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Messages - mquran

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Beautiful
« on: October 02, 2003, 01:35:51 PM »
Quote from: "five-oh"
Those ayas are no doubt beautiful. I think I'm beginning to understand a little more what the Quran-only position is about. But I hope you understand Tony, that this is completely different from what others of your cult argue. (ie Layth and many others).

But that can't be all of the Quran-only position. The Quran has mentioned much more. That leads to my next question:

What should the relationship be of a Quran-only person to Muhammad (peace be upon him)?

Firstly, we're not a 'cult' unless you think 1.2 billion sunnis actually practise thier religion.

Everyone in the world has a right to interpret the Quraan and we have asserted this right.

For your question, my answer is this :

Muhammad ibn Abdullah of history is said to have brought al-quraan. His commands as ar-rasool has been enshrined in al-quraan itself.  Other than that, nothing of his history should be canonised as articles of al-islaam.

General Issues / Questions / When anti-Semites use the Qur'an to hate
« on: October 02, 2003, 01:21:08 PM »
Salaamun alaikum,

Sometimes, you will learn a good lesson from the hatefuls of them all ;-) Remember how God says in the Qur'an they plot and God plots.

I have no doubt that every hadith/event in my life contains a lesson. So gotta keep the ol eyes open wide.

Al-Bait is not a stone nor is it a building. It is a location... where God somehow chose to forgive man. In the Qur'an and Psalms, it is mentioned Becca/Bakkah as God's holy *shrine.* It is the first *location*/bait pointed for humans (adam)... and since then; Ishmael was saved on that location, Abraham and Ishmael rebuilt a building on it, God saves the children of Kedar through it, Muhammad purified it from gods, et cetera.

If it's a location, its definitely not mecca at this stage. Allah said 'wajaalna al-bait MATHABATAN LINAAS WA AMNAA'. Therefore, al-bait has to be an establishing point for MANKIND and a safe place. Is mecca a safe place ?
More vitally, is it open for mankind or only for 'muslims' by name ?

Am just curious, what is your understanding of al-bait now? (by the way, most Shi'as/Sunnis think the word "al-bait" actually refers to people lol)

You're thinking of ahlul bait, I think for the case of Sunnis and Shias. AL-bait is the operational system of ad-deen in the world, as exemplified by Ibrahim. It doesn't exist in totality in the world at present.

As far as I know, "allatheena haaduu" literally means; those who became Jewish. But it doesn't matter because in 4:46, the word "min" is injected, which then should assure the reader that it is not all.

The word 'haadu' has more than a little resembelance to the word 'hudaa', 'muhtadi' etc. Lets interpret the Quraan via the Quraan, not via external concepts.

Cheers :cool:[/quote]

General Issues / Questions / When anti-Semites use the Qur'an to hate
« on: October 01, 2003, 10:08:26 PM »
Salaamun alaikum Afdhere,

Yeah, it's me again. Hope you don't mind.

The author of Arab Conspiracies managed to help me figure out one very vital element in al-quraan : the concept of al-bait. For years , I was defending the notion that it was a stone house in mecca, not actually reading the quran itself and seeing its context.

Indeed, the word in 9/97 is 'al-aa'raabu' not 'arab'. The word 'al-aa'raabu' is used in opposition to ahl-al-madina in 9/120, which means that they are people who have not become members of the 'deen'-based polity.

How about the word 'haadu', brother ? Do you think it's fairly translated into 'jew'. Look at 4/46. Who do you say changes words from thier contexts in the world ? Ask people who quote 59/7 and say it validates hadith and you'll get the answer.

General Issues / Questions / TO BE "QUR-AN ONLY", MEANS NO RITUAL PRAYER..
« on: September 30, 2003, 10:19:16 PM »
Salaamun alaikum DQ,

think this Allah's way of reminding us to be cognizant of our "committments" from the time we wake until the time we retire for the day. The translation may not be the best either, regardless, if there were a ritual prayer, then Allah would have provided the details clearly, especially that, He mentions the word salaa over 100 times!

The act of establishing as-salaat will act as a reminder/zikr, I agree.

General Issues / Questions / TO BE "QUR-AN ONLY", MEANS NO RITUAL PRAYER..
« on: September 30, 2003, 10:09:08 PM »
Salaamun alaikum all,

Aaron wrote :read his other posts, he also thinks that Salat is only commitments. do you agree with him there?

remember, the reading at dawn is if you read Quran every day at dawn, it can still be called a ritual.

Salat = commitments still misses with me. dhulqarnain, i thought you were gonna get the info for me on where aidid came up with the commitments thing?

i still like link the best, that meaning goes farther with me than commitments does, that's for sure.

No, for one thing, I'm not in favour of one word translations because they fail to cover the whole meaning. As-salaat imho, is an umbrella concept which includes committment, focus, support. In the case of 9/11, as-salaat denotes commitments. However, for 'alldhina aamanu'/ppl moving to attain imaan' , as-salaat is a twice daily exercise which includes reading inspiring passages from al-quraan, focussing oneself on Allah and the covenant, and the development of Allah's attributes.

General Issues / Questions / TO BE "QUR-AN ONLY", MEANS NO RITUAL PRAYER..
« on: September 30, 2003, 01:20:40 PM »
Salaamun alaikum,

I think DQ is saying that the traditionally known ritual doesn't exist as far as the Quraan is concerned. I fully agree with him.

In fact, I would add this. As-salaat is a powerful concept when understood from a Quranic perspective. When turned into that ritual, the ideology of al-islaam loses a vital concept.

General Issues / Questions / I am in way over my head!
« on: September 30, 2003, 01:17:32 PM »
Salaamun alaikum Roshan and Neil,

to my mind, as long as you know how to read Arabic letterings, the rest comes with less difficulty.

Get this collection if you can :

Study NobleQur'anWord-For-Word-Vol.1-3

from this site :

Pore over this for 6 months and I gurantee you, you will able to understand the Quraan as its recited.

Also, get a concordance of the Quraan, the one by Hanna Kassis is excellent. Helps you see how words are used.


General Issues / Questions / Islam, simple as 1-2-3
« on: September 28, 2003, 10:11:42 PM »
Quote from: "afdhere"
And, Mquran,

I'm definitely committed to the equal evolution for all mankind. And anyone who wants to allow the choice for the mankind to choose their details, that is certainly my brother :)

I think you are, too. Well like I said, our differences are minute from the dimension of goal orientation.

General Issues / Questions / Islam, simple as 1-2-3
« on: September 28, 2003, 11:46:50 AM »
Have you been reading this place? People are casting others as nuts because based on crappy details... that change... as the day goes on  

I think we pretty much know the Wahabbis are extremists. It is just that I hope there are people here who are sincerely interested in being Muslims rather than follow around details  

Heheh, after all the discussion we have online, I think in real life, we would have much information to exchange.

As I said, as long as ur committed to the evolution of mankind, you are my brother in deen.

As for nasara being 'nazarenes', Layth, I think that's not accurate. Isaa asked his followers 'who will be my ANSAAR towards Allah', they replied 'we are ANSAAR Allah'. Ansaar is simply helper.

General Issues / Questions / Islam, simple as 1-2-3
« on: September 28, 2003, 09:51:16 AM »
Easy, eh? Why complicate things by going over stupid details?

you're asking the wrong people here. Go ask the Wahabis that. They say
you'll end up in hell if your PANT CUFFS ride down BELOW YOUR ANKLE.   People who follow only the Quraan usually are simple in thier approach.

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