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Messages - ade_cool

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Homosexuality In Islam
« on: December 13, 2020, 01:39:58 AM »
What do you derive from the verses which talks about Sodom and Lut? I am someone who has never seen homosexuality as something wrong, immoral, sinful and abnormal. Despite the fact that i have been a sectarian, I have shown my full support to gays and lesbians even though i used to believe homosexuality is haram in Islam. Recently i found an article on homosexuality and it was really so great. And i agreed with it. I want to discuss it with y'all and want to see your input and opinions on that article. Your feedback is much appreciated.

Salam Sania,

My feedbacks on the article:

(1) Usage of "bal" particle

In the author argues that the use of particle "bal" in verses related to Lut's people is supporting his view that it is not about sexual orientation which makes them punished.

This is how the author translated the verses (I highlighted the translation of "bal" particle in bold):

And Lot, when he said to his people: Do you commit an outrage such as no one among the nations has exceeded you therein,/ For you really approach men with desire besides women? NAY, BUT (No, instead,) you are a people who transgress the limits. 7:80-81

Do you approach the males of the nations?/ And you leave what your Sustainer created for you of your mates? NAY, BUT (No, instead,) you are a people hostile, aggressive. 26:165-166

And Lot, when he said to his people: Do you commit an outrage while you see clearly?/ Do you really approach men with desire besides women? NAY, BUT (No, instead,) you are a people who act ignorantly. 27:54-55

I checked the usage of "bal" particle in Quran and I found that "bal" particle is also used to emphasize (not only to retract).

Some examples in Quran (I highlighted the translation of "bal" particle in bold):

[2:100] Is it that each time they make a pledge, a group of them breaks it? Alas, most of them do not believe.

In 2:100, the "bal" particle does not retract previous statement mentioned in the verse. It emphasizes that most of them indeed do not believe.

[7:179] And We have given to Hell many of the Jinn and mankind; they had hearts with which they did not understand, and they had eyes  with which they did not see, and they had ears with which they  did not hear. They are like livestock; no, they are even more astray.  These are the unaware ones.

In 7:179, the "bal" particle does not retract previous statement mentioned in the verse. It emphasizes that they are even more astray.

[11:27] The leaders who rejected from among his people said: “We do not see you except as a mortal like us, and we see that only the lowest  among our people who have no opinion have followed you. And  we do not see a thing that makes you better than us; in fact, we  think you are liars.”

In 11:27, the "bal" particle does not retract previous statement mentioned in the verse. It emphasizes they even think that Noah is liar.

Based on these, the author's argument that the usage of "bal" particle in verses related to Lut's people is supporting his view, is weak. As per examples from Quran, the "bal" particle can also be used to emphasize, which in this case against the author's view.

(2) Assaulting men from other nations

In the author argues that it is about assaulting men from other nations.

Lut prayed asking God to save him and his family. Are Lut and his family from other nations than Lut's people?

[26:165] “Do you approach the males of the worlds?”
[26:166] “And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people!”
[26:167] They said: “If you do not cease O Lot, you will be among those driven out.”
[26:168] He said: “I am in severe opposition to your acts!”
[26:169] “My Lord, save me and my family from what they do.”

I guess two feedbacks on the articles from me are enough for now :)


General Issues / Questions / Re: Story of Noah - Last Chance?
« on: December 06, 2020, 12:12:11 PM »
Salam TheUnseenLight,

