Show Posts

Peace Cerberus, impression is based on the imagination. Although the human imagination is the source of all falsehood in the universe, this doesn't mean that truth cannot come from controlled imagination. Take your example of "impression". I talk to someone on the phone and I get the impression that they are a young 18 year old boy. When I meet them, they are actually a 60 years old man. What gave me the impression is my imagination. As I control my imagination with the truth from meeting them, I change my impression and so on. If I am really in strong control of my imagination, then I wouldn't even form an impression about their age until I meet them and ask them what their age is

Yes impression is based on imagination. Imagination simply being the human ability to form mental images. It's a pretty vague thing. I brought impression specifically as a counter-example to your initial claim that "fantasy" is the "only" source of falsehood.
Imagination is an ability.
What you consider "controlling imagination" is simply reasoning logically about what you imagine, and not just anything you "imagine", specifically the things that you imagine while being unaware,that is, false perceptions and impressions...You simply are applying reason to what you think. Which you should. Just like you would to the things you are looking at, listening to, talking about ..etc.

Generally one should reason about what they have in mind, and about their motives. Good logic brought the "problem" of reason being used as an argumentation tool rather than a tool to find truth. Which is true, just like if you had a group of criminals "reasoning" about HOW to weasle their way into a bank to steal the money. But what about reasoning about the WHY ? that's where you find that they have their reasons for wanting to steal the bank but it's all just nonsense that is selfishly motivated.

Reason applied to ourselves brings self-knowledge, understanding of ourselves and wisdom, and allows us to rectify our thoughts and behavior.

I dont find it intuitive to keep trying to pinpoint things as being "the only source of falsehood" or what not. I understand you're trying to find something which you can project back unto to quran in place of "Jinn", but I find it more intuitive to focus on the source of truth. (source as in what brings to truth)

Humans are not the source of the truth. The truth is out there whether humans find it or not. We are merely trying to get closer to the truth. Whether you have an impression about someone's age or not, you can only get closer to the date of birth but not down to the exact millisecond. You cannot control the time dimension that makes him age or the rate of regeneration of cells in his body to make him look younger or older. The god is the truth and is the source of all truth.

I agree, I've not claimed that humans create truth or something

What is the source of truth in humans doesn't necessarily mean what generates truth, but what leads to it. What brings people to the truth, or closer to it. If you were to think that you had two sources of truth for example, they ought to be coherent. As truth cannot contradict truth. I briefly brought Ibn Rushd because he was a muslim who believed that the Quran is a source of truth, but also believed that reason is a source of truth. However, unlike most muslims (or religious people in general), he had the courage to say that if an interpretation of the quran were to come in conflict with the findings of reason, then the quran ought to be reinterpreted so as to meet the findings of reason, stating that truth cannot negate truth. (which is also what you're trying to do with your struggle to pinpoint something as the ultimate source of falsehood that meets the "reinterpreted" descripton of Jinn, which is fine, good luck to you)

In the traditional judeo-christian human-centric view of the world the human is at the center of the universe and thus his measurement of the truth is what defines truth. In the great reading world view truth is independent of humans and truth is not determined by our measurement. Our measurement is merely an attempt to get closer to the truth that is already out there no matter what we choose.

The individual is at the center of his own life. This is what matters. What judeo christian or whatever worldview is irrelevant. If the individual decides to seek the truth how does he do it ? The individual must be able to seek the truth and find it. (or get closer to it or whatever you prefer, it's not like the truth is a single point that the individual can sit on). I agree that our attempt to measure truth is for the sake of getting closer to the truth. The idea that a measurement instrument for something defines that thing is a crazy idea.

Yes. Scientists use those tools to get closer to the truth in the universe. Scientists don't create truth. The god is not some being in white robes sitting on a cloud. The god is the truth and the universe is created with the truth. It is not a possibility. It is a certainty.

