Messages

First of all, wikipedia? Really?
Dodgy really dodgy, how do you start a war and put your life on the line for a specific cause (an "Islamic state") and then all of a sudden flip the script(Syrian-nationalism).
Either the information from wikipedia is very dubious or this group itself is very dubious. Perhaps their identity has been confused or perhaps the leaders have been paid off, either way not a trustworthy lot if you asked me.

Salaam,
I understand what you say, but I believe that criticism should be done with good words.
Have you not seen how God puts forth the example that a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches are in the sky? (14:24)
Criticizing with good words could lead to a good relationship and to knowledge growth, instead criticizing with bad words only bring discussion like you just witnessed.

You're absolutely right

[and alternation of the night and the day]

I do not see the relevance of the question in this specific instance.
I do not know what you might think must satisfy as a Sign in this ayat, but the Signs of Allah are everything. It is pretty clear, alternation of night and day ships in the sea... the simplest things can be recognized as Signs by those who reason, have intellect and believe with certainty. The Signs need not to be grandiose things for those with vision.

The fact the sun is moving and returning to us daily brining us visibility is enough of a Sign.

2:164

Inna fee khalqi alssamawati waal-ardi waikhtilafi allayli waalnnahari waalfulki allatee tajree fee albahri bima yanfaAAu alnnasa wama anzala Allahu mina alssama-i min ma-in faahya bihi al-arda baAAda mawtiha wabaththa feeha min kulli dabbatin watasreefi alrriyahi waalssahabi almusakhkhari bayna alssama-i waal-ardi laayatin liqawmin yaAAqiloona

Indeed, in (the) creation (of) the heavens and the earth, and alternation of the night and the day, and the ships which sail in the sea with what benefits [the] people, and what (has) sent down Allah from the sky [of] water, giving life thereby (to) the earth after its death, and dispersing therein [of] every moving creature, and directing (of) the winds and the clouds [the] controlled between the sky and the earth, surely (are) Signs for a people who use their intellect.

13:1-3

Alif Laam Mim Ra. These (are) the Verses (of) the Book. And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord (is) the truth, but most (of) the mankind (do) not believe.
Allah (is) the One Who raised the heavens without pillars that you see, then He established on the Throne and subjected the sun and the moon each running for a term appointed, He arranges the matter; He details the Signs so that you may in the meeting (with) your Lord believe with certainty.
And He (is) the One Who spread the earth, and placed in it firm mountains and rivers, and from all (of) the fruits He made in it pairs two. He covers the night (with) the day. Indeed, in that surely (are) Signs for a people who ponder.


Peace to you

[alyameeni]

Dear Herbman,

I do not have any significant evidence for my statement, and I probably should not have passed it off as a definitive infallible hypothesis. I certainly ope that it wasn't mistaken as such. What I used to come up to that conclusion was merely logic and critical thinking as you claim in your hypothesis.
Simply because, we know very clearly and we can witness anytime the sun rising from east and setting to the west, it seems more probable that the differing factor is perspective. This is similar to your conclusion however, your hypothetical perspective is not only spatial but also temporal.
Not only that, but it seems you also attempt to make the claim that left and right in Arabic, actually mean North and South.

I do not think my hypothesis is correct, but I genuinely doubt yours is either and this is not to foster confrontation among us, just to improve on our critical thinking and studiousness in Quran.

It is well established through out the text that l-yamini and l-shimali mean right and left.

Look at verse 16:48


16:48

Awa lam yaraw ila ma khalaqa Allahu min shay-in yatafayyao thilaluhu AAani alyameeni walshama-ili sujjadan lillahi wahum dakhiroona   

Have not they seen [towards] what Allah has created from a thing? Incline their shadows to the right and to the left, prostrating to Allah while they (are) humble?


According to YOUR translation this would indicate shadows incline to the south and north. However it does not make sense in physics/optics that an illuminating object traveling westward and facing the Northern direction can cause other objects below itself to cast shadows southward. Go stand outside and place a stick in an open place where the sun light cannot be blocked by buildings or other natural objects. The shadow will never cast southward.
This alone is enough to say that at least l-yamini in this verse does not correspond to south it just cannot. It would be highly illogical and disproving of our ability to successfully observe nature to claim otherwise.

This is but one example, the Quran has many more instances of the usage of the root words ya mim nun  and shin mim lam. They simply mean right and left.

