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Has anyone noticed, how Lane?s Lexicon claims jasadan is used in Quran 7:146 and 20:90, when jasadan instead appears in 7:148 and 20:88 (at least in the version I know of)??

Why is the word in question claimed to be in different verses than in the version of Quran we have available on version which I know of?

Bismillah Al Rahman Al Rahim

I commence this meeting for consultation in the Name of The Most Gracious The Most Merciful

I am nearing the threshold of my decades, and although I am not yet fully accomplished in a manner in which I want to be,
I think it would be wise to begin to think about what I am to do in the event Allah bestows upon me a spouse who would bring comfort to my eyes.

I have a list of topics concerning marriage for which I would like honest, studious, pious, knowledgeable Muslims to contribute to:

-Is the knot in your hand or mine?

What does it entail for the knot of marriage to be in one's hand? 2:237
Does this give one party certain precedence in regards to certain aspects of the union, like maybe initiation of dissolution of oaths, separation, divorce, reconciliation as well of course providing fully what one is able to according to his means for spouse and offspring's welfare?

-Marital Permission from bride's peoples

I see this as an imperative. Meaning eloping is not an option.

-Bridal Price

What is an appropriate sum in today's standards?
I recall int he Quran Musa worked 8-10 hajj seasons for his spouse's hand.
I have come to understand that hajj can be performed in any of the four sacred months, therefore one hajj period or season can be equivalent to four ashhurin/months. Therefore 8-10 hajj seasons would equate to about 3 years worth of work.
I could be wrong in this, but this sounds plausible to me, so far.
Is a suitable bridal price then around 3 years worth of wages?
Or, is it the maximum amount of savings that can be obtained from 3 years worth of wages?
Or could it be simply whatever price is determined between the two parties?

Indisputably there is a fair or acceptable price that should be given and it is obligatory, even if your poor. 4:25
....And whoever (is) not among you - able to afford to marry the free chaste [the] believing then (marry) from what possess[ed] your right hands of your girls - (of) the believers. ...So marry them with (the) permission (of) their family and give them their bridal due in a fair manner.

This idea is even highlighted in 24:33, describing how if one cannot afford the means for marriage they should abstain.
That was so to the point that a servant could even obtain his freedom and bridal price from his employer/patron if deemed worthy.
Meaning that there is no excuse this has to be paid to the bride one way or another.

And let be chaste those who (do) not find (means for) marriage until Allah enriches them from His Bounty. And those who seek the writing from (hose) whom possess your right hands, then give them (he) writing if you know in them any good and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you....

So folks what do you think in your humble opinions is a fair and acceptable price?


In the event that one of the parties wishes to dissolute the oaths, what is the proper process for such proceedings?

I understand it to be very detailed but I never sat down to actually assemble all the relevant verses and reason properly on how to carry out the dissolution nor assess the dynamics of the wait period, the finalization of the divorce and the provision for the spouse 

It is something that all should know and understand, because even though we all hope for the best, you cannot forcibly keep someone in a contract they no longer wish to remain bound to. It is then necessary, to understand the proper protocol and waiting period, to not oppress one's rights and be fair in treatment according to God's limits, so that we may not transgress them.

-What are actions that can qualify as sufficient for dissolution?

I believe they are highlighted in 4:34

-What are some actions that can qualify as sufficient for public punishment in the event of infidelity carried out publicly?

I believe they are highlighted in Surah 24

-If for some unbeknownst reason you were seduced into transgression and betrayed your spouse would you submit to the punishments prescribed in Surah 24?

Please take your time with all these

 :sun:O you who believe!
Please join me in my salat and pray with me. Let us Pray together for one another. The believers support one another. Some of us are going through trials, some of us need increasing guidance, some of us need more knowledge, some of us need determination, some of us need patience, some of us need to resist temptations. Let us remain united in that we recognize we are but fallible human beings and that we forgive each other when we wrong one another, let us seek light earnestly and remain humble in our quest for guidance. Let us use our hearts and minds in conjunction. Let us completely surrender to Allah together
If you know your Prayer then pray with me o my brothers! 

Glory be to You O Allah,
I seek refuge with You from the rejected shaytan
In the Name of Allah, The Ever-Gracious, The Ever-Merciful

My Lord cause me to enter a sound entrance and cause me to exit a sound exit
And grant me from Yourself an Authority Helping
Truth Has now arrived and falsehood has perished
For falsehood is bound to perish

All-Praise be to Allah Who Has never taken a son
Nor does He have a partner in The Dominion
Nor needs He any to protect Him out of weakness
Magnify Him with All-Magnificence!

Glory to my Lord The Most High!
Glory to my Lord The Most Great!

I testify there is no god except The God
The God, there is no god except Him!
He is the Ever-Living The Sustainer of All that exists!
I put my trust in the Lord of the worlds and sufficient for me is He!
Allah is our Lord!
Our Lord is Allah!

In the Name of Allah The Ever-Gracious The Ever-Merciful
All Praise and Thanks be to Allah, The Lord of the worlds
The Ever-Gracious The Ever-Merciful
Sovereign of The Day of the din
You we worship and You we ask for help
Guide us to The Straight Path
The Path of those of whom You have bestowed Your favors on
Not of those who have earned your wrath nor of those who go astray

In the Name of Allah The Ever-Gracious The Ever-Merciful
I seek refuge with The Lord of mankind
King of mankind
God of mankind
from the mischief of the whisperer who withdraws
the one who whispers in the hearts of mankind
among jinn and men

In the Name of Allah The Ever-Gracious The Ever-Merciful
I seek refuge with The Lord of The Day-Break
From the mischief of created things
From the mischief of darkness as its spreads
From the mischief of the whisperers in the knots
And from he mischief of the envious one as he envies

We make no distinction between any of His Messengers
We hear and we obey
We seek Your Forgiveness Our Lord and to You is The Final Return
Our Lord take us not to task if we forget or we err
Our Lord la not on us a burden like that which you played on those before us
Our Lord lay not on us that which not we have the strength to bear
Pardon us, forgive us and have mercy on us
You are our Protector, grant us victory over the unbelievers

We believe in it, the whole of it is from our Lord
Our Lord let not our hearts deviate now after that You have guided us
But grant us from Yourself Mercy for You are the Grantor of Infinite Bounty

Our Lord You are He that will gather mankind together against a Day about which there is no doubt
For Allah never fails in The Promise