I agree

Quote from: reel on July 01, 2020, 03:25:25 AM

Indeed controlling our imagination and making it submit to our real self is simple but can be hard because we often forget ourselves and we let the imagination take over.

Initially, it's very much needed to try to understand oneself first, using the tool that we've been gifted with.
I used to think controlling oneself was necessary but as times went by I learned, though I'm still experiencing and reflecting on it, that the goal is not to control oneself but rather to change oneself. From this unreasonable, selfish impulsive individual to a reasonable selfless, thoughtful, intelligent individual. This I think is the purpose of life. A sort of metamorphosis.
I dont think that there needs to be a constant issue in our existence that must be resolved by means of a constant control. But perhaps the issue or conflict could be replaced by harmony by means of change. And the direction of this change is determined by reason.

General Issues / Questions / Re: The fuel of hell and the new life forms of heaven

« on: July 21, 2020, 04:02:36 AM »

These seem to be conclusions from self-reflection, which is good, but there is more to it imo, so allow me to contribute with my two cents.

An example of falsehood that is not necessarily "human fantasy" is impressions (e.g a woman seeing her husband talking to another woman and becomes jealous) Not that impressions are always wrong, but they are likely to be wrong because they are not founded on something that make them true. This is the real question: What is the source of truth. And of course if truth has a source then it must be unique or in a sense coherent with any other source of truth, because as Ibn Rushd said, truth cannot negate truth.

Now truth, how do you know that what you think is true is really true ? People have to have a tool by which they can measure truth. Otherwise, in the absence of such tool, people are left with things that make them feel comfortable. In other words, in the absence of such tool, people will inevitably choose what brings them pleasure, self-fulfillement, comfort...something that serves them selfishly, this is the is the root of "evil", imo.

Do we even have such tool ? is it internal or external ? Are we born with it, do we acquire it ?

I think we have it, it is what makes humans above animals, our ability to reason, to think logically, to reflect on oneself etc, it is something that is tied to our mind. Now do we have access to it ? Not that granted, one has to learn to use it, or in a sense "follow it", and the more you do the more it clears out for you as if it was foggy in the first place. Or like Rumi says: "Sit, be still, and listen. You are drunk and we are at the edge of the roof!".

If such thing is really is the tool by which truth is determined, then in fact, science is a good example of it. If scientists are able to uncover the inner workings of the different things in our universe using that very tool, and the possibility that our universe was created by a a God Being, and such inner workings were meticulously designed by God, doesn't that sort of make that tool something shared between us and God ? Or at the very least, it allows us to understand the hows and whys of God's creation ? Isn't that something ?

What happens when we continuously apply that tool on our own self and life ? We gain self-knowledge, understanding and wisdom. But it is not as easy as applying it on external things the way scientists do. Because we are constantly inclined to go for what brings us self-fulfillement, that selfish nature of the human body. It is as if, scientists were continuously offered large sums of money to back certain theories. Will there be any truth ?

General Issues / Questions / Re: Is this possible

« on: July 03, 2020, 04:22:35 AM »

The quality of thoughts that people harbor is what benefits them. Not them knowing about narcs or reading a bunch of random blog articles about it. Life doesn't revolve around that. It revolves around how one thinks.

And if anyone wants to learn something, definitely do not waste time reading tons of articles about narcs, reel is a good example of that. But instead, learn the distinction between reason and emotion. How reason must keep ALL emotions in check, and no matter how you feel, you must always try to follow reason instead of your emotions. Emotions don't know anything about right or wrong, they only seek to be fulfilled, selfishly, careless about anything or anyone else, careless about what is right or wrong. And they push you to do careless, selfish, self-fulfilling acts.

Our thinking has the ability to fix our emotional reactions to people. We can override our false impressions with more reasonable ones, and react to them accordingly.