I think it is innovative that you attempt to build on the same idea that perspective must be the issue, however, introducing more agents as translation error and duration of event(temporal factor) does not necessarily help us get to a sound conclusion. It rather adds unnecessary complexity (parsimony) and suggests the very ridiculous idea that Arabic is such a complex idiom that the people speaking it do not even know what left and right even is.

There are a few other flaws with your hypothesis. (Again my hypothesis could probably be utterly wrong too, I just want to arrive at a sound conclusion bereft of clear inconsistencies).

1)You say that left and right alone is meaningless but there is a clear reference in the verses which is the cave with the boys in it and the open space thereof..

2)Because we do have a clear reference point, I think to bring in the idea of the solstices is also not demonstrative of astronomical awareness as solar analemma shows us that from a specific vantage point throughout the "solar year" the sun does not completely change its position to any extreme directionality as north and south. Solar analemma cannot possibly be what we are being described in this verse as analemma is visualized by taking pictures of a celestial body from the same geographical location and at the same time each day for a year or whatever desired duration. This conflicts with what the verse describes because we clearly have a rising and setting. As seen emboldened in Surah18 Aya 17 below.

3)In the Verse we see a clear description of a sun rising and sun setting. This is what you are neglecting in your hypothesis. At this point realizing that the description is of a sunrise and sunset left and right become trivial and meaningless. All that needs to be adjusted is perspective. However the right perspective is paradigm-shifting.



I have made some highly simplistic diagrams to allow a better visualization of my hypothesis.







"and when it set, passing away from them to the left while they (lay) in the open space thereof"



To remind everyone of the verses

18:17

Watara alshshamsa itha talaAAat tazawaru AAan kahfihim thata alyameeni wa-itha gharabat taqriduhum thata alshshimali wahum fee fajwatin minhu thalika min ayati Allahi man yahdi Allahu fahuwa almuhtadi waman yudlil falan tajida lahu waliyyan murshidan

And you (might) have seen the sun, when it rose, inclining away from their cave to the right, and when it set, passing away from them to the left while they (lay) in the open space thereof. That (was) from (the) Signs (of) Allah. Whoever Allah guides and he (is) the guided one, and whoever He lets go astray then never you will find for him a protector, a guide.


18:18
Watahsabuhum ayqathan wahum ruqoodun wanuqallibuhum thata alyameeni wathata alshshimali wakalbuhum basitun thiraAAayhi bialwaseedi lawi ittalaAAta AAalayhim lawallayta minhum firaran walamuli/ta minhum ruAAban

And you (would) think them awake while they (were) asleep. And We turned them to the right and to the left, while their dog stretched his two forelegs at the entrance. If you had looked at them, you (would) have surely turned back from them (in) flight and surely you would have been filled by them (with) terror.

Salaamun,

There is no mention of date-palm tree in Arabic.
Why not a banana-palm tree?

Why everyone tries to fit whole alQuranic stories coming from gulf only?

Try thinking outside the box and seek guidance from the Alone, Allah.

Rather seek guidance for your SouthAsian self resenting that Allah sent down His Message to the Arabian people. Allah chooses whomsoever He wills and your resentment amounts to nothing.
Remember Iblis also resented that a particular people received authority from their Lord

ahh... HP_Tech see how you dug yourself. Can you even see it ? I'm sure all the forum members can see it.

Shooo!



I am not a weak-minded sheep that is concerned with the opinion of others... ESPECIALLY many of the people that post here....

Peace,
sorry, let me correct myself: I would suggest to apologize to him.

And why should I apologize?
I said nothing that which I should apologize for. My approach is what makes me different than others. I am stern and firm. No ill intentions, just tough love.
Everyone who signs up in this forum is open to criticism. If you want to share your ideas on the internet, know that others can criticize you.
What is truly unfair is for God to have given us reason and for some not to apply it.
Furthermore I see in these kinds of questions something you may not currently see.

If you truly want to mediate all unfairness in this forum, without being impartial then you have an impossible job ahead of you.

Dear jkhan

Do not accept responses related to science from wanna be religious scholars.
They simply do not know ish. They barely know Quran.
Science is a unicorn to them.

Yo don't stress conversing with this restless shaytan he argues the truth with falsehood and those whom descended on him have deluded him into believing he is rightly guided.
Let him be, all discourse is futile with him as he is completely locked.

Hey Rilum, I don't really know you and you seem like a cool guy and all, but DON'T. EVER. presume you can tell me what to do.