Our Lord not in vain have You create this
Glory be to You!
Give us Salvation from the Punishment of the Fire
Indeed any whom You admit into the Fire truly You have covered with shame
And Never will the wrongdoers find any helpers.
Our Lord we have heard the call of one calling us to The Faith, that,
"Believe in Your Lord" So, we have believed
Our Lord forgive us our sins, remove from us our evil deeds and cause us to die with the righteous
Our Lord Grant us what You promised us through Your Messengers
And Save us from the shame on the Day of the Judgement for You Never break Your Promise

Our Lord forgive and have Mercy and You are The Best of those who show mercy
Our Lord avert from us the punishment Hell, indeed evil it is as an abode and a resting place
Our Lord grant onto us spouses and offspring who will be comfort of our eyes and give us the Grace to be to the righteous a leader

Our Lord upon You we put our Trust, to You do we turn and to You is The Final Return
Our Lord make us not a trial for the disbelievers, but forgive u our Lord for You are The All-Mighty, The All-Wise

Our Lord give us good in this life and give us good in The Hereafter and save us from the Punishment of The Fire
Our Lord indeed we have believed forgive us then our sins and save us from The Punishment of the Fire

All Praises and Thanks be to Allah The Lord of the worlds!

Be Honest in your response if you God you fear.
I am intersted in seeing the dynamic of the participants in this forum concerning their experience with The Reading.
I always emphasize that being familiarized with The Reading is of utter most importance.
I see certain members headed in a direction off a high cliff lead by a wolf in sheepskin, soon they will fall from a great height and birds will snatch them...
I as a scientist am hypothesizing that there is a correlation between those who are being lead, and the level of familiarity, exposure, firmness, understanding they have with Quran. The premise is that frequency with which one is exposed to the Quran determines their level of firmness and understanding.
Without firmness and understanding one can be easily deceived or swayed.

At least it would be interesting to know how the frequent posters or active members fare in reading of the Quran.

You are also free to actually expose yourself and if you wish explain your position or opinion

Many probably think since I advocate against using the Bible as a Book to judge with I must be unfamiliar with it.

Unfortunately it is the opposite it is because I am so familiar with it, that I am adamant about recognizing it is obsolete.

I will admit as a youth reading the Bible and its stories it inspired in me faith, but if my Lord had not protected me I could be worshipping idols right now and believing all the falsehoods and insults that are fabricated against pious man of God in this book!

Read for yourselves this list and grasp why it is impossible to claim that the current Bible is Allah’s unaltered Word.

1) God did not rest on 7th day

2) Giants from offspring of fallen angels. Really? Ok. (Not ok btw)

3) Noah’s wife and son were not saved with him on the arc from the deluge

4) Story of Nimrod and their insolence being the cause of language diversity

5) Abraham’s wife was the mother of both of his children (isaac and ishmael)

6) Abraham’s father was an enemy to him and disbeliever and did not leave with him and Lot, he almost had him burned and stoned!

7) Lot did not become a drunk and sleep with his own daughters as bible claims!!

8 ) Joseph’s master did not believe his wife over Joseph, furthermore a family member was witness

9) Joseph did not go to prison as a result of that first incident but due to a second plot of hand cutting

10) Joseph sends his brothers back home twice before revealing himself, unlike Bible claiming that after Judah speaks up and decides to remain in the city Joseph seeing his brothers have changed reveals himself… wrong

11) One important thing is that at this time the ruler of Egypt possessed title of king and not pharaoh, bible does not make this distinction

12) Bible describes Moses being given three signs initially while it was only two

13) Nine signs: rod-snake, white hand, “seized the people of Firaun with years”,  deficit of fruit, flood, locusts, lice, frogs, blood. No mention of gnats, flies, boils, hail, livestock, darkness nor first born plagues.

14) Aaron and Moses did not take credit for bringing water to the children of Israel out of the 12 springs from the rock in Meribah

15) Aaron did not give permission to worship golden calf nor did he build it, it was the Samiri;
Aaron actually tried to stop them but they were intent on killing him

16) The golden calf was grounded in to particles and cast into the sea but not necessarily to be actually made to drink by the children of Israel

17) Sabbath was not prescribed to the believers only to those who transgressed concerning it. Meaning those who invented lies and misinterpreted the Signs of Allah and claimed He rested on the seventh Day (instead of understanding it has He settled or established His Throne/Authority) in order to purchase small miserly gains in the life of the world (leisure)

18) Bible claims that Aaron died on a mountain and Moses was forbidden from reaching the
promised land because they had lied and took credit for the waters of Meribah. Moses and Aaron made it to the land

19) The Bible has confused the story of Gideon with Saul/Talut, Talut or Saul was the king who proclaimed to his men that Allah would test them by a river not Gideon

20) Saul was a good king and did not consult oracles nor did he try to kill David!

21) David and Solomon judged together concerning a field meaning that there was a coregency. Bible claims Solomon only comes to power as a teenager only after David dies. 

22) Solomon was not guilty of idol worship or marrying women who worshipped idols, nor did he have 1000s of wives come on really people?
The disbelieving rabbinic/talmud inventors tried to throw muck on the name of all the prophets tirelessly

23) The Bible just butchered the story of the queen of Sheba, Solomon was the one who initiated contact by account of the hoopoe and she offered him gifts which he never accepted.

24) Mary was not married to Joseph. There is no Joseph, it would defeat the purpose of bringing Mary and Jesus as a Sign if she was actually married. This is huge controversy.

25) The obsession with baby Jesus is an idolization and simultaneously a misportrayal of the importance of the miracle of talking baby Jesus

26) Quran says every prophet had wives and offspring so you better believe it Jesus had the same, instead, he is biblically portrayed as celibate yet in a conflicting close relationship with Mary Magdalene's character. The level of disrespect in this book amazes me.

27) Quran does not mention casting out demons as a thing ever to my knowledge. The Quran lists Isa’s performed miracles by the permission of Our Lord, the ever-lasting table spread as a festival, the healing of the leper and the blind, “the formation of clay into bird”(still trying to interpret this), and the raising of the dead but not ever casting out of demons

28) Finally Jesus was not crucified and certainly not killed by his enemies

29) The disciples and their followers were victorious over their enemies (They had militants)

30) God says that every man will taste the death and even tells Muhammad that all the messengers and believers before him died so Enoch being taken up and never seeing death is a fabrication, Jesus flesh and body ascending into heaven also a fabrication.

This is why we have the Quran, God’s Words establishing the Truth

I cannot speculate about the condition of the Previous Scripture at the time of the prophet, but what we have now is not congruent with the Truth in many parts.

Things were obviously edited.

