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Messages - Fadiva

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Have you ever discussed it with an atheist ? The ones to be conviced are atheists who reject the existence of God
Once one convinced another question is : what is the relation with the scriptures ?, as some see them as human made. I remember an agnostic asking why not several gods ? and the answer of a muslim was something like that " if there were several gods they will fight". He/She failed.

I have ever seen the questions of unbelievers in forums, and most of the believers who tried to answer failed, in some questions and finally gave up. They were accused of their silence (maybe as cowardice).
The lack of knowledge from some believers comforted unbelievers in their beliefs (I think). The problem is the fact that some open a topic in order to convince atheists but don't know well the scripture (Bible or Quran,etc...) they believe in.
And one of the worst behaviour is to cut a verse to make him say what they want in order to convince, how can they believe that they will succed ? (some "muslims" did that ( and non muslims but that this is not the point here) and were labelled as liars).

Maybe I 'm talking to much... ;D

General Issues / Questions / Re: Concerns
« on: June 17, 2020, 02:15:42 PM »
Peace Jafar,

No, I don't think Scriptures = God but His message.
Yes, when I was an agnostic I thought that there can be a God excluding scriptures.

It is ok to have no fears, but this does not necessarily mean that we are right.

Yes, it's right that some people use fears to prevent people from seeking other things or even from thinking otherwise. And religions are accused of manipulating their believers by some people.

I remember having read a message from a French muslim thinker (I don't remember is name) saying that if there was no Hell, a lot of "muslims" will not follow Islam (something like that) if I remember well) meaning that fear of hell holds them back. Maybe he was right maybe be wrong. But I think he was talking according to his experience of life, his meetings with other muslims.
The idea of hell is in the average muslim minds ( maybe a majority of them). Maybe more than the thinking of paradise.

 Peace nimnimak.
in black = minimak, in purple = me

1) We cannot understand impossibilities (things that can never exist such as married bachelors)

I think so... more precisely something which directly "contradicts"( i think there is a more appropriate word) the other thing like two opposite colors to discribe one color; bleu/red: it is bleu or red. (otherwise they are two color red and blue or a mix of them: purple or violet). This also depends on the definitions and understandings we have for words.

2) That which is not an impossibility either necessarily exists (necessity) or at the very least can come into existence (possibility). Where necessity or possibility is not the case, impossibility (round square) or meaninglessness (sdfjksdfj) is necessarily the case and vice versa.

Can you reformulate to be more precise ?
For you is possibility related to ability of imagination ?

3) We understand human and unicorn. Given 1-2, either p) humans/unicorns exist (necessity) or q) humans/unicorns can come into existence (possibility). With humans we know that both p and q are true. With unicorns we don't know if p is true, but we know that q is true because unicorns are hypothetically possible as opposed to hypothetically impossibile.

Yes. We can imagine thing like unicorn and its potetially possible. We can reason with possibilities and impossibilities, something which is not impossible can be possible, ok. But if we are talking about probabilities, thinks are different. I think that a lot of people reason with probabilities and take into consideration the environement they live in, more precisely the knowledge about it (named laws of nature). And what contradicts it, is rejected by some people.

4) Like human and unicorn, we understand omnipotence (almightiness). Therefore either p*) something omnipotent exists (necessity) or q*) something omnipotent can come into existence (possibility)

Yes but keep in mind that our understanding is limited, and some people understand more than other people. We have an idea of "omnipotence" (maybe a more clear idea for some believers)but I think we don't know how it is extended (I mean all the extent of this power).

5) Nothing can become omnipotent from a non-omnipotent state. This is because omnipotence logically requires reach and access to all things. This requires true omnipresence (to be all-present). Since nothing can become truly omnipresent without being truly omnipresent in the first place, nothing can become omnipotent from a non-omnipotent state. Also, that which is truly omnipresent cannot magically shift from being non-omnipotent to being omnipotent. That would be a case of something coming from nothing (which is absurd)

So, you mean that "something" which is omnipotent is uncreated. Ok.
I've never understood the question : who created God ? This question has not have to be for me.

6) Given the fact that we cannot understand impossibilities, and given the fact that we understand omnipotence, then either p* or q* or both must be true. 5 shows that q* is logically impossible, therefore; p*) something omnipotent exists (necessity). In other words, neither impossibile, meaningless or possible; therefore necessary.

You can change omnipotence to true Perfection (God/Allah) and you will still get the same result.