Quote
There is a lot that you ignore, things that affects us directly, things that require self-knowledge. Do you think someone who lacks self-knowledge is going to be able to TRUTHFULLY DIAGNOSE A SITUATION ? Ignoring their own self in the process despite how much your own self is affecting you in a situation, in reading the situation and forming opinions about it. That people wish to feel better about themselves and the things they are willing to say, believe and accept to achieve that... There is more than just narcs and victims of narcs...

That’s the preferred weapon of narcs: Gaslighting is a form of psychological......

Quote from: reel on June 29, 2020, 01:52:46 AM

Quote
Life is way too short to be thinking like this, to be living like a perpetual victim, or to be held back by other people's wrong doings... Also if you believed that you've been damaged tha's when you truly become damaged.

That's the exact thing narcs use against their victims though. There is a joke about it also:

At this point I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. I have nothing for you and you got nothing for me, you follow your findings and I follow mine.
But if there is anything I must still emphasize on, despite our disagreement, is that you should definitely STOP RESPONDING LIKE THE ABOVE. I understand this is part of the typical "LITERALLY HITLER" type of liberal american speech to dismiss other people, but it's pretty crazy. And there is alot of crazy going on in the world rn and specially in your country (idk if it's because it's the most mediatized or because crazy people are becoming louder and louder over there or both?) and by crazy I mean those who gave up reason for their own selfish emotions. It's ok to be told that "you ignore things, here is why", doesn't make me have to be associated with a mental illness, the boogeyman that you created for yourself.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Is this possible

« on: June 29, 2020, 05:29:58 AM »

She mentioned narcs. Later cleared up that it was about her employment. That said, there is a reason why narcs can't keep employees, spouses, friends and relatives. The abuse they do is called body snatching. We know very well that you are not a narc. What you said is concensus held by all of us. However, it doesn't apply to their victims.

You have to understand that we are not talking about narcs, or victims of narcs. I never did, nor did OP. I said, and I still maintain it, that we are not born to be perpetual victims, yes we can be wronged (and therefore be victims) but we follow our best judgement to do something about it, this is our life and we are eventually responsible for it.

When someone says, THIS or THAT is a narc, it doesn't make THIS or THAT a narc. For even the one who blames the other of evil doing can be blamed by others of evil doing themselves. Looking at things from different angles. Do they have good judgement ? I do not trust people to have good judgement at all. Are they biased ? I do not trust people to be unbiased at all. Naturally, people's reason is being overshadowed by their selfish emotions. It is the most pervasive thing that is happening in today's world. I feel hurt therefore I am hurt and he who appear to hurt me is the reason why. Incorrect. The things that appear to hurt you could be wrong, they're simply impressions, very simplistic, shallow impressions that poorly and selfishly explain why things are happening to you.

Quote from: reel on June 29, 2020, 01:52:46 AM

Animals don't waste their lives taking revenge year after year like narcs. Here is what happened to Air Force veteran who killed himself for not being able to take the abuse any longer:

This is an absurdly strange followup to what I said. It's very simple though, that even animals (assuming we mutually agree that we are supposed to be better than animals), THEY face struggle too, and they must deal with them and they do, and they become better, more experienced, more prepared for the wild life by doing so. Like a lion that had long lasting pride must have fought against so many lions, and must have the most scars too. It is not a matter of complaining but rather of doing the right thing...AND WE as humans must do the right thing aswell when facing tribulations. We are resourceful, intelligent, strong, thoughtful beings and we better believe so, positivity helps tremendously to uncover our potential. There is no life without struggle... So in my opinion, it is better to adopt a more positive mindset about struggle, and to take struggle as an opportunity to improve ourselves.

Quote from: reel on June 29, 2020, 01:52:46 AM

My views about those verses actually changed. I wouldn't apply them to limited soceity we live in.

It's ok for views to change, but only if they change for what's more reasonable. If you can thoughtfully back up why you think that a general statement like "Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear" does not apply in today's world.