Today one could not follow the Bible alone and be rightly guided

There are a few possibilities

1) The original scripture was referenced when assembling this collection of books and therefore some accounts seem similar at first glance although much alteration, manipulation and editing ensued

2) Actual parts of the original scripture are in there mixed up between man made fabrications

3) Although references of the originals might have been utilized, the entire present day book is fabricated by the hand of man

What is the nature of God? / I remember now why I am here!!!
« on: August 21, 2016, 05:03:21 PM »
I love Allah with all my heart and all my being, when Allah forgives me and favors me I feel His Love, Mercy and Grace and it surges my heart with humility, joy and gratitude!

I love Allah

I love Allah

I love Allah with all my being

I have found my Lord Infinitely Kind and Loving to me, even when I wronged myself and withheld The Faith

He overlooked my faults and held His Promise true to me!

I remember now why I am here to fulfill the end of my promise to Him

I give my life completely into servitude to my Lord

The One Who Has never been unkind to me in my supplication unto Him

Glorified is He! The Most Gracious, All-Loving!

I remember now why I am here

I honestly truly fear

distance from The Ever-Near

so to His Deen I adhere!

Praise be to God!

I cannot deny His Favor upon me

He completed His favor upon my forefathers and He has completed His Favor upon me 

therefore I will not be a supporter of the corrupters from wherever they come

I remember now why I am here!

my heart filled with joy and my eyes filled with tears

I truly LOVE ALLAH!!!! 


Do you guys know any awesome orphan charities?
I am looking for charities that spend more on the program and less on administration. I see a lot of top charities with Chief Executives that are already successful in other areas raking in 6 figure salaries. I really do not want my donations to contribute to feeding a rich CEO. That is against my beliefs the charities should not be a perpetual circulation among the rich and I see a trend. Although, it is a minuscule fracture of the funds, $100K-400K, is till a huge sum. Those are middle-income salaries generated off of charities. I wonder how ethical that is.

Anyway, not to get off-track I think it would be super-awesome if you all could drop links to charities you have done research on and consider to be the most beneficial to the targeted groups: in my case orphans and widows.

Actually priority list of charities would be:

1) Orphans and widows
2) World Hunger
3) poverty stricken (loan-indebted) families

I have used charitynavigator, charitywatch and guidestar. I have to say it seems very clear upfront but the fact that these organization themselves take donations to research worries me, their ratings may vary depending on the contributions from the non-profits they are auditing. I basically am not 100% convinced that these charity watch groups are the best methods for truly assessing what a good charity organization is.
If you have any suggestions or better methodologies please address that in your post along with the charities you believe are making the greatest impact for 1-3 above.


General Issues / Questions / Who should an American Muslim vote for?
« on: March 07, 2016, 10:49:54 AM »

Who should the musllimina who have a chance to vote in this American Presidential election vote for?
Who is the less evil choice?
Should a muslimina vote Democrat or Republican?
Bernie? Hillary? Kasick? Please no one say Trump... :nope:
Should a muslimina vote for any of these corrupt/ lying/ sinful politicians at all?


Okay, so I have a situation. For which I want to consult the muslimina in this forum. Those who uphold the salat and give zakat and in the Hereafter believe firmly. Those who believe in the seen and the unseen, and the Scripture all of it and follow that which was sent to the Seal of the Prophets: Muhammad.

47:2  And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Mohammed, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.

33:40  Mohammed is not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things. 

9:11  If they repent, and they hold the contact prayer, and they contribute towards purification, then they are your brothers in the system. We explain the revelations for a people who know.

I am only consulting my brothers. So please brothers hear what I have to say and respond to me not by that which is your opinion but strictly by your knowledge of the Book and evidence therefrom. Thank you. This is a matter that has been weighing on me for a while.
Please be patient over my long-winded post and advise me according to what Allah has revealed.
I am to the best of my knowledge the only Muslimin in my family. The rest would call themselves ?Christians?, which that is even questionable in some cases. I respect my parents and have affection towards my family members. If there is anything I can do to help them wile they are alive, I would not hesitate. The issue comes when they have deceased. My understanding is that I am not to support the disbelievers, those who have died disbelievers by ?supporting? or praying for them nor standing at their graves. I would not want to pray for any deceased regardless because it is their deeds alone that will determine their fate in the Hereafter not my prayer or eulogy. In fact, Allah says there is no intercession and when we take a look a 9:84, we understand there is no prayer or support for the disbelievers who have died:

Wala tusalli AAala ahadin minhum mata abadan wala taqum AAala qabrihi innahum kafaroo biAllahi warasoolihi wamatoo wahum fasiqoona
And not you pray for any of them who dies, ever, and not you stand by his grave. Indeed, they disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger, and died while they were defiantly disobedient.

The word Tusalli has been interpreted as pray. Let us check what the roots of this word mean in PRL:
ص ل و  = Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnify, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.
In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).
Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump

I believe 9:84 is forbidding both praying for and supporting of the deceased, in a form of tribute, eulogy, commendation or any other means to give backing(follow closely behind, tailing) towards the funeral proceedings, including being present at the funeral or sight of burial to commemorate the dead.  As of right now my understanding is that I am not give any kind of support towards the funeral of a deceased who has died as a disbeliever, whether they are siblings, parents, offspring, neighbors, relatives or strangers. This might sound cold to some, but this is my understanding.
If any of the mentioned above pass away as disbelievers and I would know, because I always invite them to the din and they scorn me or laugh while driving off shouting ?Jesus is God!?, or rush in my room while I?m reading Scripture in the middle of the night and tell me ?Jesus loves you!?
Am I to stand at the graves of these when they have denied and died? Or am I to even spend a penny towards their funerals? Or write a eulogy in their remembrance? My understanding is NO.
It might sound harsh because they are my family but pay attention to what the Quran says about relations with those who disbelieve even among your own people and families. Again I ask your advice by analyzing the Book not emotions or opinions.
Take a look what Ibrahim and his followers say to their own people:

