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Introduce Yourself / Re: My journey to islam
« on: January 24, 2007, 06:57:35 AM »
Salaam sister zerda,


Hi everyone!

I found your forum about half a year ago and finally decided to join. Here's my story:


Interesting journey ...


Hadith Discussions / Re: Hadith on How to Urinate.
« on: January 18, 2007, 03:19:52 PM »
I'll have to contact my "marja3"  at Sistani's office and check it out.. I'll get back to you..Stick around

LOL  :rotfl:

Straight to the point Pazuzu  ;)

Introduce Yourself / Re: My situation.
« on: January 18, 2007, 02:19:48 PM »
Salam sister Wannabefree, all,
as-salaamu alaikum to all of you!

I also used that argument, that ulema is only human, but then they say that if ulema sais something right and good, they will get a double reward for it from Allaah swt, and if they say something wrong and not good, they will get half the reward anyway...
Actually, when talking about the so called ulamas, the first question should be: Who give the title ulama? Sunnis, shias, salafis, christians, jews all have their own ulamas.

Regarding this, Allah has given examples to learn from the quran:

9:31 They took their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god but He, be He glorified for what they set up.

Indeed ...

7:1 Alif. Lam. Mim.
7:2 A DIVINE WRIT has been bestowed from on high upon thee -and let there be no doubt about this in thy heart-in order that thou mayest warn [the erring] thereby, and [thus] admonish the believers:
7:3 "Follow what has been sent down unto you by your Sustainer, and follow no masters other than Him. How seldom do you keep this in mind!

You brought up the example of drinking urine, and I don't know for sure, but my husband said there is one hadith where Muhammed saws is drinking milk and a fly falls into it, and someone(I don't remember who) wants to take the fly away from the milk, but Muhammed saws sais one wing of the fly does bad, but the other wing makes the bad disappear, and then he drank the fly.
I know that hadith. It must be this one:

Shahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."

And one morning the same thing happend to my husband, and he drank it... I told him not to, but he said its sunnah to do so. He didn't get any kisses that day ;)
LOL ...  ;)

Does he lick somebody else's fingers (not your fingers - LOL) after meal?

Shahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 65, Number 366:

    Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

    The Prophet said, 'When you eat, do not wipe your hands till you have licked it, or had it licked by somebody else."

Bring up also this hadith and ask him: "Will you let me get suckled by grown up men when they come to our house?":

Shahih Malik Muwatta Book 30, Number 30.2.12:

    Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab that he was asked about the suckling of an older person. He said, ''Urwa ibn az-Zubayr informed me that Abu Hudhayfa ibn Utba ibn Rabia, one of the companions of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, who was present at Badr, adopted Salim (who is called Salim, the mawla of Abu Hudhayfa) as the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, adopted Zayd ibn Haritha. He thought of him as his son, and Abu Hudhayfa married him to his brother's sister, Fatima bint al-Walid ibn Utba ibn Rabia, who was at that time among the first emigrants. She was one of the best unmarried women of the Quraysh. When Allah the Exalted sent down in His Book what He sent down about Zayd ibn Haritha, 'Call them after their true fathers. That is more equitable in the sight of Allah. If you do not know who their fathers were then they are your brothers in the deen and your mawali,' (Sura 33 ayat 5) people in this position were traced back to their fathers. When the father was not known, they were traced to their mawla.

    "Sahla bint Suhayl who was the wife of Abu Hudhayfa, and one of the tribe of Amr ibn Luayy, came to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said, 'Messenger of Allah! We think of Salim as a son and he comes in to see me while I am uncovered. We only have one room, so what do you think about the situation?' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'Give him five drinks of your milk and he will be mahram by it.' She then saw him as a foster son. A'isha umm al-muminin took that as a precedent for whatever men she wanted to be able to come to see her. She ordered her sister, Umm Kulthum bint Abi Bakr as-Siddiq and the daughters of her brother to give milk to whichever men she wanted to be able to come in to see her. The rest of the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, refused to let anyone come in to them by such nursing. They said, 'No! By Allah! We think that what the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered Sahla bint Suhayl to do was only an indulgence concerning the nursing of Salim alone. No! By Allah! No one will come in upon us by such nursing!'