I think you have to clarify some parts, like what I have change in red. I quite understood what you said, but it I think it would be useful to clarify so that it can be clear to most of the the people here.

And in important thing ( I think): the definitions of words we have in mind or can understand, can have an effect on the result of our reasonning

General Issues / Questions / Re: Concerns
« on: June 15, 2020, 06:55:00 AM »
What is that?
I don't recommend you to believe.
I recommend you to question and seek, so you will KNOW and NOT BELIEVE.

Religion however took the opposite approach.
Kim Jong Un asked his believer to BELIEVE that he invented hamburger and North Korea is the best country in the world. Those who dare to question such belief and/or seek the actual knowledge will be horribly punished.

Another commonality among 'believer' is, who that they fear the most?
It's the unbeliever, because the cause of their fear do not works to cause fear against unbeliever.

How can you conquer something if you haven't been exposed to it?
You cannot conquer fear by not feeling the fear, without the sense of fear you will not have any reference of what is fear in the first place. Isn't it?
How can you conquer something when you don't know what is that thing in the first place?

That's why I recommend you to TRACE your fear. Questioned it! What is fear? Why? How?
Only by tracing the path then you will KNOW, once you KNOW you can easily conquer it.

Peace Jafar,

I understood that you didn't recomand me to believe, I just ask you if you consider yourself as a deist ?
There are a lot of things we can't know, even if I question myself. But we can reach to an answer if we look for it, but for some things not all things. And of course, I think that without doing anything we can't reach anything.

I don't thing that all the believers fear the unbelievers. But some people can question themselves if someone think otherwise, and maybe even more if a majority think otherwise. I think that some people are upset if someone else think otherwise, and even more if they are enable to answer their questions.

I have  been exposed to it : unbelief (I could describe myself as an agnostic), and during that period of time in my life, I wasn't exposed to those fears. But "something", I don't know how to explain it, twice or more times led me to reconsider beliefs and approach God and try to be fair and read the scripture(s). I really want to be fair and if I do otherwise it causes suffering to me. I don't know if you understand me.

We can't have all the answers but we can trust. And of course we mustn't trust blindly.
I am someone who is conscious that as a humain being I can do mistakes. I don't turn a blind eye on my weaknesses.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Concerns
« on: June 14, 2020, 02:53:21 PM »
And the non believers are correct!

Religion like Islam, Catholicism, Judaism, Mardukism, Ancient Egyptianism, Arab Paganism, Kimism, Stalinism, Nazism, Japanese Empire Facism, Saudi-ism uses fear to dominate over other people. You should be suspicious of anything that uses or leverage fear to attain their objective of domination.

Pride, Domination, Fear that's key characteristics of the dark forces, regardless of name or label that they're using.
The same goes even on personal level... friend, boyfriend, husband, family member, superior, boss, work colleague etc..

Yet once you conquer the fear, they have no power whatsoever over you.

Peace Jafar,

We are going out of topic, but are you  a deist ? Someone who believe in one God but not in any scripture ?

I know that if we don't fear something, it hasn't an(psychological) effect on oneself.
But not feraing something does not mean there isn't any danger.

Salaam alaikum.
I have been a visiting ourbecon forum since 2008. Many of times moderators their delete posts without notifying why they r doing that.
Recently I Posted their the same question which I posted here at FM i.e Muhammad(s) location. One of the moderator their,Khalil khan,a very arrogant person instead of replying or not to the question he asked me what is the proof that I am an Indian Muslim.To that I replied,u r talking like NarendraModi,Pm of India,who is also asking the same question to Indian Muslim. Khalil khan deleted the entire thread. Such a arrogant person.
Ourbeacon is loosing its touch.


Is that the fact to be an Indian muslim matters ? As non Indian we can't share our opinion? or as non muslim ? Or should you be both of them ?
They seems to be very suspicious (reading your post). You shouldn't participate in a discussion forum in which you think censure is overused.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Concerns
« on: June 12, 2020, 10:18:30 AM »
Peace Jafar,

Yes, I should dig deeper into the problem.

"Of course, they invented angry and nasty god(s), to instill FEAR, as such they can control and dominate over other people. It's a common and recurring pattern since ancient times up until today."

Yes. And non believers (maybe most of them) think that "religions" like islam uses it ( fear) to dominate over other people. (but it's another subject).