O you who believe! (Do) not take My enemies and your enemies (as) allies offering them love while they have disbelieved in what came to you of the truth, driving out the Messenger and yourselves because you believe in Allah, your Lord. If you come forth (to) strive in My way and (to) seek My Pleasure. You confide to them love, but I Am most knowing of what you conceal and what you declare. And whoever does it among you then certainly he has strayed (from the) straight path.
If they gain dominance over you, they would be to you enemies and extend against you their hands and their tongues with evil, and they desire that you would disbelieve.
Never will benefit you your relatives and not your children (on the) Day (of) the Resurrection. He will judge between you. And Allah of what you do (is) All-Seer.
Indeed, (there) is for you an example good in Ibrahim and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we (are) disassociated from you and from what you worship besides Allah. We have denied you, and has appeared between us and between you enmity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah Alone." Except (the) saying (of) Ibrahim to his father, "Surely I ask forgiveness for you, but not I have power for you from Allah of anything. Our Lord, upon You we put our trust, and to You we turn, and to You (is) the final return.
Our Lord, (do) not make us a trial for those who disbelieve, and forgive us, our Lord. Indeed You [You] (are) the All-Mighty, the All-Wise."
Certainly, (there) is for you in them an example good for (he) who is hopeful (in) Allah and the Day the Last. And whoever turns away, then indeed, Allah, He, (is) Free of need, the Praiseworthy.
Perhaps Allah [that] will put between you and between those (to) whom you have been enemies, among them love. And Allah (is) All-Powerful. And Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

We can understand that the best example concerning opposing disbelieving relatives is the example of Ibrahim and his followers. Although it is suggested by some that this is concerning those who expel and fight the believers in the Way of Allah. It is true that if Allah wills He will put affection between those who we have enmity with, but Allah is the only One who can do that. And since we read in the ayaats prior to 60:7 that Ibrahim and his followers have claimed there was hatred between them for ever until they believe in Allah alone, we understand that Allah could bring love amongst them all by guiding those who repent and turn to Him. It is not a human effort, it is by God?s will.

Similarly there is a sort of enmity between me and my relatives, whenever they get the occasion at every turn they attempt to smite me with their tongues concerning my system and belief in Allah or mock me. Examples from my father, ? You just want to join ISIS? ?I?ll report you to the Government?, He sees terror events and turns up the volume and then yells ?Is it God you are worshipping? You are only worshipping satan?, mind you, my father out of his own rage and perhaps intoxication once stated he worships satan. My mother will buy pork and cook and if I make a comment and ask what kind of meat it is, they make my life miserable. Then she claims she?s mad and since I do not associate with what they worship, I should not eat what she cooks anyway. I do not want demonize my parents, they are certainly kind to me in many aspects and cared for me and raised me, who knows perhaps they may repent but as of now, deep down my belief is an issue for them. My constant reminder to them of God, (not even Islam) causes huge arguments. I will lower my wing of humility and be kind to them and try my best not to disrespect them as long as they are alive and with me and obey them as long as it is not against that which I have no authority for. I love them,  I call them to Allah and the salvation, while they invite me that I should disbelieve and to the Hellfire, so do they really love me?

O you who believe[d]! (Do) not take (as) intimates other than yourselves, not they will spare you (any) ruin. They wish what distresses you. Indeed, (has become) apparent the hatred from their mouths, and what conceals their breasts (is) greater. Certainly We made clear for you the Verses, if you were (to use) reason.
Lo! You are those, you love them but not they love you and you believe in the Book - all of it. And when they meet you they say, "We believe." And when they are alone they bite at you the finger tips (out) of [the] rage. Say, Die in your rage. Indeed. Allah (is) All-Knowing of what (is in) the breasts."
If touches you a good, it grieves them and if strikes you misfortune, they rejoice at it. And if you are patient and fear (Allah), not will harm you their plot (in) anything. Indeed, Allah, of what they do (is) All-Encompassing.

Take a look at how the believers should feel about their disbelieving relatives who oppose them:

58:22 You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Day the Last loving (those) who oppose Allah and His Messenger even if they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred. Those - He has decreed within their hearts faith and supported them with a spirit from Him. And He will admit them (to) Gardens, flow from underneath it the rivers, will abide forever in it. Allah is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. Those (are the) party (of) Allah. No doubt! Indeed, (the) party (of) Allah, they (are) the successful ones.

9:23 O you who believe! (Do) not take your fathers and your brothers (as) allies if they prefer [the] disbelief over [the] belief. And whoever takes them as allies among you, then those [they] (are) the wrongdoers.
9:24 Say, "If are your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your spouses, and your relatives, and wealth that you have acquired and the commerce, you fear a decline (in) it and the dwellings you delight (in) it (are) more beloved to you than Allah, and His Messenger and striving in His way, then wait until Allah brings His Command. And Allah (does) not guide the people - the defiantly disobedient."

Some will argue that these ayaas are concerning those fighting the believers and that allies refers to consultants, protectors, defenders, advisors, hence you would not want to confide your secrets or put your trust even with a relative who opposes you.
The point though is that in the citations of surah 60 above. The believers and the disbelievers at the time of Ibrahim were not in my knowledge at war ( although they did try to burn Abraham), in fact later on Abraham, Lut and their followers leave out of their own will, so I do not think they were expelled either. Nonetheless, they disassociated from them because of their probable constant disbelief and denial.

Surah 58:22, speaks of those opposing and uses the word hadda
Ha-Dal-Dal = To define a limit, determine (a thing), punish (a culprit), prevent, thrust back, throw back, sharpen. To hinder/impede/restrain, to debar or withhold or forbid/prohibit, to interdict, repel/turn away/avert, inflict castigation or punishment, distinguish or separate one thing from another by a mark or note, edge or sharpen a knife, look sharply or intently or attentively at a person or thing, to be sharp [or effective] in respect of eloquence or intellect or understanding or anger.

We can take from this that anyone who does any of the above is opposing the system. It is not only pertaining to physical violence.

In 9:24 we can see that the relationship with these opposing relatives is what is preventing the believers to strive in the way of Allah because of their fear that if they will lose their wealth, commerce/trade and properties which may be interconnected with the relatives and which may be lost due to rift or war.

Let us focus on parents. The Quran conveys much about being good to parents.
Obey your parents so long as they are with you and love among the relatives:

17:23 And has decreed your Lord, that (do) not worship except Him Alone and to the (be) good. Whether reach with you the old age one of them, or both of them, then (do) not say to both of them a word of disrespect and (do) not repel them, but speak to them a word noble.
17:24 And lower to them (the) wing (of) humility (out) of [the] mercy and say, "My Lord! Have mercy on both of them as they brought me up (when I was) small."

The above pleading in 17:24 is only applicable if the parents are also muslimina not if they are disbelievers. We can see in Surah 60 how God tells us to not take Abraham?s example in pleading for mercy for his disbelieving father.

29:8 And We have enjoined (on) man goodness to his parents, but if they both strive against you to make you associate with Me what not you have of it any knowledge, then (do) not obey both of them. To Me (is) your return, and I will inform you about what you used (to) do.

