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Messages - The_Chimp

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561
Prophets and Messengers / Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« on: May 23, 2013, 01:58:17 PM »
Salaamun alayka,

I can only find ayaats like this:
12:02 Inna anzalnahu quranan AAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloona
I never saw ayaats like this:
- Inna anzalnahu quranan AAarabiyyan illa ismu Ibrahim laAAallakum taAAqiloona

Salaam,
Bender

Hi,

Please learn basics of Arabic and have some humility to ask if unsure rather than dictate to people.

Ibrahim is name of Hebrew origin and not of Arabic. However the name is Arabicised.  For example the name Benjamin is Anglicised version of the Hebrew name Ben Yamin - which in Arabic is Binyameen.

In Arabic foreign names are classed as Ghayr Munsarrif [ Mamnu al-Sarf] - which means they do not have Tanween.

562
Prophets and Messengers / Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« on: May 23, 2013, 01:53:13 PM »
Quote
I understand that some might think this. But that is absolutely not true. The Mohammed mentioned in The Quran is nothing to be ashamed of  :nope:
But I can not proof from The Quran that he was  the transmitter of the Quran  :( And as long as no body can proof this I have every option open.
And 1 of the many options is that there was a man who's proper name was Mohammed and that he was the first person who got The Quran.

Quran does prove [it is not 'proof'] that a person named Muhammad received the Quran. I am sorry to say, your whole basis is illogical. As a Sunni, I am thinking how blessed I am. About 1500 years history doesn't disappear like that. Your dilemma is evidence as to why the "Quran only" position is so illogical and leads to chaos.

I have given you two verse that are pretty explicit:


Muhammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him. So if he was to die or be killed, would you turn back on your heels [to unbelief]? And he who turns back on his heels will never harm Allah at all; but Allah will reward the grateful.

Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

There is no confusion.

563
Prophets and Messengers / Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« on: May 23, 2013, 01:46:15 PM »
Salaamun alayka,

And what exactly does this proof?

Salaam,
Bender

It disproves this:

"The only thing I know at the moment is that from my study and with what Allah showed me, Mohammed of 48:29 can never be a name of a person, probably it is something like a title."

564
Prophets and Messengers / Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« on: May 23, 2013, 01:43:57 PM »
Salaamun alayka,

Thank you for mentioning those verses and alhamdu to The One who  has showed me those ayaats long time ago  :hail

Brother if there is something which you can not comprehend it does not mean that I speak of ignorance.
Maybe I have have knowledge that has not reached you yet.
And even if I am wrong then it's not because of ignorance but because I am always in learning phase.
Allah never called Ibrahim ignorant when he searched for Him even when he was wrong. No Allah says Ibrahim was not of almushrikeen.

Anyways, maybe you can look again at one verse before every ayaat you mentioned.
I will give you the first one:
26:105  كَذَّبَتْ قَوْمُ نُوحٍ الْمُرْسَلِينَ
As you can see Almurasleena is plural. How is that possible? So who are those " الْمُرْسَلِينَ " when we know that only Nuh was sent.

Same goes for every ayaat you mentioned, inshaAllah it will be more clear for you.

Furthermore I want to state that you can study The Quran only in 1 way and that is with the help of Allah.
Grammar books and other sources besides Allah will only confuse you.

Salaam and may Allah increase our knowledge
Bender

Hi,

Saying that Grammar books are there for confusion is stupidity. It is Allah who has constrained us to language and that is why other sources are necessary. Often when people say this:

" I want to state that you can study The Quran only in 1 way and that is with the help of Allah. " - it tends to be meaningless cop-outs. Everything happens because of the almighty. But when you are ill, you still head for the doctor.

As to the Mursileen being plural, then those are the Prophets before Noah.

565
Hi Scribbler,

Quote
Don't the Sunni people claim that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was illiterate?

Not really - we say he was unlettered - in other words not taught by the formal education system of the time.

Quote
Anyway, my point is, these are the things that Sunni and Shia people claim from their ahadith which are full of contradictions with each other. So for me, there is no way any person with a rational mind can fully trust the compilations of their so-called Sahih Bukhari and Muslim, as relying on them is not a matter of joke, but to me is like putting your paradise on the line.

This is very simplistic. Hadith are not meant to be scripture equal to the Quran. They are also Muslim History, that shows how Islam was practised in the early era. Also - there is a complete system behind Hadith - it is not enough to say:

" these are the things that Sunni and Shia people claim from their ahadith which are full of contradictions with each other."

Which in this context doesn't mean much. Hadith is history, and History is no joke. Quran itself is preserved in/by Hadith.  How else do we know of it.

566
Quote
Still waiting for anyone to disagree with me that the story of Lot is allegorical, that it doesnt include homosexuality but a reference to men seeking men in lust, that there are numerous behaviours that makes Allah destroy communities, behaviours that are practiced today in muslim communities and the fact that Allah tells prophet Muhammed, "our" prophet, to forgive and ignore if he should ever encounter a community such as Lot's or Noah's

Hi,

I disagree with you. Story of Lot is not allegorical. I have read your past posts, however, your reasons why you think this story is allegorical are not clear.

567
Quote
The refuters of Hadith cannot prove  the Quran to be the words of Allah  without the Hadith.

Hi,

I am a Sunni Muslim. The above is not far-fetched. And neither is it easily provable by Googling. The current format and the arrangement of the Quran is by Hadith.

To me, claiming whole history of Islam is completely wrong and only an [comparatively] extremely small number of people nowadays have the truth seems to be very wrong. Yes, in the past there have been small sects of various Hadith rejecters, but they too have been really small in number.

