I am ashamed. It?s because I have a greater goal and that is to get them to read the Quran.

Do what you like, but please be truthful to yourself and back up your claim with irrefutable facts.


Thank you for your well thought out and obviously kind words with irrefutable facts. I?ve just spent half an hour of my life on this. Please, if anyone wants to comment on what they think is right and wrong, I want you to read my post, get your facts, and then do so.  All praise be to Allah, Lord of the Universe.