31:14 And We have enjoined (upon) man for his parents - carried him his mother (in) weakness upon weakness, and his weaning (is) in two years that "Be grateful to Me and to your parents; towards Me (is) the destination.
31:15 But if they strive against you on that you associate partners with Me what not you have of it any knowledge, then (do) not obey both of them. But accompany them in the world (with) kindness, and follow (the) path (of him) who turns to Me. Then towards Me (is) your return, then I will inform you of what you used (to) do?

Now focusing on 31:15, does this kindness extend to even after their death if they were disbelievers?

42:23 That (is of) which Allah gives glad tidings (to) His slaves - those who believe and do righteous deeds. Say, "Not I ask you for it any payment except the love among the relatives." And whoever earns any good, We increase for him therein good. Indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, All-Appreciative.

Same as above, does this love extend after their death if they were disbelievers?

Thinking about all that was laid out before, although it may be to some a stretch to correlate disbelieving relatives with those who oppose against Allah and His Messenger, we have seen in the ayaats presented above that opposing does not solely pertain to physical violence. It is therefore not of an illogical nature to claim that those who believe should not be dependent upon(ally themselves with, confide in, trust in etc.) nor love those who oppose them vehemently among the peoples including their relatives.

I have put a huge portion of Surah 9 because leading up to ayaat 84 Allah refers to ?them? and unless you freshen your memory and start from earlier in the Surah you might lose track of who ?them? is. Allah is mainly referring to the hypocrites when He uses they and them in these ayaats. The hypocrites are those who are with the believers who basically pretend to be believers. It may be that they had believed before, but they entertained doubt and desired vanities until it led them to the disbelief. These hypocrites were essentially a part of their group but ?secretly? opposed them. These could have vary well been parents, siblings, children, neighbors of believers, even spouses. In fact Allah tells the prophet that he can ask forgiveness for them 70 times but He would never forgive them. Allah essentially explains the hypocrites in detail as to their thoughts, actions and behaviors and then in 9:84 is where He commands as He commands.
Please be patient with my request of consultation and patiently re-read the portion of the surah posted below, so that we are on the same page. I pasted the free-minds version because it is easier copy and paste, but feel free to use any word-for-word translation that suits you and holds true to meaning. Again, thanks for understanding.

9:38  O you who believe, what is wrong with you when you are told: ?Mobilize in the cause of God,? you become heavy on the earth. Have you become content with this worldly life over the Hereafter? The enjoyment of this worldly life compared to the Hereafter is nothing. 

9:39  If you do not mobilize, then He will punish you with a painful retribution, and He will replace you with another people, and you do not bother Him in the least. God is capable of all things. 

9:40  If you do not help him, then God has helped him. When those who rejected expelled him, he was one of only two, and when they were in the cave, he said to his friend: ?Do not grieve, for God is with us.? So God sent down His tranquility over him and He supported him with soldiers that you did not see, and He made the word of those who rejected be the lowest, and the word of God be the highest. God is Noble, Wise. 

9:41  Mobilize in light gear or heavy gear, and strive with your money and lives in the cause of God. That is best if only you knew. 

9:42  If it were a near gain, or an easy journey, they would have followed you; but the distance was too much for them. And they will swear by God: ?If we could have, we would have gone with you.? They destroy themselves, and God knows they are liars. 

9:43  God pardons you; why did you give them leave before it became clear to you who are truthful, and who are lying? 

9:44  Those who believe in God and the Last Day will not ask leave. They strive with their money and their lives. And God is aware of the righteous. 

9:45  Those who ask leave are the ones who do not believe in God and the Last Day, and their hearts are in doubt. In their doubts they are wavering. 

9:46  And if they had wanted to go then they would have taken all precautions for it, but God disliked them coming forth, so He made them lag behind, and they were told: ?Stay with those who have stayed.? 

9:47  Had they gone with you they would have added nothing except disruption, and they would have hurried about seeking to cause for you an ordeal; and there are some among you who listen to them. God is aware of the wicked. 

9:48  They wanted to cause an ordeal from before, and they turned matters upside down for you until the truth came and the command of God was revealed, while they hated it. 

9:49  And from them are those who say: ?Grant me leave, and do not test me.? But it is in the test that they have indeed fallen, and Hell is surrounding the rejecters. 

9:50  When any good befalls you, it upsets them, and if any bad befalls you, they say: ?We have taken our precaution beforehand,? and they turn away happy. 

9:51  Say: ?Nothing will befall us except what God has decreed for us, He is our Patron.? And in God the believers shall put their trust. 

9:52  Say: ?You can only expect for us one of two good things; while we wait for you to be afflicted by God with a retribution from Him, or by our hands. So wait, we are with you waiting.? 

9:53  Say: ?Spend willingly or unwillingly, it will not be accepted from you. You are a wicked people.? 

9:54  And what prevented what they would spend from being accepted from them except that they rejected God and His messenger, and they do not attend the contact prayer except lazily, and they do not spend except unwillingly. 

9:55  So do not be impressed by their wealth or children; God only wishes to punish them with it in the worldly life, and so that their souls will be taken while they are rejecters. 

9:56  And they swear by God that they are with you, while they are not with you; but they are a people who are indecisive.
9:57  If they find a refuge, or cave, or any place to enter, they will run to it while they are in haste. 

9:58  And from them are those who criticize you regarding the charities. If they are given from it, they are content; and if they are not given from it, they become enraged! 

9:59  And if they had only been content with what God and His messenger had given them, and they had said: ?God suffices; God will give us from His bounty, and His messenger; it is towards God that we desire.? 

9:60  Indeed, the charities are for the poor, and the needy, and those who work to collect them, and those whose hearts have been united, and to free the slaves, and those in debt, and in the cause of God, and the wayfarer. A duty from God, and God is Knowledgeable, Wise. 

9:61  And from them are those who harm the prophet, and they say: ?He only listens!? Say: ?What he listens to is best for you. He believes in God, and he has trust for the believers, and he is a mercy to those who believe among you.? And those who harm the messenger of God will have a painful retribution. 

9:62  They swear to you by God in order to please you; while God and His messenger are more worthy to be pleased if they are believers. 

9:63  Did they not know that whoever is hostile towards God and His messenger, he will have the fire of Hell, abiding therein. Such is the greatest humiliation. 

9:64  The hypocrites fear that a chapter will be sent down which will expose what is in their hearts. Say: ?Mock, for God will bring out what you fear.? 

9:65  And if you ask them they say: ?We were only jesting and playing.? Say: ?In God and His revelations and His messenger you were mocking?? 

9:66  Do not apologize, for you have rejected after your belief. If We pardon one group from you, We will punish another group. That is because they were criminals. 