Hence, to claim that the people who transmitted the Quran until now were [virtually] all misguided seems to be a nonsensical proposition. After all, it is through them Quran until this had been protected and long it will continue.

568
Salaamun A3laika Mazhar,

I was expecting someone will come up with this aayat.

15:87 وَ لَقَدۡ اٰتَیۡنٰکَ سَبۡعًا مِّنَ الۡمَثَانِیۡ وَ الۡقُرۡاٰنَ الۡعَظِیۡمَ
15:87 And We have certainly given you, seven of the often repeated and the great Qur'an.

Highlighted is to show what this aayat says. Aataina is not referring to alQuraan alA3zeem, but it is only referring to 7 of the often repeated. Why aataina is missing before alQuraan alA3zeem. This same structure can be found in 3:3.

3:3 نَزَّلَ عَلَیۡکَ الۡکِتٰبَ بِالۡحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَیۡنَ یَدَیۡہِ وَ اَنۡزَلَ التَّوۡرٰىۃَ وَ الۡاِنۡجِیۡلَ
3:3 He has sent down upon you, the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Tawraat and the Injeel.

Here again Injeel is not revealed, and anzala is referring only to Tawraat. Because there is no other aayat to support that alInjeel was revealed, but you will find some aayaat confirming Tawraat was revealed. As you clearly see that anzala is missing before alInjeel. Another example is in 4:59.

4:59 یٰۤاَیُّہَا الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡۤا اَطِیۡعُوا اللّٰہَ وَ اَطِیۡعُوا الرَّسُوۡلَ وَ اُولِی الۡاَمۡرِ مِنۡکُمۡ ۚ فَاِنۡ تَنَازَعۡتُمۡ فِیۡ شَیۡءٍ فَرُدُّوۡہُ اِلَی اللّٰہِ وَ الرَّسُوۡلِ اِنۡ کُنۡتُمۡ تُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ بِاللّٰہِ وَ الۡیَوۡمِ الۡاٰخِرِ ؕ ذٰلِکَ خَیۡرٌ وَّ اَحۡسَنُ تَاۡوِیۡلًا
4:59 O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best and best in result.

Please note that the word atiy3oo is used before the word 'Allah' and before the word 'alRasool' but atiy3oo is missing before the words 'those in authority among you'. This means, we are not asked to atiy3oo [obey] those who are in authority among you, but they also have to obey Allah and obey alRasool.

Similarly you can clearly find difference between 3:32 and 5:92.

3:32 قُلۡ اَطِیۡعُوا اللّٰہَ وَ الرَّسُوۡلَ ۚ فَاِنۡ تَوَلَّوۡا فَاِنَّ اللّٰہَ لَا یُحِبُّ الۡکٰفِرِیۡنَ
3:32 Say, "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away - then indeed, Allah does not like the disbelievers.

5:92 وَ اَطِیۡعُوا اللّٰہَ وَ اَطِیۡعُوا الرَّسُوۡلَ وَ احۡذَرُوۡا ۚ فَاِنۡ تَوَلَّیۡتُمۡ فَاعۡلَمُوۡۤا اَنَّمَا عَلٰی رَسُوۡلِنَا الۡبَلٰغُ الۡمُبِیۡنُ
5:92 And obey Allah and obey the Messenger and beware. And if you turn away ? then know that upon Our Messenger is only clear notification.

This is a clear difference, in 3:32 atiy3oo is missing before alRasool. Once we understand this pattern of alQuraan, you will understand that aataiyna is not referring to alQuraan alA3zeem in 15:87. If not, then there must be some other aayaat which will clarify that alQuraan was given and I don't find any. Please share if you find.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan

Hi,

I have read many of your posts mmKhan - I get the feeling your understanding of Arabic is very weak. This is incorrect:

Here again Injeel is not revealed, and anzala is referring only to Tawraat. Because there is no other aayat to support that alInjeel was revealed, but you will find some aayaat confirming Tawraat was revealed. As you clearly see that anzala is missing before alInjeel. Another example is in 4:59.

In Arabic if the Verb is mentioned before then it takes singular form, even if the the Subject is plural. Here the verb applies to both Toran and Injeel.

You also say:

"اِذۡ is used for past in alQuraan.
اِذَا is used for present and future in alQuraan."

But that is not correct. Iz is not just used for past tense - see verse 3:124.

569
Prophets and Messengers / Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« on: May 22, 2013, 06:04:44 PM »
Salaamun alayka,

May I ask how you acknowledged this, because till today I have not seen a single person who has proofed this with only Quran verses.

Salaam,
Bender

There are many verses which provide proof. 3:144

Muhammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him. So if he was to die or be killed, would you turn back on your heels [to unbelief]? And he who turns back on his heels will never harm Allah at all; but Allah will reward the grateful.

Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

570
Prophets and Messengers / Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« on: May 22, 2013, 05:56:38 PM »
Dear Bender,

In Arabic language All PERSONAL MASCULINE NOUNS end with ?THZAMMAH TANWIN?, which pronounces ?UN?. It is a rule of the language. This ending can change to other forms depending on the structure of the sentence, but the noun will still remain a noun. It does not change to anything else like where you guys out of ignorance think it is a ?CHARACTER?. See the verses below as examples.

BTW; the names in the verses below are all PROPER nouns.

26:106 إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ نُوحٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:124  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ هُودٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:142  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ صَـٰلِحٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:161  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ لُوطٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:177  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ شُعَيۡبٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ


Peace,
Khalil

Hi,

Not all names end in Tanween - non Arabic names such as Ibrahim do not.

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