    "This is what the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, thought about the suckling of an older person."

It is hard to wear that kind of veil, and I don't even show my eyes. The other day I went outside with only khimar(those big black things you look like a ghost in) and I didn't wear niqaab over my face. I thought I was going to feel free, but I didn't. Maybe I will in some time. People are calling me bad things, they are sometimes violent, and threatening towards me. As my username implies I want to stop all this, I just don't know how. I know my husband will be hurt. But I cant live like this. I don't believe in it.
I understand that sis. May Allah give the best solution.

And wisdom can be found at the back of the milk cartons too
Absolutely agree!

Introduce Yourself / Re: My situation.
« on: January 17, 2007, 07:25:52 PM »
Salaam sister wannabefree, all,
Salaam to all of you!

The salaafi-sect includes people who can't do anything, can't even have there own opinion in a question, without first checking what ulema says about it...
I am wondering why they cannot even think that whom they call ulama are also human beings. Even worse when those ulama give the explanations from hadiths, which we all know are corrupted and not authentic.

They follow men like Ibn Baz, Ibn Uthaymeen, Madkhali and al-Albani and are often called "wahabis"(for following Muhammad ibn ?Abdul-Wahh?b from Saudiarabia) by those who don't agree with the salaafipath. Salaafiyun are following EVERY SINGLE DETAIL from sunnah.
If we want to be honest, they don't follow every single detail from hadiths. They do cherrypick from hadiths.

For examples:

Shahih Muslim Book 016, Number 4130:

    Anas b. Malik reported that some people belonging (to the tribe) of 'Uraina came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) at Medina, but they found its climate uncogenial. So Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to them: If you so like, you may go to the camels of Sadaqa and drink their milk and urine. They did so and were all right. They then fell upon the shepherds and killed them and turned apostates from Islam and drove off the camels of the Prophet (may peace be upon him). This news reached Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and he sent (people) on their track and they were (brought) and handed over to him. He (the Holy Prophet) got their hands cut off, and their feet, and put out their eyes, and threw them on the stony ground until they died.

I have never seen salafy drink camel's urine.

Regarding such cherrypicking from books other than quran:

68:35 Should We treat the ones who surrendered the same as those who are criminals?
68:36 What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
68:37 Or do you have another book which you study?
68:38 In it, you can find what you wish?
68:39 Or do you have an oath from Us, extending until the Day of Resurrection, that you can judge as you please?
68:40 Ask them: "Who of them will make such a claim?"

My husband is a good man really but I find it very boring that he never ever can have his own opinion. But I am "working" on him ;)

Introduce Yourself / Re: My situation.
« on: January 17, 2007, 07:07:36 PM »
Salamun 'alaykum sister Wannabefree,


as-salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaah

I don't have an identity anymore because I am wearing full hidjaab, even over my face.
In Germany, there are also salafis. I remember one salafy woman wearing full hijab and only her eyes can be seen. Everybody was looking at her. Some also screamed at her. I believe such a situation must be extremely hard for every single salafy woman. I don't know how about you sis ...I would like to hear some stories if you don't mind.

I believe in Allaah subhana wa ta'ala and I worship Him, and Him only. I think there is some wisdom to be found in the sunnah, but its not something that should be lived after as Gods laws.
In Bible there is also wisdom.

I have absolutely no idea how to get out practically from this current situation of mine, but i am glad to have found a forum with similar thinking as my own. Even though I don't reject sunnah completely.
I believe hadiths are valuable as historical reports. The problem with salafs, sunnis, and shias is they take hadiths as divine revelations just like quran.

Maybe I wont write and get in discussions here right now, but I will read and try to learn something.
May Allah increase our knowledge sis.