9:67  The hypocrite males and the hypocrite females, they are to each other. They order vice and prohibit good, and they close their hands. They forgot God, so He will forget them; indeed, the hypocrites are the wicked. 

9:68  God has promised the hypocrite males and the hypocrite females and the rejecters a Fire in Hell, in it they will abide; it will be enough for them. And God has cursed them and they will have a lasting retribution. 

9:69  Like those before them, they were more powerful than you, and with more wealth and children. They enjoyed their lives, and you enjoyed your lives as those before you enjoyed their lives; and you jested as they jested. They had their works crumble in this world and the next, and they were the losers. 

9:70  Did the news not come to them of those before them, the people of Noah and ?Aad and Thamud. And the people of Abraham, and the dwellers of Midyan, and those overthrown. Their messengers came to them with clarity; it was not God who wronged them, but it was themselves that they wronged. 

9:71  And the believing males and the believing females, they are allies to one another. They order good and prohibit vice, and they hold the contact prayer, and they contribute towards purification and they obey God and His messenger. God will have mercy on them; God is Noble, Wise. 

9:72  God has promised the believing males and the believing females estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein, and pleasing homes in gardens of delight. And the acceptance from God is the most important; such is the great triumph. 

9:73  O prophet, strive against the rejecters and the hypocrites and be firm against them. Their dwelling is Hell, what a miserable destiny! 

9:74  They swear by God that they did not say it, while they had said the word of rejection, and they rejected after they had submitted, and they were obsessed with what they could not possess; and they could not find any fault except that God and His messenger had enriched them from His bounty. If they repent it is better for them, and if they turn away, then God will punish them severely in this world and the next. They will not have on the earth any ally or supporter. 

9:75  And from them are those who pledged to God: ?If He gives us from His bounty, then we will believe and we will be among the upright.? 

9:76  So when He gave them from His bounty, they became stingy with it, and they turned away while they were averse.
9:77  Thus, hypocrisy follows in their hearts until the Day they meet Him; that is for breaking what they promised God, and for what they were lying. 

9:78  Did they not know that God knows their secrets, and their private counsel, and that God is the Knower of all the unseen? 

9:79  Those who criticize the volunteers among the believers in charities; that they only have their efforts to give; so they mock them. God mocks them, and they will have a painful retribution. 

9:80  Whether you seek forgiveness for them, or do not seek forgiveness for them. If you seek forgiveness for them seventy times, God will not forgive them. That is because they have rejected God and His messenger; and God does not guide the wicked people. 

9:81  Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind the messenger of God, and they disliked striving with their money and lives in the cause of God; and they say: ?Do not mobilize in the heat.? Say: ?The fire of Hell is much hotter,? if they could only understand. 

9:82  Let them laugh a little, and cry a lot, a recompense for what they have earned. 

9:83  So, if God sends you back to a group of them, and they ask your permission to come with you, then say: ?You will not come with me ever; nor will you fight any enemy with me. You had accepted staying behind the first time, so stay with those who remain behind.? 

Wala tusalli AAala ahadin minhum mata abadan wala taqum AAala qabrihi innahum kafaroo biAllahi warasoolihi wamatoo wahum fasiqoona
And not you pray for any of them who dies, ever, and not you stand by his grave. Indeed, they disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger, and died while they were defiantly disobedient. 

I am not going to support the hypocrites and rejecters who have died as disbelievers even among my family by praying for them, writing and delivering an eulogy, participating in the funeral service, especially by participating in financing the funeral costs, standing by their grave and commemorating their lives and ?achievements?.

Recently my grandpa passed away my mother asked me to help her write an eulogy, I have never met the man, nor heard his voice, nor know his name, nor has he ever pen-palled me or come to visit me EVER. Furthermore, he basically abandoned my mother when she was a teen and tended to his other family. My mother had not seen him for nearly 30 years before he passed. I obviously do not hold this man in any esteem, rather the opposite. He neglected my mother and us. He always visited his other family and grandchildren and called them and conversed with them frequently on the phone. I literally have nothing nice to say about him. I do not want to support such a man in anyway. I am also convinced he was not a muslimina. I am vehemently opposed to supporting anything in relation to this funeral, including helping my mother write this eulogy. I feel it would violate the command in 9:84. Therefore, I do not feel bad when I told my mother I could not help her. I cannot obey her on associating with Allah what I have not been given any authority on.

On the other hand, in the event this occurs to someone who is closer to me, a sibling or a parent, how do I break it to them that I cannot support them because they have died as disbelievers?

What do you think of these questions O brothers and sisters?


This Thread is in response to SAbboushi regarding salat times

Thanks very much for your message.

If you are willing, can you share your thoughts on what these verses mean?  Beginning and ending of day as defined by the sun, or beginning and ending of day as defined by when I wake up and when I go to sleep, regardless of whether it is light or dark outside?

I've shared my current thinking/questions below in case you have the time or inclination to respond.

btw, if you don't mind answering, do you work for HP?  I have been a loyal HP user since the mid 1980s (typing this on an ENVY 17 laptop)

Thanks again for getting back to me and may peace be with you too--

Is the only possible meaning [three times a day: dawn, sunset and dusk] = ?time-restricted regarding the behavior of the sun??

Maybe 24:58 argues against such thoughts? 24:58 seems clear in meaning ?dawn? and ?evening?? as long as the only meaning for ?Fajr? is ?dawn?.  Can one ask ?Have you had your fajr meal and mean ?morning meal?, even though one is in Alaska at 9am and it has been night for the past month??

To continue: what does someone who lives at the poles call the period of time from their waking until their sleeping?  Do they call it ?day?, even though there may be no sun?  Do they call the end of their ?day? ?the evening?, even though it may be light outside?  I know I do. 

In parts of Alaska, I understand it remains day for almost 3 months during the summer and it remains night for a little over 2 months during the winter? so what does this mean for salat?  Since 24:58 qualifies with [these three are times of privacy for you], it seems that if one chooses to pray in Alaska at 5am and 10pm regardless of what the sun is doing, that these times should still mark the times of privacy for me mentioned in the verse, no?  I would argue that an alternative is: pray on the first day of summer when the sun comes up (and others should give me privacy until after the prayer)? and then I don?t pray for three months until the sun goes down? and so I don?t get any privacy for three months?