There is a lot that you ignore, things that affects us directly, things that require self-knowledge. Do you think someone who lacks self-knowledge is going to be able to TRUTHFULLY DIAGNOSE A SITUATION ? Ignoring their own self in the process despite how much your own self is affecting you in a situation, in reading the situation and forming opinions about it. That people wish to feel better about themselves and the things they are willing to say, believe and accept to achieve that... There is more than just narcs and victims of narcs...

What you have brushed away before is an accurate, deep, truth; an ill-directed mind brings the most harm. Clueless people run toward their own demise. And pain is inevitable, and an invitation to reform or not reform. Most people do not reform though, they prefer the easy way, the pleasurable, less painful way, by means of things like distractions, self-fulfilling stances, finding comfort in groups, etc etc...

I think this is my last contribution for this thread.

Women's Issues / Re: Fellow females, do any of you still wear the hijab

« on: June 28, 2020, 09:17:17 AM »

I see a lot of talks about what to wear but rarely about what is modesty ? As if the concept of modesty is truly understood, and all that is left now is to put on some clothes to achieve it.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Is this possible

« on: June 28, 2020, 09:02:55 AM »

That's the exact thing narcs use against their victims though. There is a joke about it also:
"Narcissist's Prayer: That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it."

I responded to you with my personal opinion when you said something that boiled down to this: "she is hurt and hurt and damage is hard to fix" and that's how you dismiss it ? We're not even in the context of a narc vs a victim, or are you trying to prove someone here is a narc ?

You are describing survival of the fittest family system in which narcs are the parents. Unfortunately, this is unhealthy and immoral for humans: http://parenting.exposed/tag/survival-of-the-fittest-family-system/

No i'm not...and I've just re-explained it to OP.
"even animals aren't held back by their struggle, but in the contrary, they become stronger and more prepared", absolutely ZERO to do with bullying.

Such things don't apply to victims esp scapegoat children of narcs. What they go through is like emotional rape. Nature of narcs truly debunks the idea that movie villains are fictional characters. They live to be evil. Hard to believe. Children are an easy target. This sums up what is in store for them: https://www.nctsn.org/what-is-child-trauma/trauma-types/complex-trauma/effects

"such things I do not understand but here is another article, this one about child trauma"

Ok well to hell with stoic philosopy or buddhist wisdom or anything in-between, but assuming you follow the quran....what do you make of the following verses:

"For indeed, with hardship [will be] ease."

"Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear"

"He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed"

(if you say "Such things don't apply to victims esp scapegoat children of narcs" I'd truly be impressed)

General Issues / Questions / Re: Is this possible

« on: June 28, 2020, 01:23:42 AM »

The thing is, if you got offered a job (not voluntary work) and you worked very hard and at the end of it all do not get paid, would you not feel like that's unjust? Don't tell me you're better than the rest of us and could just get over it in a day. I also bet you have felt wronged in your life before in other words, like a 'victim'. So there's no need to victim blame. I have the right to feel angered by what happened.

If it is unjust it's unjust; Personally I might get frustrated at first, but I'll eventually try to see if there is anything I can do, e.g suing, and if I was willing to go that route, I'll do it, otherwise, I'll just drop it. Might leave a couple of bad reviews etc...and then move on.

Just because animals may have it worse than me, doesn't mean that what I've been through hasn't been a struggle. We all have our own struggles and trials in life. Funnily enough this is what narcissists do. They undermine a person's suffering by always comparing it to someone else's. If I were an animal going through those struggles you've mentioned and I'd complain hypothetically speaking, I guess you could say well at least you didn't die in a fire. I'm not saying you're a narcissist but undermining my struggle is not a good to do.

The point that I tried to make is that even animals aren't held back by their struggle, but in the contrary, they become stronger and more prepared.

And my case is worthy of bringing into court. Would you also tell all other people who went to court that they all have a victim mentality and should just forget and let the narcissists and the sociopaths out there carry on doing illegal activities?

Yes absolutely, if you can go to court do so...That's one of the things that you could do. Your question is absolutely nonsensical though, I've never said anything close to that....