[11:36] And it was inspired to Noah: “No more of your people will believe except those who have already believed. So do not be saddened by  what they have done.”
[11:37] “And construct the ship under Our eyes and Our inspiration, and do not speak to Me regarding those who are wicked. They will be  drowned.”
[11:38] And as he was constructing the ship, every time any cluster from his people passed by, they mocked him. He said: “If you mock us,  then we also mock you as you mock.”
[11:39] “You will know to whom the retribution will come to disgrace him, and upon him will be a lasting punishment.”
[11:40] So, when Our command came and the chamber erupted. We said: “Carry in it a pair from each kind, and your family; except  those against whom the word has been issued; and whoever has  believed.” But those who believed with him were few.
[11:41] And he said: “Ride in it, in the name of God shall be its running and its anchorage. My Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.”
[11:42] And while it was running with them in waves like mountains, Noah called to his son, who was in an isolated place: “My son,  ride with us, and do not be with the rejecters!”
[11:43] He said: “I will take refuge to the mountain which will protect me from the water.” He said: “There is no protection from the  decree of God except for those He has granted mercy.” And the  wave came between them, so he was one of those who drowned.
[11:44] And it was said: “O land, swallow your water, and O sky, cease.” And the water was diminished, and the matter concluded. And it  came to rest on the Judi, and it was said: “Away with the wicked  people.”
[11:45] And Noah called on his Lord, and he said: “My Lord, my son is from my family, and your promise is the truth, and you are the  Wisest of all Judges.”
[11:46] He said: “O Noah, he is not from your family, he was of an unrighteous deed, so do not ask what you have no knowledge of.  I advise you not to be of the ignorant.”
[11:47] He said: “My Lord, I seek refuge with You from asking You what I do not have knowledge of. And if You do not forgive me and  have mercy on me, I will be of the losers!”

Per my understanding, Noah was not calling his people one last time to seek repentance because in 11.36 he was given revelation that no more from his people will believe. Noah was commanding his family and believers as per 11:40. However, in later verses it is made clear that his son was not among his family that God promised to be saved.


Hadith Discussions / Re: "Sahih Bukhari" disproves Muhammad's illiteracy.
« on: December 06, 2020, 11:44:20 AM »
From my understanding it came from the interpretation of the Arabic word "ummi" in Quran, and perhaps from polemicists who wanted to elevate the miracle of Quran by saying it was from an illiterate.

Salam Wakas,

I also never understand why Sunnis are so afraid that if Muhammad can read and write, Quran is not miracle.

[17:88] Say: “If all mankind and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Qur’an like this, they could not come with its like, even if they  were helping one another.”

The thing is even if Al-Ins and Al-Jinn are helping each other, they could not come up with the like of Quran.


Salam sister Sania,


Regarding "want to re-learn the laws of Allah that hadiths corrupted", I would say without realizing it, sunnis are committing shirk because they make so many things inviolable based on sahih hadith books (not based on what God sent down).

[6:148] Those who are polytheists will say: “If God wished, we would not have set up partners, nor would have our fathers, nor would we  have made anything inviolable.” Those before them lied in the  same way, until they tasted Our might. Say: “Do you have any  knowledge to bring out to us? You only follow conjecture, you  only guess.”

Some examples:

Narrated Jabir (RA):
The Prophet (ﷺ) said: "Do not eat with the left hand, for the devil eats with the left hand." [Reported by Muslim].

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:
Let one of you eat with his right hand and drink with his right hand, and take with his right hand and give with his right hand, for Satan eats with his left hand, drinks with his left hand, gives with his left hand and takes with his left hand.

Had an argument with a hadithmonger and he asked me how did i read the Quran when there are different Qirrat

Basically he is arguing that by rejecting sahih hadith books, it is implied rejecting Quran because the two were through the same people. I usually will say to them that sahih hadith books were compiled 200 years after the demise of the prophet. So even when imam Bukhari, imam Muslim, and other hadith collectors were still not even a single cell, Quran has been written down and was already available in book form. Whatever imam Bukhari, imam Muslim, etc wrote, is separated from Quran. Why suddenly is it argued that rejecting sahih hadith books = rejecting Quran?


Hadith Discussions / Re: "Sahih Bukhari" disproves Muhammad's illiteracy.
« on: December 06, 2020, 10:29:17 AM »
Salam everyone,

So where does the belief that rassoul Allah (Mohamed) couldn't read or write come from If some hadiths say the contrary ? Other contradictory hadiths ?

Salam Fadiva,

Yes ...From sahih hadith books. Examples:

Narrated Ibn `Umar:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "We are an illiterate nation; we neither write, nor know accounts. The month is like this and this, i.e. sometimes of 29 days and sometimes of thirty days."