And as I think of it, if ?evening salat? means ?as I am preparing to end my day?, then I would argue that it is at THAT time that I desire my privacy.  But if the sun sets at 5pm and I am not ready to retire for the evening, then what is the sense in arbitrarily changing the rules of privacy because the sun went down?  24:58 to me seems to be qualifying with an EXPLANATION as to why privacy makes sense, no?  It seems that the explanation in 24:58 may be related to taking our garments off, which if that is the case, I wouldn?t be doing at 5pm just because the sun went down.  So is it possible that fajr and isha mean ?My morning? and ?My evening??, so now the behavior of the sun is irrelevant?

Still many questions in my mind?

I recommend you researching further what I am conveying to you by reading a word by word translation with arabic transliteration so that you can ascertain via aid of lexicons that the arabic words are congruent with the meaning proposed.
I am sure you are aware of, project root list, lane's lexicon, lughat al Quran and etcetera if you can read Arabic.

There are two definite constant prayers that are characterized by the twilight hours, these two prayers are the only named prayers in the Quran besides Al-Wusta Salat. They are the Dawn Prayer and the Evening Prayer of Surah 24:58.
The middle or most important prayer is exactly between these two. A lot of people think that it is the noon prayer. Because they take the Dawn as the initial prayer of the Day and it would seem that noontime cuts the daylight hours in half.
This notion is incorrect though, because Allah tells us in 24:58 the prayer times. Noon in 24:58 has been pointed out as a time for privacy after garments have been removed, implying time for rest or nudity, without mentioning a prayer in correlation to this astronomical time point.
What most are failing to realize is that Allah's command is to establish prayer at the approaches of the night. Meaning near the times of the night. The daytime is for occupation otherwise. Look at this following ayaat. The Words of your Lord are clear.

O you who wraps himself!
Stand (in) the night, except a little,
Half of it, or lessen from it a little,
Or add to it, and recite the Quran (with) measured rhythmic recitation.
Indeed, We will cast upon you a Word heavy.
Indeed, (the) rising (at) the night, it (is) very hard and most potent and more suitable (for) Word.
Indeed, for you in the day (is) occupation prolonged.
And remember (the) name (of) your Lord and devote yourself to Him (with) devotion.

Taking into account that the command is to establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approaches of the night, and to stand in the night and many other ayaahs listed below which I will comment on later on, we can see that if we visualize the cycle of day and night as a clock (with two hands being sun and moon) a portion of the "day" for one fixed location is illuminated by the sun while for the other portion it is covered by darkness. The portion of darkness has to be considered for times of prayer not the portion of daylight.
In fact, if we consider sunset first, the middle prayer would fall somewhere between after dusk or darkness has completely set in and before dawn. Some call it the midnight prayer and during occasional times of the year the middle of the period of darkness is around midnight but obviously depending on time zones and daylight savings it may vary.
To my understanding others also call this prayer the night vigil and that is perfectly in coalescence with the Al-Wusta Salat as long as it is within the approaches of the night, where twilight has dissipated. It can be in my understanding any time between that.

There is no disputing about the dawn prayer and evening (aisha)prayer, it is clearly detailed in 11:114 and 17:78 and also 24:58, and also by clear daily astronomical twilight events.

But, there should be no dispute about the third prayer either as Surahs and Ayaats convey to us about the believers being those who rise up to pray in the hours of the night or the hours before dawn=al bishari and little of the night sleep. 3:17, 51:15-17

Some think of it as additional, but I do not know whether additional can be interpreted as optional.
I do not think the prophet would opt out of doing this, and neither those with him.

The three following surahs are definitive about the times of prayer.
The first two are detailed and descriptive.
The third one names the prayers by name.

And establish the prayer (at the) two ends (of) the day and (at) the approach of the night. Indeed, the good deeds remove the evil deeds. That (is) a reminder for those who remember.

Note that for this ayaat the word translated as approach should be approaches = wazulafan it is masculine plural.
In this Ayaat our Lord is telling us to establish prayer at the two ends of the day. The two ends of the day are marked by sunrise and sunset. The phrase and at the approaches of the night reinforces the notion of at least two prayers being at the ends of the day that are near the approaches of the night (sunrise and sunset), as well as the general time of prayer being taken at the approaches of the night, hence including the middle night prayer which is within or confined by these approaches.

Establish the prayer, at the decline (of) the sun till (the) darkness (of) the night and Quran at dawn, indeed, the Quran (at) the dawn is ever witnessed.
And from the night arise from sleep for prayer with it (as) additional for you; it may be that will raise you your Lord (to) a station praiseworthy.

Here are the specifics for the times of prayer marking the two ends of the day first: evening(sunset) and morning/dawn(sunrise). Our Lord demonstrates the beginning and the end, then points at the time between those two: "midnight". He instructs to arise from sleep. This signifies sometime in the middle of the night. If one wishes to keep true to Al-Wusta they would probably seek to arise at a time close to the exact middle of the period of darkness.

O you who believe! Let ask your permission those whom possess your right hands and those who (have) not reached puberty among you (at) three times, before (the) prayer (of) dawn, and when you put aside your garments at noon and after (the) prayer (of) night. (These) three (are) times of privacy for you. Not on you and not on them any blame after that (as) moving about among you, some of you among others. Thus Allah makes clear for you the Verses, and Allah (is) All-Knower, All-Wise.

I think it is pretty obvious at this point why there is no mention of a salat at noon when two other prayer-times are mentioned. Prayers take place at the ends of the day and at the approaches of the night, exactly as we are instructed. Here we see Dawn Prayer and Evening(near sunset) Prayer both near times of night.
Think about the times of privacy more clearly. Allah makes clear for you the Ayaats. What is before the Dawn Prayer and after the Evening Prayer?
Yes, you have guessed it. Time for sleep. Settling of complete darkness. But for the believers a portion of it is to rise and recite the Quran at the time of Al-Wusta the "Middle" Prayer.
This entire period for night after evening prayer window is implied as a time for privacy.


The next are Ayaats related to glorifying at general times like morning and evening and rising up at night.
The Ayaats conveying the establishment of the prayer were the above ones.
A lot of people make a problem for themselves by trying to combine the commands from the previous Surahs to the following ayaats.
I think it is advisable to acquaint oneself properly to the words used in the commands. Establishing is only used in 11:114 and 17:78, while the following surahs denote "glorify" at so and so.
Not to totally disregard the notion that these times are in alignment with the prayer times, but many also use these following ayaahs to add additional invented/ man-made prayer-times.

The patient and the truthful and the obedient and those who spend and those who seek forgiveness [in the] before dawn.

So be patient over what they say and glorify with praise (of) your Lord before (the) rising (of) the sun and before its setting; and from (the) hours (of) the night, and glorify (at the) ends (of) the day so that you may be satisfied.