General Issues / Questions / Re: Concerns
« on: June 09, 2020, 10:18:12 AM »
Peace Fadiva.
Thank you for your reply.
Just to clarify we say thank you to people, this is a normal requirement . Like when we return the greetings of people.
However our thanks to GOD should always take precedence and become a habit.

The example that I want to highlight about thanking others when GOD does things is like when people pray to GOD when they have a need ,but when their need is solved,they thank the saints and make offerings/charity on behalf of "human idols" or others ,forgetting GOD altogether.

GOD bless you.

Peace Good Logic,

Thanks to Allah I understand you now. Yes, it's logical. Thak you for having shared your understanding.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Concerns
« on: June 09, 2020, 10:12:46 AM »
Peace Fadiva,

I think the main problem here is your anxiety.
And I bet that beside your 'anxiety about set up partner with God' you also have many other type of anxiety.

Before going back to your anxiety, let's address the illogicality of setting up partner with God.

The idea came due to POLYTHEISM.

Within Polytheistic concept, a god or a deity is a FINITE being, more of 'super human' kind of being.
There are many of them, each having their own kingdom / area of jurisdiction, can get pissed off, crazy of being praised / worshiped, need offerings (lamb, camel, your own children or wives) and they're also competing with each others and often involved with war among themselves. (War between gods).

Basically a god is one f&*d up, crazy, narcissistic kind of human being with super human power.

So let's say you're a worshiper of Marduk, Marduk will be heavily pissed of if you also consider Zeus as another God let alone Zeus as your God. Because Marduk sees Zeus as among his competitor and vice-versa, they don't get along well and each think that they're a greater God than the others. Sometimes they also fought war with each others.

Within MONOTHEISM concept, God is an INFINITY, The Infinite Creator, Sustainer and Maintainer of All.
By ALL here really means ALL, another universe than this physical universe of ours, another galaxy, another stars, planets and any conscious being within; Aliens, the people that you hate, plants, animals, ghost, spirit, what have you.

Because it's an Infinity there is no logical and possible way for two or more infinity to exist, because as such there will be a border between the two (or more) which render itself to be no longer an infinity but a finite something.

People may named this Infinite Creator using different names, Brahman, Tao, YHVH, Hyang Widhi, Infinite Intelligence, Infinite Universe what have you, but as long as it's a reference to the same concept, it doesn't matter.

With such definition you don't need to be anxious of you having another Infinite Creator beside the Infinite Creator right? Because it's impossible and totally illogical.

Now about your anxiety, you should then ask questions towards yourselves;
WHY you feel anxious?
Where does the fear came from?

Hello Jafar,

Yes, I think also that anxiety is a problem or the problem here.
I've never really thought about the nature of God, I just try to do the good trying to anderstand what Allah's message is.
With the definition you've given, I think it is impossible to have another infinite God.
However, in al quran, we can read that people can invents gods.

I think that such fears can appear because of lack of insurance.


General Issues / Questions / Re: Concerns
« on: June 09, 2020, 09:58:27 AM »
You're welcome.

I noticed synchronicity is very much part of following God alone, but strangely, we don't talk about it.

Here is the definition of the word: "Synchronicities are events connected to one another not by strict cause-and-effect, but by what in classical times were known as sympathies, by the belief that an acausal relationship exists between events on the inside and the outside of ourselves, a crosstalk between mind and matter—which is governed by a certain species of attraction.

Jung believed that synchronicities mirror deep psychological processes, carry messages the way dreams do, and take on meaning and provide guidance to the degree they correspond to emotional states and inner experiences

Maybe God is guiding you to something significant?

Hello Reel,

You can open a new thread to talk about the subject. I would be interested to read what you noticed.

Now I understand, yes maybe there are events in our lives which are connected, maybe those mean something important, I don't know if we have to take them into account ( If Allah authorize it).
I read the article you gave me, I don't know if his story is true, but I understood the topic.
I am a person who doubt, and I can lack of insurance.
I have been spiritual, then rational and down to earth, and now reconsider things. I thing I can question what I thought true (even it's not easy) to hope to approach or reach the truth.
I think I am afraid to wrong myself, maybe to much that I can't really move forward (or I don't really notice it).

Maybe it would be interesting to talk about experiences we can identify as "synchronicities" or succesive signs.
I noticed some in my life (several) and one I can't find any rational explaination (and another I can explain in part but can't explain it all).
But if those where signs  as warning to conduct me to the right path, I wonder why I deserve this, because I wasn't all my life a believer and sometimes I can doubt and thrive to reject doubts.

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