Introduce Yourself / Re: My Story - part 2.
« on: January 09, 2007, 06:14:24 AM »
Salam brother Alen,
Why can't i die, since i have no purpose here?
I don't work (NOT BY CHOICE!), i don't have a wife and kids, i got nothing that connects me to Slovenia, this world and after my death, there will be no evidence that i existed, so i ask again: what is the purpose of my existance, if any?
51:56 I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to serve Me.

2:155 And We will test you with some fear and hunger, and a shortage in money and lives and fruits. And give good news to those who are patient.

The God Most Powerful knows.
The only thing standing between wishing for death and wishing for good health is the fact that i have found my soulmate but why cannot i be with her?
25:74 And those who Say: "Our Lord, grant us from our mates and our progeny what will be the comfort of our eyes, and make us role models the righteous."
25:75 These will be rewarded with a dwelling for what they have been patient for, and they will find in it a greeting and peace.

Introduce Yourself / Re: I am here! Drum rolls please..
« on: January 05, 2007, 04:03:58 AM »
Salaam sikes,


What I am trying to say is that some people are subconsciously God Alone, yet don't realise it etc.

I agree sikes ...

Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings - I am VERY new
« on: January 04, 2007, 06:55:41 PM »
Salaam Haneen,
Last thing what I couldnt accept was music-ban.If I asked- why? he could nt give satisfied ansver.
Music ban is based on the following hadith:

Shahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v:

    Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari:

    that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."

And our reply should be ...

10:59 Say, "Did you note how GOD sends down to you all kinds of provisions, then you render some of them unlawful, and some lawful?" Say, "Did GOD give you permission to do this? Or, do you fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD?"

Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings - I am VERY new
« on: January 04, 2007, 06:41:21 PM »
Salaam Haneen,
I ma new here.I thank God who bring me from the darkness to the light.About my story :
I become sunni moslem almost 2 years ago.Then I was reading Quran,everything was fine,I liked Islam so much.But then I got married just few months later,mu husband start introduse me hadiits.I couldnt accept many things.Last thing what I couldnt accept was music-ban.If I asked- why? he could nt give satisfied ansver.I this summer I finded m from estonia, but I am living in Ireland.So if there is somebody around I m glad to meet.


Peace Tay,
I was speaking of the inner turmoil resulting from not wanting to ignore the ayat, but not (really)wanting to implement them either. Hence the "future society" explanation.
Sorry I missunderstood your post.

I don't know whether your feeling of most people is true or not, but I myself don't feel such inner turmoil, which is not wanting to ignore but not wanting to implement either. For me, when God decrees laws, then I believe I have no choice but to submit to His laws which means I cannot ignore the laws or cherrypick them. Claiming to believe but not wanting to implement is a sign that one doesn't really believe, right?

How these laws are implemented is ANOTHER discussion. For example lashing, I agree with Zenje that it is not for an individual to prosecute (indeed as far as I know nobody in this forum ever claims that such laws is for individual to prosecute).

I don't think we may ignore or cherry-pick, I think we should look for deeper meanings and/or put the guidance in it's rightful place and time.

This is what Jankren wrote
Quote from: jankren
So I begin to think maybe it is better for all religions to follow similar step by adopting the cherrypicking concept. You know for example in Islam I think we should just literally ignore the 'behind the time' laws such as lashes, polygamy, cutting of hands, special taxes and instead focusing on more important aspects such as charity, promotion of the Oneness of God, caring for orphans, brotherhood and many other things.

And this is what you wrote thereafter
Quote from: Tay
I've been thinking along the same lines. I believe it has to do with whether one believes in the need or prescription of an islamic state based on the jurisprudence of the qur'an. I do not think it's necessary, nor even plausible. Promotion of the positives, as you expressed, I believe, is much more important, and much more likely to bring about change.

That is exactly what I totally disagree.

No, it tells me what's really important in God's "eyes". If those 3 simple, yet paramount rules are all one needs to avoid fear and grief, then everything else is details, and not nearly as important.

24:2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

Are you saying that the above verse is "not necessary", "not even plausible", and "not nearly as important"?

2:285 The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

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