So glory be to Allah when you reach the evening and when you reach the morning.
And for Him (are) all praises in the heavens and the earth and (at) night waheena tuthhiroona.

A lot of people are under the impression that waheena tuthhiroona means when you are at noon but if you analyze the skeleton of the word in Arabic even a novice can deduce that the translation "you are at noon" does not fit for this verb form. I am not extremely familiar with the Arabic grammar but it seems to me that tuzhiruna is used as a verb and cannot imply noon, if so noon would have been used as a noun, as it has in other ayaats.

Look at the concordances for the verb form(IV) of ẓā hā rā (ظ ه ر) :

Verb (form IV) - to make apparent, to reveal
(9:33:8) liyuẓ'hirahu   to manifest it   هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَىٰ وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ
(28:48:22) taẓāharā   supporting each other   قَالُوا سِحْرَانِ تَظَاهَرَا وَقَالُوا إِنَّا بِكُلٍّ كَافِرُونَ
(30:18:8) tuẓ'hirūna   you are at noon   وَلَهُ الْحَمْدُ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَعَشِيًّا وَحِينَ تُظْهِرُونَ
(40:26:15) yuẓ'hira   he may cause to appear   إِنِّي أَخَافُ أَنْ يُبَدِّلَ دِينَكُمْ أَوْ أَنْ يُظْهِرَ فِي الْأَرْضِ الْفَسَادَ
(48:28:8) liyuẓ'hirahu   that He (may) make it prevail   هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَىٰ وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ
(61:9:8) liyuẓ'hirahu   to make it prevail   هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَىٰ وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ
(66:3:11) wa-aẓharahu   and made it apparent   فَلَمَّا نَبَّأَتْ بِهِ وَأَظْهَرَهُ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ عَرَّفَ بَعْضَهُ
(72:26:4) yuẓ'hiru   He reveals   عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا

Not once is it used as noon except for in 30:18. It is a devise of the shaytan to deviate those who will deviate.
It is merely a repetition of what we see throughout the Quran, Allah telling us that He knows whats hidden/concealed by night and what is apparent revealed by the day. In addition we have the parallel phrase before this in ayaah 17. evening, morning/ night(concealment/hidden) /revealing or apparent (nature of the day).

So be patient over what they say and glorify (the) praise (of) your Lord, before (the) rising (of) the sun and before the setting,
And of the night glorify Him and after the prostration.

Indeed, the righteous (will be) in Gardens and springs,
Taking what their Lord has given them. Indeed, they were before that good-doers.
They used to little of the night [what] sleep
And in the hours before dawn they would ask forgiveness,

What could cause the righteous to sleep little by night. It is because prayer is generally around the hours of the night. Especially what causes the little sleep of night is arising for the Salat Al-Wusta/ Middle (of Night) [Mid-Night] Prayer.
Here we see again al-bishari, hours of the night/ or before dawn.
God's Book has parts which are oft-repeated, those are the foundation of the Book.

So be patient, for (the) Command (of) your Lord, for indeed, you (are) in Our Eyes. And glorify (the) praise (of) your Lord when you arise,
And of the night, glorify Him, and after the stars.


Again here we see the arising at night. I am not too keen on the situation with the starry sky during these hours, but I do know most stars do appear to set. It is possible that this ayaah is referring to arising at night for the Middle Night Prayer, which is denoted by setting of the stars in the sky OR referring to both arising at night and at dawn when the stars are for sure set and no longer visible.

Regardless of where you are on the plane the sun appears to rise and set everywhere. There has not come a day in which the sun or moon was lost track of in any particular region of the world.

Do not dwell on what a person in different regions of the world might be faced with. Focus on what you experience.
I do not want to delve into too much of what has reached me, but there is strong indication that at least no one lives on the "poles" because there is no such thing as poles. The earth is a plane not a planet. The sun and moon are on an orbit above and around in circular-like  perhaps elliptical paths/pattern. Hence the sun from a person's vantage point crosses every horizon every sky, despite whether condition and visibility it always covers its path. Even in the heliocentric model such is the same, although there are huge logical fallacies in the notion that the earth is tilted hence south pole always exposed to sun rays yet cold as the north and colder than the equator.
There are many questionable facts about the heliocentric theory indeed.
Which gives people misconception about simple instructions like the time of prayer because of the implications that the earth being a globe and like you have proposed variations in daylight times.
It is a complete farce, but perhaps I will relate to you on another occasion how much of a farce it is and how it compromises the deen as folks that live in geographic regions where they observe the sun and moons cross the sky normally begin to doubt as to what time they are instructed to pray because of the suspicion that a human being they have never met might be living in a region of the world they have never been in which assumedly the sun goes in hiding for months.
It is true places near the "North Pole" experience midnight suns and longer daylight because they are near the center of the earth for a planar model and pole for globular model. Regardless the sun is still traversing across the sky from east to west. The sky does get somewhat darker although it is true it is considerably still bright I must admit.
The point is that you will know the midnight sun because it is at its lowest point and can technically recognize the others by slight twilight.

Although, I do not think you can just arbitrarily say that someone's morning is subjective. It is universal and there was alway the use of time-keeping and positioning in the sky of the celestial bodies to infer time.
The morning prayer and evening prayer cannot be subjective though, as they have been instructed for specific time periods as we see in 11:114 and 17:78.

Since I do not live in such regions of the world I am going to follow what my Lord has commanded, to the best of my abilities and I will leave it to Allah to guide whosoever is in those regions if He wills to the Straight Path.
It is each individual's duty to fulfill the salat according to their means and what they are given!

Although I will point out that the ends of the day are still recognizable even in these regions as the sun reaches the two extremes: east and west. In fact I suspect that if one faced north and they could see the sun above horizon then it is near approach of the night and the sky would be slightly darker and seemingly if they faced south and witness the sun "emerging" from the farthest extreme to the east then it is morning time and the sky would gradually slightly brighten.
If you have an imagination, it should not be too hard to picture that if you are staring directly out at your extremes east and west you'd expect to see the sun denoting sunrise and sunset regardless of the brightness of the day.
Remember 11:114 says to establish at the two ends of the day.
I am also quite confident that if one is observant they can see the slight shift in brightness even in these regions.
So it may be that in compensation for having such long periods of day, hence work and so forth, these people have shorter periods of night, hence their required time lessened.
In the end Allah knows best, He measures all things in numbers and has set the balance in truth.

I put my trust in the Lord of the Worlds, Sufficient for me is Allah, Allah is our Lord, Our Lord is Allah!


P.S. I will post this with your questions on a thread for responses from others

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