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Messages - Jane

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The words of God are infallible

Our understanding of the words of God is NOT infallible

When they were sent down yes. Now they have all been corrupted. The Qur'an is corrupted just like the Torah. It's wishful thinking to claim it was preserved over 1,400 years. We will probably never know the true words of God. We can read the scriptures but we must maintain an open mind and rely on our conscience to lead the way.

In the Qur'an it says God is compassionate to those who devote their lives to serving God unfortunately it doesn't go into details as to how that's different from ordinary belief.

Off-Topic / Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« on: July 13, 2019, 05:32:57 AM »

When people think this is acceptable you know hijab culture has become toxic. Children deserve the right to grow up feeling the sun on their head and wind through their hair. What they choose to wear as an adult is up to them.

God will not let the Saudis get away with this. Even if everyone else does.

Off-Topic / Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« on: July 12, 2019, 02:10:58 AM »
Ultrasounds damage tissue. It's Radiation. Don't get them. If you have a health problem intermittent fast or total fast until it gets better. I just completed a 5 day dry fast. I can feel old injuries that I received 20 years ago that never fully healed start to heal some more. Aiming for a 7 day dry fast soon, hopefully that will ramp it up even more God-willing.

Otherwise I agree with everything else you wrote. I got harassed as a 16 year old whilst on holiday in Egypt in 2001; it was January and I had my limbs completely covered but the combination of being a foreign woman and not covering my head somehow made me a target for some older boys who spotted me. Never experienced anything like that in the West.

A lot of Qur'an-Aloners seem to be holding on to the Sunni belief that the Qur'an has been divinely preserved because it is special. Some Sunnis believe the Qur'an itself has magic powers! It's just silliness.

The Qur'an as revealed to Muhammad (if that really was his real name 'cause we don't actually know) was perfect but what we've got now is nowhere near the same thing. Believers want to know God's word so it's not to be abandoned I think but we should be focusing on working out which parts of it are original and which have been added in. I personally suspect Muhammad's night journey and Laylat Al Qadr are additions as they make no sense, don't fit with the Shar Ramadan story of when the Qur'an was revealed AND they are very similar to pre-Muhammad pagan beliefs. It's important we get to the bottom of how much the Qur'an has been corrupted.

Traditional Muslims could assist with this but instead are resisting by clinging to the belief that the Qur'an is perfect and unchanged. Saying it's the translations that are wrong but the original Arabic is perfect is bizarre since there are 5 different Qur'an versions used I believe and the Arabic text differs between them. Which one of these is the real one then?? You can see why Neptin is frustrated.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Bakka/Mecca
« on: July 02, 2019, 06:04:39 AM »

I agree Islam is The Faith and what is taught is not.

I've already been comparing the different possible Meccas.

I'm 99% convinced Valley Of Bacca is modern day Petra. Jerusalem is as nonsensical as Mecca, S.A. IMO.

Abraham was never hanging around in the vast Arabian desert never mind further than that. I think the southeast Arabia is the real Holy Land theory is just wishful thinking IMO. The Irish used to believe they were the lost tribes of Israel. The Holy Land is the Fertile Crescent. Plus maybe Medina.

Mecca cannot be Jerusalem though. Abraham was in Sumer then in Canaan and sent Ishmael to Bacca (Petra). The Qur'an says Ishmael's descendants grew up in an uncultivated valley so Muhammad can't have come from Jerusalem or anywhere near it.

Only made it to 1:26 in the video before I lost the will to live. The traditionalist's arguments are always the same: empty and boring.

Let people hang on to their beliefs what does it matter. Your own personal awareness of God is what matters.

Hi I don't think you're alone.  :)

I believe in the Qur'an but I don't believe it's infallible and the true word of God, not the current version we have on earth. I think the real scripture (Torah, Injeel and Qur'an) are all with God which is what it means when it says in the Qur'an "We will surely preserve the Revelations" but the versions we have on earth are corrupted.

It's nothing but arrogance of Muslims to declare that earlier scriptures have been corrupted but say the Qur'an has not. We're not supposed to make distinction between the messengers so why argue that God Himself did by presrving the later scripture but not the earlier? 'Qur'an-Alone Muslims' or 'Qur'anists' need to be careful not to turn the Qur'an into another idol by considering it to be perfect. I was guilty of that for many years actually.

It's nowhere near perfect. The sura order has been changed messing up the flow. The sura headings and Bismillah appear to be additions. As do Suras 1, 113 and 114 as they are apparently Du'a prayers that were added in. There's significant cross-over between the Qur'an and the Zoroastrian scriptures that needs investigation IMO.

We know that Caliph Uthman created the Qur'an as we know it, changing the order and destroying what didn't fit with his version. Since he was murdered I think that's a sign from God that He was angry with that. I think the original Qur'an as memorised by Muhammad will never be known again unfortunately.

I study the Old Testament inc. the Psalms and the Qur'an (never the New Testament which is mostly pro-Roman propaganda IMO) and try and work out from them what God wants us to understand; plus whatever I can get from trying to be aware of God to try and work out how God wants us to live.

I would call myself a Monotheist not a Muslim. Islam is a way of life that is mostly idol worship IMO. It doesn't describe me.  I still like talking and debating with Muslims, Qur'an-Alone or Regular, from time to time (although traditionalists tire my patience pretty quick). >:(

Maybe you could adopt a similar path?

General Issues / Questions / Re: Bakka/Mecca
« on: June 30, 2019, 12:19:47 PM »
I have been researching Dan Gibson's theory about Petra and Mecca. Could it be possible that the Mecca of today is not the Mecca of the Prophet (S) and the Mecca mentioned in the Qur'an? If Mecca was such a important and significant city, how come it doesn't appear on any maps until the 7th or 8th centuries respectively?

I just came across Dan Gibson's YouTube channel yesterday and have watched 2/3 of his videos already. I am practically speechless I am so shocked at what he's revealed. I went from thinking Sam Gerrans was crazy for making a video saying Muhammad was not from Mecca to watching Dan's work to 100% believing the Petra is the real Bacca theory in less than 24hrs. I'm still kind of in shock actually. Just how much have we been lied to???

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