Narrated Ubayy bin Ka'b:
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) met Jibra'il and said: 'O Jibra'il! I have been sent to an illiterate nation among whom are the elderly woman, the old man, the boy and the girl, and the man who cannot read a book at all.' He said: 'O Muhammad! Indeed the Qur'an was revealed in seven modes.'"


Hadith Discussions / Re: Does anyone know this Hadith?
« on: November 22, 2020, 07:54:12 AM »

Those who fabricated the hadith never thought about people who are hundred of years away from prophet Muhammad. The thing is for people like us, when we have a dream meeting someone how do we even identify that this someone is Muhammad to begin with? Or Abraham, Moses, Noah, Joseph, Lot, etc for that matter?


Hadith Discussions / Re: "Sahih Bukhari" disproves Muhammad's illiteracy.
« on: November 22, 2020, 07:45:01 AM »

But when they are made aware about hadiths in sahih hadith books proving that Muhammad can read and write, they still believe that Muhammad cannot read and write because that is what they have been taught instead of researching further which one is closer to the truth (because those contradictory hadiths cannot be true at the same time) using Quran as criterion.

Adding some more as below:

Narrated Abu Humaid As-Saidi:

We accompanied the Prophet (ﷺ) in the Ghazwa of Tabuk and the king of 'Aila presented a white mule and a cloak as a gift to the Prophet. And the Prophet (ﷺ) wrote to him a peace treaty allowing him to keep authority over his country.

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

The Prophet (ﷺ) wrote a letter to Heraclius: "From Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah, to Hiraql (Heraclius), Chief of the Byzantines. Peace be to those who follow the guidance." Ibn Yahya reported on the authority of Ibn Abbas that AbuSufyan said to him: We then came to see Hiraql (Heraclius) who seated us before him. He then called for the letter from the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ). Its contents were: "In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful, from Muhammad the Messenger of Allah, to Hiraql, chief of Byzantines. Peace be to those who follow the guidance. To proceed."

Narrated Yazid ibn Abdullah:

We were at Mirbad. A man with dishevelled hair and holding a piece of red skin in his hand came.

We said: You appear to be a bedouin. He said: Yes. We said: Give us this piece of skin in your hand. He then gave it to us and we read it. It contained the text: "From Muhammad, Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), to Banu Zuhayr ibn Uqaysh. If you bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, offer prayer, pay zakat, pay the fifth from the booty, and the portion of the Prophet (ﷺ) and his special portion (safi), you will be under by the protection of Allah and His Apostle."

We then asked: Who wrote this document for you? He replied: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ).

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Once the Prophet (ﷺ) wrote a letter or had an idea of writing a letter. The Prophet (ﷺ) was told that they (rulers) would not read letters unless they were sealed. So the Prophet (ﷺ) got a silver ring made with "Muhammad Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)" engraved on it. As if I were just observing its white glitter in the hand of the Prophet.

Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam made an intention to write letters to Kisra, Qaysur (Ceasar) and Najashi, inviting them to accept Islaam. The people said: '(O Rasulullah) those people do not accept letters without a stamp on it'. For this reason Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam had a stamp made. The ring (loop) of which was silver, and had 'Muhammad Rasulullah' engraved on it".


Salam safe_from_sweden,

Interesting topic!

Per my checking on the 10 verses you mentioned, if I may summarize it will be as below:

Specific (The Messenger), without obey in front of it
Obey The God and The Messenger
3:32 3:132

Specific (His Messenger), without obey in front of it
Obey The God and His Messenger
8:1 8:20 8:46

Specific (The Messenger), with obey in front of it
Obey The God and obey The Messenger
4:59 5:92 24:54 47:33 64:12

I don't know the difference in signification when there is "obey" in front of it vs  without "obey" in front of it.

Would love to hear from others who might have researched in this area.


Introduce Yourself / Re: Peace be with you!
« on: November 18, 2020, 09:13:26 AM »
Salam adisaat


Did you check free-minds website after your acquaintances told you not to visit the site (something like "brothers and sisters, beware of this site as it will lead you astray")?

Or did you somehow come across free-minds website, check with your acquaintances and then they told you not to continue?


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